Wisconsin

[Skatastrophy]

This is all grim talk, but I’m watching Houston.  Early opener economically, Seeing upticks in the hospitals and there were protests.  Probably going to help the country know where the balance point is. 

Texas hitting a 1 day record of infected today & a 5% jump in hospitalizations (4th consecutive daily increase) isn't a great sign.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Texas hitting a 1 day record of infected today & a 5% jump in hospitalizations (4th consecutive daily increase) isn't a great sign.

Numbers are up but plenty of capacity — which is the goal—to deal with the sick.  They want to test this - so we will see. 

[Jockey]

What Covid?

Pack them fools in at your rallies, Bunker Boy.

[JWags85]

What Covid?

Pack them fools in at your rallies, Bunker Boy.

Pretty hypocritical to call out political rallies amidst protests that would be far greater sources of spread don’t you think? It’s not an endorsement of Trump or his BS, but those fighting him have done more to set us back in COVID progress than MAGA crowds would if you really wanna get down to it

[Hards Alumni]

Pretty hypocritical to call out political rallies amidst protests that would be far greater sources of spread don’t you think? It’s not an endorsement of Trump or his BS, but those fighting him have done more to set us back in COVID progress than MAGA crowds would if you really wanna get down to it

Not true.  Protest have been outside and many have masks on.  MAGA rallies are tightly packed, indoors, with likely zero masks being worn.

[MU82]

Wags, while some might disagree (perhaps even you), I believe protests are absolutely necessary. They already are affecting change, perhaps lasting change. They put the spotlight on important issues that we all need to face, no matter how difficult it might be. Like others, I wish some protests hadn't gotten violent, but history very well could record this period of protests as an extremely important time for American progress.

Holding political rallies just to feed a politician's ego - regardless of the name of the politician - is not important and not necessary. It's a choice. No political rally matters, except to the politician holding it. He or she just wants to hear his or her name chanted by the masses. 99.9% of those who attend a rally already have decided who they are voting for, and already have made up their minds on any issues.

So yes, both the protests and any rallies can be super-spreader events for COVID. But I do hope you're not saying they are equal in their relevance to society.

[JWags85]

Wags, while some might disagree (perhaps even you), I believe protests are absolutely necessary. They already are affecting change, perhaps lasting change. They put the spotlight on important issues that we all need to face, no matter how difficult it might be. Like others, I wish some protests hadn't gotten violent, but history very well could record this period of protests as an extremely important time for American progress.

Holding political rallies just to feed a politician's ego - regardless of the name of the politician - is not important and not necessary. It's a choice. No political rally matters, except to the politician holding it. He or she just wants to hear his or her name chanted by the masses. 99.9% of those who attend a rally already have decided who they are voting for, and already have made up their minds on any issues.

So yes, both the protests and any rallies can be super-spreader events for COVID. But I do hope you're not saying they are equal in their relevance to society.

Oh I’m fully in support of the protests and rallies. They are beyond overdue and in many ways an encouraging sign we’ve gotten to at least a partial tipping point. And I have no love for political rallies no matter what candidate or party and can pretty matter of factly say I’d never attend one.

That being said, I was speaking solely to their potential as super spreader events as it relates to COVID.

Not true.  Protest have been outside and many have masks on.  MAGA rallies are tightly packed, indoors, with likely zero masks being worn.

Outdoors sure, but from first party accounts in 3-4 different major cities from people I know, masks have been a mixed bag at best. NYC was the most masked up, makes sense given how strict the city has been with them, but my sister said there was plenty of pulling them down or off to yell or the like. My friends in Chicago said for every person wearing a mask, you had multiple either not wearing one or with it under their chin like a doctor or not being worn as intended to stop spread.

[MU82]

Oh I’m fully in support of the protests and rallies. They are beyond overdue and in many ways an encouraging sign we’ve gotten to at least a partial tipping point. And I have no love for political rallies no matter what candidate or party and can pretty matter of factly say I’d never attend one.

That being said, I was speaking solely to their potential as super spreader events as it relates to COVID.

Agreed.

It will be interesting to see the numbers after the biggest period of protests (which will be soon). Still, it might be difficult to pinpoint that the protests are the source sometimes, because this stretch coincides with a lot of states opening up their economies fully or partially.

I'm guessing that rallies, though definitely super-spreader events, will be less an issue simply because there are fewer of them. We've had hundreds of protests, from sea to shining sea, but there will be only so many big rallies. Like you say, though, rallies are so unnecessary that if even one person gets really sick or dies ... what a needless tragedy that would be,

I am one who wants to follow the science but also knows we have to open things up for the economy. I am not one who thinks we should be having political rallies with COVID still very much an issue. Like you, I am confident in saying I'll never attend one.

[mu03eng]

Wags, while some might disagree (perhaps even you), I believe protests are absolutely necessary. They already are affecting change, perhaps lasting change. They put the spotlight on important issues that we all need to face, no matter how difficult it might be. Like others, I wish some protests hadn't gotten violent, but history very well could record this period of protests as an extremely important time for American progress.

Holding political rallies just to feed a politician's ego - regardless of the name of the politician - is not important and not necessary. It's a choice. No political rally matters, except to the politician holding it. He or she just wants to hear his or her name chanted by the masses. 99.9% of those who attend a rally already have decided who they are voting for, and already have made up their minds on any issues.

So yes, both the protests and any rallies can be super-spreader events for COVID. But I do hope you're not saying they are equal in their relevance to society.

Careful 82, you are skewing dangerously close to "speech for me, not for thee". The difference between the protests and Trump rallies basically boils down to whether a person supports the cause they are for. They are both political in nature, protected speech,  and events that can lead to negative impacts on public health. The "worthiness" of the cause as determined by you and I should have no impact on what its value or privilege to exist has on society.

This isn't a both sides thing or like I'm some MAGA superfan just concerned that we not lose ourselves in our zeal to do the right things.

[MU82]

Careful 82, you are skewing dangerously close to "speech for me, not for thee". The difference between the protests and Trump rallies basically boils down to whether a person supports the cause they are for. They are both political in nature, protected speech,  and events that can lead to negative impacts on public health. The "worthiness" of the cause as determined by you and I should have no impact on what its value or privilege to exist has on society.

This isn't a both sides thing or like I'm some MAGA superfan just concerned that we not lose ourselves in our zeal to do the right things.

Actually, it is a both sides thing - and I think you know I'm not one to throw around "both sides" casually.

I don't think anybody should be holding big political rallies during a global pandemic. Not Biden, not Trump, not any gubernatorial nor congressional nor mayoral candidates, nobody. They are arguably unnecessary even in good times, but certainly not when hospitalization and death rates are still going up in many of the metro areas in which rallies usually are held.

The protests already have helped affect some significant changes, with hopefully much more to come.

Rallies do nothing but get fans chanting names of political candidates they already are going to vote for.

[Hards Alumni]

Outdoors sure, but from first party accounts in 3-4 different major cities from people I know, masks have been a mixed bag at best. NYC was the most masked up, makes sense given how strict the city has been with them, but my sister said there was plenty of pulling them down or off to yell or the like. My friends in Chicago said for every person wearing a mask, you had multiple either not wearing one or with it under their chin like a doctor or not being worn as intended to stop spread.

Being outdoors is much safer than indoors.  But you're right, mask wearing isn't universal.  Better that some do than the zero I expect to see at a MAGA rally.

[MUDPT]

Founded by the Koch brothers, but interesting nonetheless https://www.nber.org/papers/w27322

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Founded by the Koch brothers, but interesting nonetheless https://www.nber.org/papers/w27322

It seems like the authors love million dollar words. 

It’s still early and the paper dense— but are they essentially saying that until we control the virus, normal movement and normal economic activity will not begin?  If that is the case, I wholeheartedly agree.   

Also, I would gather that Stay in place is needed to galvanize the population that there is a crisis.  Once it’s galvanized then the mindset is sufficient to achieve the goals. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What it is saying that the Supreme Court order doesn't look like it caused additional cases, at least a statistically significant amount, because people continued to take precautions and because many local health departments continued to have regulations in place.

[mu03eng]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/06/15/coronavirus-wisconsin-hospitalizations-decrease-174-new-cases/3192475001/

All the data reported here seems to imply they concerns over the crashing into re-open by the Wisconsin SC and probably the protests all leading to an increase of cases turned out to be a nothing burger.

One thing I wish they would report is the percentage of cases where patients have recovered more consistently like this article does. There are 6,197 active, known cases in Milwaukee. So 4.6% of active cases are in the hospital and the percentage of deaths to confirmed cases is 3%.

Obviously, things can take a turn for the worse, but I think it's safe to say that generally Wisconsinites are doing some things right.

[Jockey]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/06/15/coronavirus-wisconsin-hospitalizations-decrease-174-new-cases/3192475001/

All the data reported here seems to imply they concerns over the crashing into re-open by the Wisconsin SC and probably the protests all leading to an increase of cases turned out to be a nothing burger.

One thing I wish they would report is the percentage of cases where patients have recovered more consistently like this article does. There are 6,197 active, known cases in Milwaukee. So 4.6% of active cases are in the hospital and the percentage of deaths to confirmed cases is 3%.

Obviously, things can take a turn for the worse, but I think it's safe to say that generally Wisconsinites are doing some things right.

Huge majority of citizens followed Evers’ directions.

[JWags85]

Huge majority of citizens followed Evers’ directions.

Are you implying the majority of citizens are staying in lockdown or shelter at home and that’s why there’s not been a spike? Cause that’s just fundamentally and anecdotally not true. Evers direction was to empower someone who subsequently declared a rolling lockdown. All we heard after the SC ruling was how reckless and stupid Wisconsin was and how everyone was out there putting everyone at risk. Now with no discernible explosion upwards in cases, the narrative is it’s because Evers was right all along and people listened to him?  That’s a pretty odd spin just to support your guy

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Are you implying the majority of citizens are staying in lockdown or shelter at home and that’s why there’s not been a spike? Cause that’s just fundamentally and anecdotally not true. Evers direction was to empower someone who subsequently declared a rolling lockdown. All we heard after the SC ruling was how reckless and stupid Wisconsin was and how everyone was out there putting everyone at risk. Now with no discernible explosion upwards in cases, the narrative is it’s because Evers was right all along and people listened to him?  That’s a pretty odd spin just to support your guy

My anecdotal experience is that a fair number of people are by no means returning to "normal."  So I think Jockey is partially right.

[JWags85]

My anecdotal experience is that a fair number of people are by no means returning to "normal."  So I think Jockey is partially right.

Sure, but there is a huge divide between shelter at home and living circa Feb. If we’re giving Evers credit for everything between that, then so be it I guess

[mu03eng]

Not sure that Evers or his orders have anything to do with anything. If we go back and re-read this thread there have been all sorts of dire projections that haven't come true. They still could, but it's safe to say at this point that Wisconsites took common sense approach to things and have generally done a good job of self control in the re-opening phase. Hopefully this trend continues.

[injuryBug]

My anecdotal experience is that a fair number of people are by no means returning to "normal."  So I think Jockey is partially right.

Not sure where you live but I was at a baseball tournament this weekend did not see one mask and parents all over the place just like it was last year.  The local stores in sheboygan look like normal and the dirt track is packed every saturday night so from my experience people pretty close to normal except for the HS kids that still cannot go to their school and workout cause of Evers order to keep school grounds closed until July 1.

[tower912]

I was at a travel baseball tourney in Ohio.   My family and I wore masks whenever we entered a building.   We were the outliers.

[JWags85]

Not sure that Evers or his orders have anything to do with anything. If we go back and re-read this thread there have been all sorts of dire projections that haven't come true. They still could, but it's safe to say at this point that Wisconsites took common sense approach to things and have generally done a good job of self control in the re-opening phase. Hopefully this trend continues.

Yep. This is my feelings. I was in Ohio on the way back to Wisconsin and it was similar to Wisconsin in the sporadic mask usage, mostly in some retail spots, and then staff in restaurants. Though I was at 2 restaurants in Wisconsin this weekend with no masks even on waitstaff

[Jockey]

Are you implying the majority of citizens are staying in lockdown or shelter at home and that’s why there’s not been a spike?

I am not implying it, I am saying it is true. I was invited to a memorial and meal at a Country Club this Saturday. Almost 100 people invited - less than 30 have accepted. Almost all sent regards and said they were not yet ready to go out. Kohls just opened and when I went to the grocery store (Kohls is in same strip mall), there were 6 cars in the Kohls parking lot. People took Evers suggestions very seriously while we were on full lockdown and a good percentage of people are still doing the same. Still very little dine-in restaurant activity.

The majority of people are still taking this very seriously.

[mu03eng]

I am not implying it, I am saying it is true. I was invited to a memorial and meal at a Country Club this Saturday. Almost 100 people invited - less than 30 have accepted. Almost all sent regards and said they were not yet ready to go out. Kohls just opened and when I went to the grocery store (Kohls is in same strip mall), there were 6 cars in the Kohls parking lot. People took Evers suggestions very seriously while we were on full lockdown and a good percentage of people are still doing the same. Still very little dine-in restaurant activity.

The majority of people are still taking this very seriously.

I'll have what hes having