Embarrassing crowd

[mu_hilltopper]

The answer to that one is simple, TGA.  5-packs are in the upper bowl.  Season tickets (for a lot of us) are in the lower bowl.     I know some sing the praises of being in the upper deck .. but I have no love for watching a game in the rafters.

And indeed, it's not hard to get to the BC .. from the final buzzer to my house it's under 25 minutes.  Regardless, it's a factor in the adventure of a 2 hour basketball game.

Every game, every seat has a value to its owner, and that's different for every person.  Sometimes they go, sometimes they don't.  Fatigue is just one possible reason on the list of many.

[Hoopaloop]

Isn't that part of the discussion whether to renew a season ticket or not? If it gets to be a drain by February, why go through with that stress and/or fatigue? Just buy a five pack and few extra games that better fit the schedule.

It's easy for those who go every game to say it could be fatigue. It's easy for those who can't go to every game to say fatigue is bullcrap. I could see both sides but, in the end, we're talking about getting in and out of Milwaukee, not Los Angeles. It may be the easiest city I've ever encountered with regard to traveling "downtown".

Probably better off going through Stub Hub and selecting good seats for only the games you want.  The 5 packs put you in the upper deck.  The Stub Hub route lets you go to the games you want and sit with the hairy wet cats in the lower bowl.  Read an article months ago that stated a number of pro teams are having trouble with season ticket sales because of the Stub Hub impact.  Why pay for a whole season to get the crud games when you can still get good seats at a lower price through Stub Hub.  The difference with college fans is that they may want to help out their college because the revenue goes to the Athletic Department, but that won't hold true for all purchasers, especially in an economy as crappy as ours where value to cost is key.

[The Equalizer]

... and here is the thread about the crowd for the February 17, 2009 Seton Hall game ..

Title: Last Night's Student Section = Weak Sauce
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=12690.0

Some excerpts:

You have a top 10-15 team, playing their 3rd to last home game of the year, against a quality opponent that has been playing well as of late...and you guys drop the ball.  Bottom level wasn't even completely full, we saw whole rows of the section behind the band open, and there were maybe 100 scattered in the first few rows of the upper deck.  You can't use midterms as an excuse as they are two weeks away.

Very disappointing.  I expect nothing short of chaos next Wednesday.  You need to go and redeem yourselves.

Clearly, we gotta stop the announcement about the "Best Student Section in the Country" before games, after showings like last night.  

I have to agree with this thread.  Those students that were there did a nice job....but where was everyone else?!  I don't get it.  Top 10 team, 3rd to last opportunity to watch an amazing group of seniors and there were barely any students in the upper deck....baffling.

honestly?....I'd cut the student section by 1500 seats.

Just pathetic, what exactly would it take to get the students all there?  as stated already, top ten team, three games left!  They are so predictable, of course next week its a big name top rated team so they will all show up.  Well last nights game was important as well.  How many students have night classes, just pathetic!


Marquette students ain't what they use to be. They worry way to much about grades now. They don't even realize that these are the best years of their lives and be able to get hammered and root for your hoops team on a Tuesday night.

Agreed.  The students are great....the ones that are there always bring it.  I don't buy the "we Marquette students have other things to do argument."  Really...like what?  Please don't tell me studying...it's a Tuesday night in February...it's 3 hours out of your day.  I understand not wanting to miss a class, but indifference or hanging out on your couch is not a good excuse.  This school hangs its hat on basketball, this team is top 10 and there's 3 frickin home games left for this group...get to the Bradley Center!  Ugh.

---------------

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Literally every weekday game back to 2008 has a thread whining about the crowd.  And each one is writiten as if it is a total surprise and giving us some new never heard information.

When you drop from 18,700 seats sold to 14,800, you've already flushed out 4,000 of the indifferent.  If you still have an issue with no-shows at the lower attendance, it might be different than the issue you had in 2009.  That's a nearly 20% drop for a similar type game, from a similar-quality opponent, mid-week, etc.

All I'm saying is that if I were Larry Williams, I probably wouldn't dismiss the attendance decline with a cavalier "we've always had no-shows" statement. 

[dgies9156]

The answer to that one is simple, TGA.  5-packs are in the upper bowl.  Season tickets (for a lot of us) are in the lower bowl.     I know some sing the praises of being in the upper deck .. but I have no love for watching a game in the rafters.

And indeed, it's not hard to get to the BC .. from the final buzzer to my house it's under 25 minutes.  Regardless, it's a factor in the adventure of a 2 hour basketball game.

Every game, every seat has a value to its owner, and that's different for every person.  Sometimes they go, sometimes they don't.  Fatigue is just one possible reason on the list of many.

I'll admit I bought a five pack this year. I live near the Wisconsin border in Illinois and there's no way my patience or my marriage would last through a set of season tickets.

The five pack seats I have are OK, but except for the Georgetown game, I doubt seriously I couldn't just buy virtually identical seats at mid-court upper deck on the day of the game. They aren't really good seats, though I like being in the arena and watching the game in person.

This, quite frankly, is a problem for Marquette. That upper deck is crap for the most part, the result of having luxury suites between the levels. The fans know it and given that Milwaukee probably isn't big enough to generate enough buzz to sell out an 18,000 seat arena every home game, there's always tickets.

That said, I'll admit the ONLY reason I drove up from my office in downtown Chicago was that I had the tickets and I didn't want to waste them.  There's no way I'd go to a Rutgers game, mid-week, if the tickets weren't in a package.

[GOO]

Marquette really has to get more weekend home games.  I have season tickets and made it to only a handful of games.  Can't bring the kids to the weeknight games, and thus, I can only make so many games leaving the wife and kids at home.  Add in the associated game costs, parking, etc, work schedules, and making weeknight games so often isn't practical and is expensive.  Less enjoyment on a weeknight, then a weekend game, for me and a lot more hassle.  Plus, the games are all on TV now.

So, the solution:  Better dates and times.  The Bucks are not flexible, I know, which is sad.  Somehow it would be nice to have some more pull with the BC.   I guess better dates/times is a dream that will not happen. 

I for one will probably only get a couple of season tickets next year instead of buying 4 and giving almost all of them away.  At 36 a pop or so per ticket, the value just isn't there for me anymore.   

How often do we get Saturday night games?  Even Sunday and/or Saturday day games are better...  sorry for the semi-rant. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

If season tickets is too large of a comitment for anyone - please PM me about splitting season tickets next year.

I would love to go to more games and sit in better seats than my 5 packs + individual games tix allow for.

[Tugg Speedman]

When you drop from 18,700 seats sold to 14,800, you've already flushed out 4,000 of the indifferent.  If you still have an issue with no-shows at the lower attendance, it might be different than the issue you had in 2009.  That's a nearly 20% drop for a similar type game, from a similar-quality opponent, mid-week, etc.

All I'm saying is that if I were Larry Williams, I probably wouldn't dismiss the attendance decline with a cavalier "we've always had no-shows" statement. 

18,700 is technically a sell-out (18,600 is a sell-out) for the BC and the 2009 thread read's exactly like this week's thread.  In fact I went and double checked the attendance because I could not believe the comments for a sell-out.  But your right it was a sell-out and this board's comments were the same for a game that drew 4,000 less.  Hence, this board has no credibility when discussing the crowd.  All they see are problems.

[The Equalizer]

I'll offer another reason:  Bradley Center/Game Fatigue.

Even though this year we have fewer BC games, the experience of a Season Ticket Holder over the course of ~20 games can be draining.  (everyone get ready with their tiny violins.)

Figure it's 3 hours per game, we're now entering the 54-57th hour of getting in your car, finding a parking spot, marching to the BC, etc.  Not to mention leaving the BC, getting to your car, fighting to get on the freeway, then forking over $30 to the babysitter for the 19th time.

All for watching MU beat up on Rutgers. 

Just sayin.  My wife and I haven't missed a game in years, and went last night.  But the joy of going to the 1st game versus the 19th game is different.  That could easily explain why there were 5 empty seats in my row last night, usually filled.

I think there are three "elephant in the room" issues:

1.  Lack of compelling personal storylines around local players. People loved to watch Steve Novak or Travis Diener because they were outstanding local players that stayed home.  The Diener family has deep ties in the Wisconsin, and Novak's dad was a coach at Brown Deer, and Steve picked MU over some impressive national programs. 

I don't think there's the same level of interest in Jamil Wilson--certainly not after he went to Oregon for a year, then sat out for a 2nd year.  And Blue just isn't going to generate the same type of love as Diener or Novak. 

2.  Keeping the same core group of players together.  The amigos saw average attendance in conference games grow from 15,450 as frosh to 18,194 as seniors.  Same trend with Mac/Key/Anglavar.  Yeah, you've got a tough job to replace them, but they built excitement season over season over season.  You knew when you had the amgos were coming back, there was already some built-in excitment for the upcoming season.  And near the end (as that 2009 Seton Hall game) you could start to say you have only a few chances left to see 3 of MU's all-time leading scorers.

3.  Under-hyped recruits.  The Amigos were heavily marketed before their first game.  Key/Mac/Anglavar were hpyed as well.  Before the 2009-10 season, MU marketed the #1 recruiting class that containd 3 incoming top 100 recruits and the top player in Wisconsin.  It's just harder to build excitement in advance around the unranked class with Mayo (WV), Anderson (CA) and DWilson (TX). 

I'm sure some purists will argue that none of these issues should matter.  But we're talking about being able to market MU to a broader audience.

[mu_hilltopper]

I would concur with all those points.

[muwarrior69]

Will Burton fill the seats?

[MarsupialMadness]

Tom Crean used to buy all the students Papa John's while waiting in line.  That's the only reason we all went.

[Lennys Tap]

For the real, non agenda driven data on MU attendance see The Trend in Attendance thread started by AnotherMU84.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Tom Crean used to buy all the students Papa John's while waiting in line.  That's the only reason we all went.

I am willing to bet that he did not spend a penny of his own money.

[MarsupialMadness]

I am willing to bet that he did not spend a penny of his own money.

Whether he paid for it or not, it was still a nice gesture. 

It clearly wasn't the reason kids showed up to games, but everybody loved the product he was throwing out back then.  He's basically a one-man marketing department anyway. 

I know everyone around here loves to hate him nowadays, but back in 2005 the man could do no wrong on MU's campus. 

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Whether he paid for it or not, it was still a nice gesture. 

It clearly wasn't the reason kids showed up to games, but everybody loved the product he was throwing out back then.  He's basically a one-man marketing department anyway. 

I know everyone around here loves to hate him nowadays, but back in 2005 the man could do no wrong on MU's campus. 

All I was saying is that Papa John bought those pizzas most likely.

[4everwarriors]

Tom Crean used to buy all the students Papa John's while waiting in line.  That's the only reason we all went.

Gotta figure that was the Athletic Dept. springin' for the 'za. Old tight wad still has the first greenback that flew his way.

[Coleman]

Whether he paid for it or not, it was still a nice gesture. 

It clearly wasn't the reason kids showed up to games, but everybody loved the product he was throwing out back then.  He's basically a one-man marketing department anyway. 

I know everyone around here loves to hate him nowadays, but back in 2005 the man could do no wrong on MU's campus. 

Agreed. Crean got the students pumped up. Did a great job of that. Gave out coffee and donuts to us before the Pitt College Gameday Game in 2007. And as much as some people loathe him now (I'm indifferent), he was loved, at least among students. I'm not saying Buzz doesn't do a good job of this either, but I've been off campus since 2008 and have no way of knowing. I actually like Buzz's genuine humility more, but you can't say Crean wasn't making an effort.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Haven't I heard somewhere here that MU outdraws the Bucks?  Sounds like a positive to me

[MUMac]

Haven't I heard somewhere here that MU outdraws the Bucks?  Sounds like a positive to me

Marquette has more students than the Bucks.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Marquette really has to get more weekend home games. 

Really? We all wish most of the games could be on weekends. That being said, 5 of the 9 BE home games were on the weekend/holiday this season.

[warriorchick]

Really? We all wish most of the games could be on weekends. That being said, 5 of the 9 BE home games were on the weekend/holiday this season.

A dsy game on MLK does not count as a weekend game for us non-government working stiffs.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

I think there are three "elephant in the room" issues:

 People loved to watch Steve Novak or Travis Diener....I don't think there's the same level of interest in Jamil Wilson--certainly not after he went to Oregon for a year, then sat out for a 2nd year.  And Blue just isn't going to generate the same type of love as Diener or Novak. 

I think you may be missing one more elephant in the room.  It's a never-discussed reason that may make the average Marquette fan more likely to root for Diener or Novak versus Wilson or Blue, (even though all four are from Wisconsin).

[Mr. Nielsen]

A dsy game on MLK does not count as a weekend game for us non-government working stiffs.

Thank you for pointing out, in what I already wrote.

[4everwarriors]

I think you may be missing one more elephant in the room.  It's a never-discussed reason that may make the average Marquette fan more likely to root for Diener or Novak versus Wilson or Blue, (even though all four are from Wisconsin).

I don't think that holds water. Frankly, Diener and Novak have performed better than Wilson or Blue, to this point. Plus, those on a Final Four team are going to endear themselves to the faithful for decades to come.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

I thought it didn't need saying, but it might.

The Bradley Center is one of the ten largest Division I basketball arenas by capacity.

1.) Carrier Dome (Syracuse) 34,000
2.) Rupp Arena (Kentucky) 23,000
3.) Marriott Center (BYU) 22,700
4.) KFC Yum! Center (Louisville) 22,090
5.) Dean Smith Center (North Carolina) 21,750
6.) Thompson-Bolling Arena (Tennessee) 21,678
7.) Verizon Center (Georgetown) 20,035
8.) Madison Square Garden (St. John's) 19,979
9.) RBC Center (NC State) 19,722
10.) Bradley Center (Marquette) 18,850

And we still get respectable crowds. Would be easy to get lost in a gym that big.