White Privilege at MU

[4everwarriors]

Still missing the point. Not arguing punishment here. Anyone can see the police reacted inappropriately. My point is Brown was illegally parked which led the cops to investigate the incident and it slid downhill from there.
Follow the law and none of this happens.




#alllawsmatter

[tower912]

You are missing my point.  A ticket is the appropriate application of the law.  The officers did not react proportionately.

[Billy Hoyle]

What is the customary punishment for illegally parking in a handicapped spot?  What would you expect yours to be?

#makethepunishmentfitthecrime

Brown is lucky he *only* got tasered when you think about it.

[4everwarriors]

You are missing my point.  A ticket is the appropriate application of the law.  The officers did not react proportionately.

Actually, I think we both understand each other. But, I contend the entire incident was avoidable. Brown's dumb luck was the cops happened to drive by at the same time he was illegally parked. Yes, I know it happens all the time without a ticket being issued whether you're white, black, blue, or green.

[tower912]

I think we do.

[Herman Cain]

Still missing the point. Not arguing punishment here. Anyone can see the police reacted inappropriately. My point is Brown was illegally parked which led the cops to investigate the incident and it slid downhill from there.
Follow the law and none of this happens.
#alllawsmatter

I have been pulled over many times for driving while black. I just accept it for what it is. That said I try to follow the law so I don't inadvertently create situations like this one.  Common sense. The lack of personal self discipline among many in my community is the source of a lot of problems.

[GGGG]

Still missing the point. Not arguing punishment here. Anyone can see the police reacted inappropriately. My point is Brown was illegally parked which led the cops to investigate the incident and it slid downhill from there.
Follow the law and none of this happens.

The cops, as representatives of the state, have a greater responsibility in this circumstance.  This is just blaming the victim bullsh*t.

[rocket surgeon]

Holding up a few good stories doesn't disprove there is a systemic problem with how many police officers interact with minorities versus white people in the same scenario.

If you don't like your arguments to be jumped on, don't make dumb arguments.  It's really that simple.

you really are one arrogant sonuvagun ain't ya?  good thing you weren't a cop-eyn'er?

[rocket surgeon]

All right, rocket, you are free to live in your world of ignorant bliss.

I mean, my 92-year-old father-in-law still calls black people "coloreds" - seriously - so I get it; some dogs either can't learn new tricks or don't want to.

Have a good weekend.

why is my world "ignorant bliss" and yours is...what?  don't get what the father in law thing nor the dog thing has to do with my interpretation of the situation, but maybe ya ought to sic sully on him.  have him read a few posts from you and sully and he will be calling all african americans "sir" and "ms." 

   

[MU82]

why is my world "ignorant bliss" and yours is...what?  don't get what the father in law thing nor the dog thing has to do with my interpretation of the situation, but maybe ya ought to sic sully on him.  have him read a few posts from you and sully and he will be calling all african americans "sir" and "ms." 

 

Let me tell y'all what it's like
Being male, middle-class and white
It's a bitch, if you don't believe
Listen up to my new CD
(Sha-mon)

I got sh*t runnin' throught my brain
It's so intense that I can't explain
All alone in my white-boy pain
Shake your booty while the band complains

[GGGG]

you really are one arrogant sonuvagun ain't ya?  good thing you weren't a cop-eyn'er?

Ok. I laughed.

[Goose]

For the record, the first cop is a family friend. Someone I think is of high character, and someone who served in the military. He is someone I like and respect. That said, he crossed a line that did not need to be crossed. Do have agreed with 4ever though, Brown decided to make decision that he is bigger than the law we all follow. In my darkest moment I would never take a handicapped spot, let alone two.

Imo, I think we all agree that the cops screwed up. Only issue is what % mood of blame goes to Brown. I think he gets 10%, which is based on being immature on the parking choice.

[nyg]

Thank you, Mike. I will take your advice. My point was to express anger and to try to make people angry. Your response has given me a good perspective about the use of certain words (and the differing perceptions of them) - just as I would expect from you.

But I did find a lot of humor in some of the responses. Some of those who accused me of attacking all police while continuing to support a man who is trying to tear down and de-legitimize law enforcement institutions in this country were quite fascinating.

Jockey/Brand X,

Over the years I have read your anti police posts and I really don't have the time to go back and locate each of your numerous quotes, but some I recall were "F*ck the Cops (numerous times), the Pigs reference, Thugs, and I seem to recall you mentioning they ought to be placed in some kind of camps.  The outrage that is inside you regarding law enforcement is just mesmerizing to me.  You see, I have bit my tongue over the years, just reading these comments over police matters, whether it was the Ferguson incident, or Baltimore, or now this Brown matter. The reason is that I spent 33 years in law enforcement, and maybe I am the only law enforcement guy on this board or as you see it, Scoop Pig/Thug. I never got myself involved in any of the discussion, albeit I might have mentioned background on affidavits, criminal complaints, grand juries and various court information, but mainly stayed back and read how people feel and their reactions to the incidents that make the news media.

I am not going to provide you a resume, but I have witnessed every crime imaginable to mankind.  I have seen almost every cause of death to a human being that is possible.  I have been shot at and yes, in 2000, I was involved in a shooting in which the suspect was killed.  I was cleared entirely by a shooting review team and a county grand jury.  I am a white male and the subject was a black male, but race was not an issue there, as you may think it is with every law enforcement encounter.  The suspect had kidnapped a couple and taped them to chairs in a basement, attempting to get their ATM pinched.  The male victim provided the number and the suspect then shot them both in the head and left.  The male died and the female survived a gunshot wound through her eye, and was found shortly thereafter and lived.  Provided identification of subject and we located him a few weeks later when a shootout occurred during apprehension. Enough of that, just wanted to get it out there, in case there's a snide reply about never having gone through such an incident.

You said above that find humor in some of the responses, yet I don't see anybody laughing.  To be honest, you have no clue as to what happens on the street every day.  OK, your response will be all the videos/body cams incidents that have come out over the years, but they only translate to less than 1% of the interactions with law enforcement.  Yes, there are bad officers and there are a lot of officers with bad tempers, but the majority are there to help and service the community. Just this morning, there was a segment on NBC about an officer who rescued a substitute teacher in the Santa Fe shooting.  The teacher had been shot at least three times, the officer despite taking fire, ran and carried her away to safety and she lived.  Her husband spoke before some state council hearing, with the officer present, breaking down in tears and called him a hero for saving his wife's life.  Maybe they will show that officers body camera footage.  Doubt it, because not news worthy or racially news motivating.

I truly hope that one day you will not require the services of an officer, whether its a break in at your residence, an auto accident, an assault on a family member, etc. because its only a matter of time before an interaction will happen.  I know you won't call them a Pig or a Thug while they are trying to assist you or a family member in need.  I have been called almost every name in the book, but the Pig comment is just over the top. 

Don't really want to continue any further, but you have very right to vent about law enforcement, racism, and the likes, but maybe you can discontinue the F*ck the Cops and Pigs comments.  There is no humor in that. 

[NorthernDancerColt]

All right, rocket, you are free to live in your world of ignorant bliss.

I mean, my 92-year-old father-in-law still calls black people "coloreds" - seriously - so I get it; some dogs either can't learn new tricks or don't want to.

Have a good weekend.

a close elderly (mid90s) relative of mine still refers to Asians as "Orientals". When I cringe and try to correct her, she gets mad and brings up the long defunct Northwest Orient Airlines. The world is clearly not going her way.

On a serious note, '82, I wonder if in your media position you ever had an interaction with a high ranking NAACP official? I still don't know why they never changed their name. Not at all excusing your FIL, but you could see how some would use the NAACP excuse to continue to use the term "colored".

[rocket surgeon]

Jockey/Brand X,

Over the years I have read your anti police posts and I really don't have the time to go back and locate each of your numerous quotes, but some I recall were "F*ck the Cops (numerous times), the Pigs reference, Thugs, and I seem to recall you mentioning they ought to be placed in some kind of camps.  The outrage that is inside you regarding law enforcement is just mesmerizing to me.  You see, I have bit my tongue over the years, just reading these comments over police matters, whether it was the Ferguson incident, or Baltimore, or now this Brown matter. The reason is that I spent 33 years in law enforcement, and maybe I am the only law enforcement guy on this board or as you see it, Scoop Pig/Thug. I never got myself involved in any of the discussion, albeit I might have mentioned background on affidavits, criminal complaints, grand juries and various court information, but mainly stayed back and read how people feel and their reactions to the incidents that make the news media.

I am not going to provide you a resume, but I have witnessed every crime imaginable to mankind.  I have seen almost every cause of death to a human being that is possible.  I have been shot at and yes, in 2000, I was involved in a shooting in which the suspect was killed.  I was cleared entirely by a shooting review team and a county grand jury.  I am a white male and the subject was a black male, but race was not an issue there, as you may think it is with every law enforcement encounter.  The suspect had kidnapped a couple and taped them to chairs in a basement, attempting to get their ATM pinched.  The male victim provided the number and the suspect then shot them both in the head and left.  The male died and the female survived a gunshot wound through her eye, and was found shortly thereafter and lived.  Provided identification of subject and we located him a few weeks later when a shootout occurred during apprehension. Enough of that, just wanted to get it out there, in case there's a snide reply about never having gone through such an incident.

You said above that find humor in some of the responses, yet I don't see anybody laughing.  To be honest, you have no clue as to what happens on the street every day.  OK, your response will be all the videos/body cams incidents that have come out over the years, but they only translate to less than 1% of the interactions with law enforcement.  Yes, there are bad officers and there are a lot of officers with bad tempers, but the majority are there to help and service the community. Just this morning, there was a segment on NBC about an officer who rescued a substitute teacher in the Santa Fe shooting.  The teacher had been shot at least three times, the officer despite taking fire, ran and carried her away to safety and she lived.  Her husband spoke before some state council hearing, with the officer present, breaking down in tears and called him a hero for saving his wife's life.  Maybe they will show that officers body camera footage.  Doubt it, because not news worthy or racially news motivating.

I truly hope that one day you will not require the services of an officer, whether its a break in at your residence, an auto accident, an assault on a family member, etc. because its only a matter of time before an interaction will happen.  I know you won't call them a Pig or a Thug while they are trying to assist you or a family member in need.  I have been called almost every name in the book, but the Pig comment is just over the top. 

Don't really want to continue any further, but you have very right to vent about law enforcement, racism, and the likes, but maybe you can discontinue the F*ck the Cops and Pigs comments.  There is no humor in that.

  thank you nyg for your service to the community-you were exactly the example i had in mind when trying to argue my point.  there are tens of thousands of police interactions each day across the country.  they are almost always good or successful interactions within the guidelines and policies and the laws set forth.  you guys go into a city, a neighborhood ready for the unknown, which could occur at any moment without notice.  cops have been ambushed just because they are cops.  a seemingly benign incident can turn deadly without warning.

       i have heard that being involved in a shooting is a very traumatic experience,  not what some cop hating people make it out to be-some trigger happy fill in the blank hating ...too many people have minimized this way too often and yet, each time you drive off to work, you truly do not know if you will be returning home to your family.  not much unlike going in to war-thank you!  and thank you for your response here-i hope it opened up at least a few eyes here, of a reality of the profession from the front lines rather than the media sensationalizing the victims

 

[rocket surgeon]

Actually, I think we both understand each other. But, I contend the entire incident was avoidable. Brown's dumb luck was the cops happened to drive by at the same time he was illegally parked. Yes, I know it happens all the time without a ticket being issued whether you're white, black, blue, or green.

at 2 am in an area rife with prostitution, shootings, robbery, assault, etc...these are the types of situations that lead to happening upon larger crimes.  although someone within the group of police should have de-escalated the response, brown could have helped his own case some.  the police were disciplined.  some have called for firing.  that still may come, 

  now take all the "negatively" reported incidents involving police and put them up against all incidents combined and you still have only very few negative in comparison.  many of the incidents at first reported to be negative on the police side, turned out to be justified.  all people remember is the negative side of the story.  exoneration, meaning both sides of the story were realized and the police were found to have followed protocol. 

  correct me if i'm wrong nyg, but many of the cop-haters seem to think you guys love this chit, going in to unknown situations and busting the chit out people, shooting, emptying your clips and re-loading...just like on tv eyn'a?  my understanding is that much of the reaction is adrenalin, fight or flight with some fear.  but bottom line is you are doing all this to save someone's life.  whether it be your partners, a victim or heaven forbid, your own.  many of the police involved in shootings have a hard time, and rightly so, going back into active service

[4everwarriors]

Jockey/Brand X,

Over the years I have read your anti police posts and I really don't have the time to go back and locate each of your numerous quotes, but some I recall were "F*ck the Cops (numerous times), the Pigs reference, Thugs, and I seem to recall you mentioning they ought to be placed in some kind of camps.  The outrage that is inside you regarding law enforcement is just mesmerizing to me.  You see, I have bit my tongue over the years, just reading these comments over police matters, whether it was the Ferguson incident, or Baltimore, or now this Brown matter. The reason is that I spent 33 years in law enforcement, and maybe I am the only law enforcement guy on this board or as you see it, Scoop Pig/Thug. I never got myself involved in any of the discussion, albeit I might have mentioned background on affidavits, criminal complaints, grand juries and various court information, but mainly stayed back and read how people feel and their reactions to the incidents that make the news media.

I am not going to provide you a resume, but I have witnessed every crime imaginable to mankind.  I have seen almost every cause of death to a human being that is possible.  I have been shot at and yes, in 2000, I was involved in a shooting in which the suspect was killed.  I was cleared entirely by a shooting review team and a county grand jury.  I am a white male and the subject was a black male, but race was not an issue there, as you may think it is with every law enforcement encounter.  The suspect had kidnapped a couple and taped them to chairs in a basement, attempting to get their ATM pinched.  The male victim provided the number and the suspect then shot them both in the head and left.  The male died and the female survived a gunshot wound through her eye, and was found shortly thereafter and lived.  Provided identification of subject and we located him a few weeks later when a shootout occurred during apprehension. Enough of that, just wanted to get it out there, in case there's a snide reply about never having gone through such an incident.

You said above that find humor in some of the responses, yet I don't see anybody laughing.  To be honest, you have no clue as to what happens on the street every day.  OK, your response will be all the videos/body cams incidents that have come out over the years, but they only translate to less than 1% of the interactions with law enforcement.  Yes, there are bad officers and there are a lot of officers with bad tempers, but the majority are there to help and service the community. Just this morning, there was a segment on NBC about an officer who rescued a substitute teacher in the Santa Fe shooting.  The teacher had been shot at least three times, the officer despite taking fire, ran and carried her away to safety and she lived.  Her husband spoke before some state council hearing, with the officer present, breaking down in tears and called him a hero for saving his wife's life.  Maybe they will show that officers body camera footage.  Doubt it, because not news worthy or racially news motivating.

I truly hope that one day you will not require the services of an officer, whether its a break in at your residence, an auto accident, an assault on a family member, etc. because its only a matter of time before an interaction will happen.  I know you won't call them a Pig or a Thug while they are trying to assist you or a family member in need.  I have been called almost every name in the book, but the Pig comment is just over the top. 

Don't really want to continue any further, but you have very right to vent about law enforcement, racism, and the likes, but maybe you can discontinue the F*ck the Cops and Pigs comments.  There is no humor in that.

I joke a lot on this site, but I think most posters realize when I'm serious as well. In 12 years of posting I haven't read a more moving, revealing, and succint post from anyone. Nyg, I admire you and I am proud that we are fellow Marquette alums. To me, you are The Difference. Bravo!

[Dr. Blackheart]

What is the customary punishment for illegally parking in a handicapped spot?  What would you expect yours to be?

#makethepunishmentfitthecrime

Towed

[mu_hilltopper]

...all the videos/body cams incidents that have come out over the years, but they only translate to less than 1% of the interactions with law enforcement. ...

Don't really want to continue any further, but you have very right to vent about law enforcement, racism, and the likes, but maybe you can discontinue the F*ck the Cops and Pigs comments.  There is no humor in that. 

+1 to all of this.

[Goose]

nyg

Thank you for the outstanding post. I wish you had shared this earlier with Jockey and hopefully shut him up. While his posts greatly offend me, I have to say, your post really moved me. The one wonderful thing to come out of jockey’s poison, is your sharing your life experiences with us.

[nyg]

Thank you all for the quick response thoughts.  Like I said, I have been on this board for 11 years and like to follow MU hoop information.  I venture to the Superbar and enjoy reading about the various topics that come up and the passion some of you have on these topics, even though some posters are out of their minds, but still enjoyable.

I never "tooted my horn" or whatever terminology because this is not the place to do it.  As Tower/Brew can attest to, we could spend days telling war stories, but they don't.  Its kept in house, unless asked.  I just want the Scoop community to realize 99% of law enforcement are extremely professional and will go out of their way to help you and your loved ones when in need.  The bad incidents are the ones that get publicized and shed just a terrible light. Its a very, very though profession these days. Enough of this.. Thank you again and I'll just get back to normal thread viewing.

Rocketman, I will end in this.  It is no where near anything on TV, not even close.  I know some of you enjoy Live PD, which is pretty good showing the street officers and their interaction, but the officers know they are on camera and lets say are pretty nice to the knuckleheads in certain situations.  Still a fun watch.  As Tower and Brew can verify, its not all Chicago Fire for them.

If you want the most realistic television program ever produced and one of the highest rated by critics, watch the HBO series The Wire. 

[real chili 83]

Police have been corrupt as a matter of practice. $21,000,000 has been paid out by the city of Milwaukee over the last 2 1/2 years for police misconduct. Many cities have paid out much more. We, as citizens, must let them know this conduct is no longer acceptable no matter what the climate is in the country. Ever.

I appreciate your kind words as my son starts his career in law enforcement.  I’ll be sure to let him know how bad and horrible of a choice he’s made.

[Hards Alumni]

Honestly, the problem is that there was a confrontation at all.  The ticket should have been given and that should be the end of it.  What followed was a ton of male bravado that created a stupid situation.

If Brown has a problem with the ticket, he contests it in a court of law.  If they cops walk away there is no problem.

Instead we see what we see.  Police escalating a situation where they needed to be de-escalating.  This is the result of militarizing our police forces.

I'll leave the rest of you to debate to whom police escalation primarily affects... but... its black people.

[Goose]

real

Good luck to your son. I provided a long list of violations to jockey over his long career.

[Pakuni]

Thank you all for the quick response thoughts.  Like I said, I have been on this board for 11 years and like to follow MU hoop information.  I venture to the Superbar and enjoy reading about the various topics that come up and the passion some of you have on these topics, even though some posters are out of their minds, but still enjoyable.

I never "tooted my horn" or whatever terminology because this is not the place to do it.  As Tower/Brew can attest to, we could spend days telling war stories, but they don't.  Its kept in house, unless asked.  I just want the Scoop community to realize 99% of law enforcement are extremely professional and will go out of their way to help you and your loved ones when in need.  The bad incidents are the ones that get publicized and shed just a terrible light. Its a very, very though profession these days. Enough of this.. Thank you again and I'll just get back to normal thread viewing.

Rocketman, I will end in this.  It is no where near anything on TV, not even close.  I know some of you enjoy Live PD, which is pretty good showing the street officers and their interaction, but the officers know they are on camera and lets say are pretty nice to the knuckleheads in certain situations.  Still a fun watch.  As Tower and Brew can verify, its not all Chicago Fire for them.

If you want the most realistic television program ever produced and one of the highest rated by critics, watch the HBO series The Wire.

nyg ... you make an eloquent and heartfelt defense of your profession. I'm not a cop, but have worked with the law enforcement community for much of my career. I've come to know and respect many cops, some of whom I now socialize with and consider friends. I respect and appreciate what they, and you, do.

That said, I'm a little troubled by the constant trotting out of statements like "the vast majority of interactions are positive" and the like. Not only does that seem to minimize the profound impact of the negative interactions, regardless of how rare, but it seems to imply that there is an acceptable number of bad actors in your profession.
I mean, I get it, every profession has bad actors. But whenever we read a story about a teacher sexually abusing a child or a lawyer swindling clients, no one rushes out to say that "the vast majority of lawyer-client interactions are positive" or "99 percent of teachers aren't pedophiles." That goes without saying. Cops don't get extra credit for having positive interactions with the people they serve. That's the baseline expectation, right?
I 100 percent agree with you on the use of disrespectful terms for your profession, but it would be worth remembering that those terms - and much of the distrust of your profession - haven't been created out of thin air, or some sort media-fueled mass hysteria. It reflects the behavior of some members of your profession.
It's understandable and laudable that you and others want to defend the millions of good people in your line of work from being unfairly impugned for the actions of others. And yet perhaps the profession as a whole needs to spend just as much time and energy weeding out those bad people rather than, sadly, covering up for them as has historically been the case.