When an Olympian Goes to College, Riches Stay Out of Reach

[Tugg Speedman]

Long story that makes good points that keeping athletes like Michael Phelps out of college, because they could make tons of money as pros, they hurt all NCAA sports by lowering its profile.

They contrast athletes to the music departments that actively encourage musicians on scholarships to go get paid as musicians.  So why can't we allow athletes to do the same?

When an Olympian Goes to College, Riches Stay Out of Reach
APRIL 16, 2016

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/sports/olympics/katie-ledecky-olympian-goes-to-college-riches-stay-out-of-reach.html?ref=business

In the third grade, a music teacher inspired Katie Ledecky to take piano lessons. She showed an innate talent for the chords, picking them up quickly. Her formal lessons were phased out in the eighth grade as her swimming took off. Roughly five years later, no one is questioning Ledecky’s harmony with the water. She has developed into the best female distance freestyler in history and a legitimate quadruple Olympic gold medal threat this summer in Rio de Janeiro.

As a swimmer, Ledecky faces financial restrictions that would not have existed had she stuck with the piano. In the fall, she will enroll at Stanford on a swimming scholarship after deferring her entrance a year to train for the Summer Games. The arrangement she agreed to when she signed a letter of intent to swim for the Cardinal in exchange for tuition, books and housing precludes her from a potential seven-figure financial payoff through endorsements and paid appearances.

“I always knew I wanted to swim in college,” said Ledecky, who won the 200 and 400 freestyles in the first two days of this weekend’s Arena Pro Swim Series event at Skyline Aquatic Center. “I’m really looking forward to the opportunity.”

David Hickman, a trumpet virtuoso and professor at Arizona State, said his students were generally permitted to perform off campus “for as much money as they can make.” In some instances, the person offering employment has ties to the university, an arrangement, he said, that is viewed as widely acceptable. In an email exchange, Hickman said that some of his graduate students earned as much as $20,000 a year performing freelance engagements, or with area orchestras and chamber ensembles, or both. The exception, he added, is foreign-born students who do not have green cards.

If artists aren’t expected to starve for their craft, why are the highest-profile athletes?

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The N.C.A.A. is facing a class-action suit, brought by the former U.C.L.A. basketball player Ed O’Bannon, over the commercial exploitation of college athletes. It could have ripple effects that reshape the college landscape — and not just for the athletes in the revenue-producing sports. The core question is whether the N.C.A.A.’s amateurism rules, which currently restrict compensation for college athletes to a scholarship and a few thousand dollars to cover the full cost of attendance, are a necessary component of college sports to help ensure competitive balance, or are unreasonable and, perhaps, illegally restrictive.
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“If Katie Ledecky goes to Stanford and she has a deal with a suit company, does that take away from what she’s doing there, does that give her an unfair advantage?” said Bob Bowman, the A.S.U. men’s and women’s swimming coach. “I don’t know that that changes anything except for her bank account.”

[Herman Cain]

Student Athletes in equivalency sports like basketball and football are getting full ride scholarships. That is a hell of a deal all things considered , given that very few are pro material.

Life gives you choices and sometimes student athletes have to make a choice.

College Sports have worked well for over a hundred years under the amateur model. No real reason to change that for the benefit of a handful of kids.

That said, I think there are a lot of things the NCAA could lighten up on. 

[Tugg Speedman]

I thought the article took a different angle ...

Leaving Football and basketball out of the conversation, they were arguing that the NCAA is doing a disservice to itself.  Michael Phelps long time swimming coach is the University of Michigan swimming coach.  Phelps often trained in Michigan's pool, attended classes at Michigan and was even an unpaid volunteer for the team.  He was never a Michigan swimmer because he was a professional and it prevented him from swimming for an NCAA team.

Phelps won his first medals (6 golds, 2 bronze) when he was 19 in 2004.  If Phelps was allowed to swim for Michigan, and returned from that success to the Big 10, he could have generated interest in NCAA swimming like no one before him.

So they are arguing that the NCAA is losing by keeping big stars off their teams.

Amateurism has run its course.  It is time the NCAA allow professionals to compete.  It will raise the profile of their sports.

[GGGG]

How much more attention would Phelps truly have brought to NCAA swimming?  Probably as much as any other swimming event he swam in outside the Olympics.  Very little.

[Tugg Speedman]

How much more attention would Phelps truly have brought to NCAA swimming?  Probably as much as any other swimming event he swam in outside the Olympics.  Very little.

The professional meets he swam after the 2004 Olympics were sold out and generated some of the highest attention ever for the sport.

Just because you ignore it does not mean others did.

[GGGG]

The professional meets he swam after the 2004 Olympics were sold out and generated some of the highest attention ever for the sport.

Just because you ignore it does not mean others did.

Give me TV numbers.  Paid attendance is near meaningless.

[Tugg Speedman]

Give me TV numbers.  Paid attendance is near meaningless.

Is your position that any NCAA sport not named Football or Basketball will never be able to generate interest and the idea of allowing professionals with world records and Olympic medals to their names will do nothing to help their profile?

You have made it fairly clear that you believe the NCAA should have two sports (BB and FB) and dump the rest (your comment that UCLA, Stanford and USC leading in NCAA championships does mean anything because, as you said, these are in a bunch of sports no one cares about).

[GGGG]

Is your position that any NCAA sport not named Football or Basketball will never be able to generate interest and the idea of allowing professionals with world records and Olympic medals to their names will do nothing to help their profile?

It will do nothing significant.  People only pay attention to the Olympic sports during the Olympics.

You have made it fairly clear that you believe the NCAA should have two sports (BB and FB) and dump the rest (your comment that UCLA, Stanford and USC leading in NCAA championships does mean anything because, as you said, these are in a bunch of sports no one cares about).

Pretty much no one cares about them.  If the NCAA decided to only sponsor football and basketball, I am sure there would be much outrage but my personal watching habits would be largely unaffected.

[warriorchick]

The professional meets he swam after the 2004 Olympics were sold out and generated some of the highest attention ever for the sport.

Just because you ignore it does not mean others did.

I can't vouch for your anectdotal information, but it is at least a decade old.  What about lately? 

https://swimswam.com/why-arent-elite-level-swim-meets-more-heavily-attended/

Let's be honest.  Especially in the U.S., most so-called "Olympic" sports draw very little interest outside the actual Olympics.  I would say figure skating is somewhat of an exception, but that is not an NCAA sport.

[Tugg Speedman]

I can't vouch for your anectdotal information, but it is at least a decade old.  What about lately? 

https://swimswam.com/why-arent-elite-level-swim-meets-more-heavily-attended/

Let's be honest.  Especially in the U.S., most so-called "Olympic" sports draw very little interest outside the actual Olympics.  I would say figure skating is somewhat of an exception, but that is not an NCAA sport.

How about tennis, baseball, soccer, golf, hockey and track?  Their are other examples but you get my point.

Again the basic question is allowing professionals in the NCAA, would that raise the NCAA's profile? 

Sultan does not care about anything but FB and BB so I get his position. 

[warriorchick]

How about tennis, baseball, soccer, golf, hockey and track?  Their are other examples but you get my point.

Again the basic question is allowing professionals in the NCAA, would that raise the NCAA's profile? 

Sultan does not care about anything but FB and BB so I get his position.

With the exception of tennis and golf, all of the sports you mention above are team sports whose seasons either mirror or seriously overlap the professional schedule.  How is someone supposed to play college hockey and pro hockey at the same time?

[Tugg Speedman]

From the article, lots of ways to take advantage of world class athletes other than demanding TV ratings.  But NCAA rules never allow it to even happen ...

The five-time Olympic medalist Missy Franklin, another competitor in the Pro Swim Series event, competed in college, at California, as a freshman and a sophomore before turning pro last year.

The Golden Bears don’t charge attendance at their meets, so Franklin’s presence didn’t help improve the swim team’s fortunes directly. But she did attend fund-raising events for a donor-financed on-campus aquatics facility that is in the works, including one appearance that kept her from attending an Association of National Olympic Committees gala in Thailand in which she was to be honored for her performance at the 2012 London Games.

Franklin, 20, has also been featured in mailings sent to prospective student-athletes in sports other than swimming. On one envelope sent to California sports camp participants was the teaser “Why did five-time Olympic medalist Missy Franklin choose Cal?”

[warriorchick]

From the article, lots of ways to take advantage of world class athletes other than demanding TV ratings.  But NCAA rules never allow it to even happen ...

The five-time Olympic medalist Missy Franklin, another competitor in the Pro Swim Series event, competed in college, at California, as a freshman and a sophomore before turning pro last year.

The Golden Bears don’t charge attendance at their meets, so Franklin’s presence didn’t help improve the swim team’s fortunes directly. But she did attend fund-raising events for a donor-financed on-campus aquatics facility that is in the works, including one appearance that kept her from attending an Association of National Olympic Committees gala in Thailand in which she was to be honored for her performance at the 2012 London Games.

Franklin, 20, has also been featured in mailings sent to prospective student-athletes in sports other than swimming. On one envelope sent to California sports camp participants was the teaser “Why did five-time Olympic medalist Missy Franklin choose Cal?”

And then the article goes on to say that Missy Franklin believes she would not have been able to juggle college swimming, classes, and her professional commitments.

[Tugg Speedman]

And then the article goes on to say that Missy Franklin believes she would not have been able to juggle college swimming, classes, and her professional commitments.

So you think the NCAA is not hurting itself with the amateur restriction?

[warriorchick]

So you think the NCAA is not hurting itself with the amateur restriction?

I am saying it would be pretty darn difficult to be a professional athlete and a college athlete at the same time.

[Tugg Speedman]

We have had many threads here arguing that athletes are being hurt by not allowing them to earn money off their skills.  This article is arguing that the schools are also being hurt by denying themselves to have opportunity to have a professional athlete on their team.

And Sultan is correct ... their is such little money in sports like swimming that Ledecky would rather have a Stanford degree than a professional career.  Why not allow them to try both at the same time?

[warriorchick]

We have had many threads here arguing that athletes are being hurt by not allowing them to earn money off their skills.  This article is arguing that the schools are also being hurt by denying themselves to have opportunity to have a professional athlete on their team.

And Sultan is correct ... their is such little money in sports like swimming that Ledecky would rather have a Stanford degree than a professional career.  Why not allow them to try both at the same time?

Those threads were about being directly paid for their participation in college sports. This is about adding a college sports career (including becoming a full-time student) to one's professional sports career. It is impractical for all but a handful of athletes in any given year, and I don't buy the argument that it will raise the profile of college sports.

Your example, Michael Phelps, is the greatest athlete in the history of his sport.  Even his participation in a couple of NCAA meets (and that is all it would have been, because his professional commitments would always take precedence) would not have materially benefited college sports.

[HouWarrior]

I thought the article took a different angle ...

Leaving Football and basketball out of the conversation, they were arguing that the NCAA is doing a disservice to itself.  Michael Phelps long time swimming coach is the University of Michigan swimming coach.  Phelps often trained in Michigan's pool, attended classes at Michigan and was even an unpaid volunteer for the team.  He was never a Michigan swimmer because he was a professional and it prevented him from swimming for an NCAA team.

Phelps won his first medals (6 golds, 2 bronze) when he was 19 in 2004.  If Phelps was allowed to swim for Michigan, and returned from that success to the Big 10, he could have generated interest in NCAA swimming like no one before him.

So they are arguing that the NCAA is losing by keeping big stars off their teams.

Amateurism has run its course.  It is time the NCAA allow professionals to compete.  It will raise the profile of their sports.

Before him, ....and in the Big 10..... was Mark Spitz at Indiana.

His conference work was irrelevant to his Munich medals, and Wheaties box.

If Spitz had the Phelps "pro" options available to him back then (unavailable back then due to USOC amateur rules)...he would have had little reason to swim with Indiana in Big 10 meets. That was then this is now

[Tugg Speedman]

Before him, ....and in the Big 10..... was Mark Spitz at Indiana.

His conference work was irrelevant to his Munich medals, and Wheaties box.

If Spitz had the Phelps "pro" options available to him back then (unavailable back then due to USOC amateur rules)...he would have had little reason to swim with Indiana in Big 10 meets. That was then this is now

Wrong POV .... How did Indiana swimming benefit from Mark Spitz?

[HouWarrior]

Wrong POV .... How did Indiana swimming benefit from Mark Spitz?

I guess we agree and you are right...IU swimming was famous back then in the B10. If I recall though...the IU coach was famous and the program's fame was established before Spitz was there.  Spitz just went to IU for the coach and program's fame. He added to it sure, but it predated him.

In the end we all have trouble really recalling the Spitz/IU stuff simply because his fame and history was all Olympic, like that of Phelps.

Similar example,.... Carl Lewis ran here for UH track, and they had a couple good years while he was there. That was fleeting, though, as he went "pro" with Santa Monica Track club and won lots of Olympic Gold

[Tugg Speedman]

I guess we agree and you are right...IU swimming was famous back then in the B10. If I recall though...the IU coach was famous and the program's fame was established before Spitz was there.  Spitz just went to IU for the coach and program's fame. He added to it sure, but it predated him.

In the end we all have trouble really recalling the Spitz/IU stuff simply because his fame and history was all Olympic, like that of Phelps.

Similar example,.... Carl Lewis ran here for UH track, and they had a couple good years while he was there. That was fleeting, though, as he went "pro" with Santa Monica Track club and won lots of Olympic Gold

From 1968 to 1974 IU swimming won six straight NCAA championships.  The 1971 IU swimming team is considered the greatest NCAA swimming team in history, it was anchored by Mark Spitz.

You are correct that IU was considered a swimming powerhouse before Spitz arrived, and may be a big reason why he chose IU.  But Spitz did more than anyone to turn IU legendary program (think UCLA in basketball) that they still benefit from today.

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If NCAA rules allowed Phelps to swim for Michigan, instead of training in their pool and being an unpaid assistant coach, could he have help transcend Michigan swimming into a legendary program as well?  We will never know as he could not do it under current rules.

[HouWarrior]

From 1968 to 1974 IU swimming won six straight NCAA championships.  The 1971 IU swimming team is considered the greatest NCAA swimming team in history, it was anchored by Mark Spitz.

You are correct that IU was considered a swimming powerhouse before Spitz arrived, and may be a big reason why he chose IU.  But Spitz did more than anyone to turn IU legendary program (think UCLA in basketball) that they still benefit from today.

-------------

If NCAA rules allowed Phelps to swim for Michigan, instead of training in their pool and being an unpaid assistant coach, could he have help transcend Michigan swimming into a legendary program as well?  We will never know as he could not do it under current rules.

So I'm guessing....When Spitz was asked why he chose IU for swimming he said......

wait for it....

Its Indiana, Its Indiana!!!!

[Tugg Speedman]

So I'm guessing....When Spitz was asked why he chose IU for swimming he said......

wait for it....

Its Indiana, Its Indiana!!!!

He was also the original bronze beast!!!

[warriorchick]

He was also the original bronze beast!!!

This is the first sports poster I ever had on my bedroom wall: