Vote Counts in AZ & GA?

[forgetful]

Also even if he somehow manages shenanigans in PA, he still has AZ, GA and NV.

The Court will NEVER allow an election where the winner has 309 not to stand. The system isn’t THAT broken.

I think it all ends with PA. Trump et al. challenges the vote based on allowing ballots to come in after Election Day. The Supreme Court refuses to hear the case on the grounds that there aren't enough votes in question to affect the outcome of the election.

Effectively, they punt, instead of having to enter a political fray and potentially make precedent in a case that has no meaning. Fundamental oddity being Trump et al., being significantly behind in the election and fighting counting more ballots...they can't win if no more ballots are counted.

[Not A Serious Person]

The Senate never called it fraud, it was tampering.  If massive fraud is found by the Senate (unlikely) and they publish a bipartisan report on it, people should pay attention.  Just like they did for tampering. Why is this hard to understand for you?

So, they did not steal the election.  They tampered like they do every election cycle.

And that means that this person, and everyone in her party that supports her claims (which was most of them), are as reprehensible as Trump is now.

Hillary Clinton: Trump is an ‘illegitimate president’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.

[shoothoops]

Richard Pilger quits, wow:


https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1325992179895037953

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Somehow I think if you agree with Putin across multiple elections you should really start to challenge your assumptions.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-elections-275d5b3306bce272a77c17eb05d54b84

[rocky_warrior]

So, they did not steal the election.  They tampered like they do every election cycle.

They = the Russians. So I don't know what your point is here.

And that means that this person, and everyone in her party that supports her claims (which was most of them), are as reprehensible as Trump is now.

Hilary is not a good person. Trump is not a good person. In many cases I'm also disappointed in the political parties that back them (that they represent) , but most people affiliated with those parties should not be lumped into how awful they both are personally.

But your point was election fraud is likely to be determined by the Senate (try to keep up). Please tell me more.

[Jockey]

I think it all ends with PA. Trump et al. challenges the vote based on allowing ballots to come in after Election Day. The Supreme Court refuses to hear the case on the grounds that there aren't enough votes in question to affect the outcome of the election.

Effectively, they punt, instead of having to enter a political fray and potentially make precedent in a case that has no meaning. Fundamental oddity being Trump et al., being significantly behind in the election and fighting counting more ballots...they can't win if no more ballots are counted.

With all due respect, elected r’s are not going to accept defeat. If the courts rule against them, they will accuse the courts of being corrupt.

They have already made their bed. Now they will lie in it. If they abandon trump, they will lose both GA senate seats.

This war is very far from being over. The destruction of democracy and usurping full power is their only goal.

[GooooMarquette]

Somehow I think if you agree with Putin across multiple elections you should really start to challenge your assumptions.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-elections-275d5b3306bce272a77c17eb05d54b84

The Republicans and Putin on the same page. Just a coincidence, I’m sure…

[shoothoops]

This is what he does when he loses:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/694890328273346560?s=19

[forgetful]

This is what he does when he loses:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/694890328273346560?s=19

He's still claiming he won Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Georgia.

[Not A Serious Person]

Sounds like a lot of posters in this thread are in the same position

Good for Bruni for at least saying this ...

We Still Don’t Really Understand Trump — or America
Democrats expected better. What happened?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/07/opinion/sunday/trump-election-performance.html

Those of us surprised by Trump’s and the Republican Party’s showing in this election keep being blinded by our arrogance. We keep extrapolating from our own perceptions.

[GooooMarquette]

I was worried on election night, but now that things have settled down, I am not surprised by Trump’s showing in this election. When all is said and done, Biden will likely have flipped four or five states. Trump will have flipped none.

[Not A Serious Person]

But if you look down the ballot after President, the democrats did ... terrible.

They flipped ZERO republican House seats (winning three open seats previously held by retiring republicans).  They lost around 11 seats to Republicans for a net change of -8 for the Ds.  This even though the polls said they should pick up between 12 and 20 seats.  The House is looking like it will be 223 to 211 (with one runoff), the narrowest since the new deal.

They picked up a net of one seat in the Senate, even though the (now always wrong) Nate Silver gave them a 75% chance of flipping the Senate. The Dems are widely expected to lose the two GA runoffs (Toobin all you want, Osoff is a professional loser)

They lost a Governship (MT) so the Govs are 27 R to 23 D

They flipped ZERO state legislatures and lost NH.

Seems like the message was ... get rid of trump (barely) and then destroy the rest of the Democrat party.

-----------------------

So, why did this happen?

[forgetful]

But if you look down the ballot after President, the democrats did ... terrible.

They flipped ZERO republican House seats (winning three open seats previously held by retiring republicans).  They lost around 8 seats (even though the polls said they should pick up between 12 and 20).  The House is looking like it will be 223 to 211 (with one runoff), the narrowest since the new deal.

They picked up a net of one seat in the Senate, even though the (now always wrong) Nate Silver gave them a 75% chance of flipping the Senate. The Dems are widely expected to lose the two GA runoffs (Toobin all you want, Osoff is a professional loser)

They lost a Governship (MT) so the Govs are 27 R to 23 D

They flipped ZERO state legislatures and lost NH.

Seems like the message was ... get rid of trump (barely) and then destroy the rest of the Democrat party.

-----------------------

So, why did this happen?

Simple, we live in a super hyper-partisan nation.

People identify with the GOP as much as they identify with their religion. For them, they can easily say that they will vote against their "home (GOP)" but doing so once they are in the booth is another story.

So a lot changed their mind and stuck with their religion at the last moment. Others split their vote, went against Trump (which is why he lost), but then supported the Senate/Congress candidates to hedge their losses and calm their angst.

This was not a surprise to me at all.

[Not A Serious Person]

Simple, we live in a super hyper-partisan nation.

People identify with the GOP as much as they identify with their religion. For them, they can easily say that they will vote against their "home (GOP)" but doing so once they are in the booth is another story.

So a lot changed their mind and stuck with their religion at the last moment. Others split their vote, went against Trump (which is why he lost), but then supported the Senate/Congress candidates to hedge their losses and calm their angst.

This was not a surprise to me at all.

This argument only works if we are a majority R country.  Are we?

[GooooMarquette]

But if you look down the ballot after President, the democrats did ... terrible.

They flipped ZERO republican House seats (winning three open seats previously held by retiring republicans).  They lost around 11 seats to Republicans for a net change of -8 for the Ds.  This even though the polls said they should pick up between 12 and 20 seats.  The House is looking like it will be 223 to 211 (with one runoff), the narrowest since the new deal.

They picked up a net of one seat in the Senate, even though the (now always wrong) Nate Silver gave them a 75% chance of flipping the Senate. The Dems are widely expected to lose the two GA runoffs (Toobin all you want, Osoff is a professional loser)

They lost a Governship (MT) so the Govs are 27 R to 23 D

They flipped ZERO state legislatures and lost NH.

Seems like the message was ... get rid of trump (barely) and then destroy the rest of the Democrat party.

-----------------------

So, why did this happen?

If the goal was to destroy the Democratic Party, it failed.

Before the election, it controlled the House of Representatives and nothing else. After the election, it controls the House of Representatives and the White House.

If that amounts to destruction, I’ll take it.

[Not A Serious Person]

If the goal was to destroy the Democratic Party, it failed.

Before the election, it controlled the House of Representatives and nothing else. After the election, it controls the House of Representatives and the White House.

If that amounts to destruction, I’ll take it.

Thank you, Speaker Pelosi ... and keep saying this and good luck in 2022.


https://www.newsweek.com/dem-congresswoman-says-party-will-torn-apart-if-it-pushes-progressive-platforms-dont-say-1545273
"Don't say socialism ever again," she said, according to Erica Werner, a congressional reporter at The Washington Post. "If we run this race again, we will get f***ing torn apart again in 2022," Spanberger reportedly added. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi reportedly pushed back against the Virginia congresswoman's suggestion, noting that Democrats likely won the U.S. House and, possibly, the presidency this year.

[GooooMarquette]

Thank you, Speaker Pelosi ... and keep saying this and good luck in 2022.

You reply to my post with “thank you Speaker Pelosi?”

You may want to sit down for this…but I am not Nancy Pelosi.

[forgetful]

This argument only works if we are a majority R country.  Are we?

In terms of the Senate (more red states than blue states) and gerrymandered districts, yes we are a majority R country. The house seats that the GOP picked up are largely heavily red districts that they recently lost. They simply returned to the status quo. The GOP did lose a Georgia seat though, which is striking.

In terms of the population. No we are not, which is why the democrats won the popular vote 7/8 of the last elections.

[Pakuni]

Thank you, Speaker Pelosi ... and keep saying this and good luck in 2022.

Where do things stand today in governor's offices, state legislatures, the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate compared to the day Donald Trump was elected president?

[MU82]

Where do things stand today in governor's offices, state legislatures, the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate compared to the day Donald Trump was elected president?

Oooh! Oooh! I know the answer to this one!

[Not A Serious Person]

Where do things stand today in governor's offices, state legislatures, the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate compared to the day Donald Trump was elected president?

The Ds are a 190-year-old party, the oldest political party in the world.

Four years ago...

President = R
Senate = R
House = R
Majority of Governors = R
Majority of State Legislatures = R

This is the first time in nearly 200 years the Ds were the majority of nothing.

If this lopsided setup held for two election cycles (2018 and 2020), it would have meant the Ds were done as a political party (the modern Whigs).

So yes, the Rs are in a worse position than 2016, but they only had one way to go.  But they are doing much better than forecasted (probably a comment about how lost the pollsters are).  And now the demographics for 2022 and 2024 (which Senate seats and Governorships are up, the President's party loses House seats in the mid-term, etc) all turn negative for the Ds again.

[Not A Serious Person]

A general comment ...

Yes, we are a highly polarized country.  But this is not unique for a developed country.  They largely are all in the same position. 

It is really about an urban (left or D)/rural (right or R) divide.  And the populations are about evenly split between urban and rural.

And what is driving this?  The lifestyles between urban and rural are differing more and more every day.  We are living differently from each other to a degree not seen before.

As such our political priorities are different.  Urban is about social/cultural issues.  Rural is about economic issues.

[brewcity77]

Agreed, if they just kept their mouth shut I honestly think the two runoff’s would have been a resounding Republican win. Democrats wouldn’t have shown up without a Trump to go against.

I think they're worried about their own turnout after seeing Georgia get flipped. Even without Trump, Stacy Abrams is still there and will spearhead the Dem Senate campaigns. They've already turned their attention hard to those races.

Meanwhile, you can see how much Trump juiced Republican turnout from 2018 by the House races. Without him on the ballot, I think many Georgia Republicans could stay home.

If you look at the last major Georgia special for Secretary of State in 2018, turnout plummeted from the general. It's not surprising, but I think it's entirely plausible Abrams & Yang could keep more of their base energized on the heels of flipping the state blue. Just look at the Atlanta celebrations.

[shoothoops]

Sounds like a lot of posters in this thread are in the same position

Good for Bruni for at least saying this ...

We Still Don’t Really Understand Trump — or America
Democrats expected better. What happened?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/07/opinion/sunday/trump-election-performance.html

Those of us surprised by Trump’s and the Republican Party’s showing in this election keep being blinded by our arrogance. We keep extrapolating from our own perceptions.

Biden is going to win the Electoral College with 306 Electoral Votes. Biden has a margin of millions in the popular vote, and there are still 5 million more votes to count in CA, NY, IL. Winning the popular vote 7 out if the past 8 elections is a lot.

That's not close. That's a rout. If everyone can say that first, I am willing to say that Trump has a 40% following, which of course is bigger than him. His following is rural White, and White men. Everyone else? No. As Nick Bakay used to say, the numbers never lie.

[Not A Serious Person]

The betting/prediction markets called the election last week far better than the polls or outfits like FiveThirtyEight.

Currently they have the republicans at 80% to hold the majority in the Senate.

https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/4366/Which-party-will-control-the-Senate-after-2020-election

Perdue beat Osoff by over 3% but narrowly missed 50% to avoid a run-off (49.9%).  The sum total of Republican votes in the Special election topped Democrat votes (about 15 names were on the ballot).

Finally, what was the constant last week? Republicans outperformed. It is just wishful thinking that is going to change. If anything it is worse for Democrats.  Without Trump on the ballot, and he will have long conceded by Jan 5, all the Democrat energy will be gone.

So you can wish and hope all you want, but expect both republicans to prevail.... unless someone is caught Toobin-ing on Zoom.

Lastly, Osoff has shown he is good at only one thing, losing races. Abrams is also famous for what? Losing.  Why you pin a strategy on people that cannot win is beyond me.