McMurrow And Buzz's Thinking - Should He Think "Position" or "Best Available?"

[Tugg Speedman]

By taking McMurrow it seems that Buzz took the best available center he could find over the next year.  However, as many other posts highlight, their seems to be 15 to 20 three and four star recruits that have MU on their list.  By taking McMurrow, Buzz only has two spots for left for the 2009 class.  See the wiki for more info.

Do you agree that we need a "center" even if he is an unknown project and it means passing on a three star small forward or a four star undersized shooting guard (Lacy?).  In otherwords, do you agree with the idea that we need to take a center, any center, or should we take the "best available" even if it means we have a glut at some spot on the floor?

Curious about your thoughts.

P.S. The spell-checker wants to change McMorrow to McGuire.  Hopefully this a good omen.

[MR.HAYWARD]

first of all your questioning appears to consider them mutually exclusive of one another.  I t very well maybe that he is both a canter and a very good player in time or in other words a 3-4 star type recruit, it appears other big name programs were getting involved. 

Also it hink the answer is pretty clear ...that he best helps us compete in the BE in 2009-2010 than maybe anyone of these SF's or g's you mention.   As we have so painfully seen over the last three years yu can only be so good in the BE with out size.

[bma725]

By taking McMurrow, Buzz only has two spots for left for the 2009 class.  See the wiki for more info.

Buzz only has one spot for the 2009 class.  We lose James, Mathews, McNeal and Burke.  We gain Williams, Maymon, Buycks and whoever the fourth commit is.

[Tugg Speedman]

Buzz only has one spot for the 2009 class.  We lose James, Mathews, McNeal and Burke.  We gain Williams, Maymon, Buycks and whoever the fourth commit is.

ok, so we have one spot for 2009.  That means it will be a PG.  So the only list of possible recruits that matter is:

 Junior Cadougan - Eric Bledsoe - Michael Dixon - Johnnie Lacy - A.J. Walton - Chris Colvin - Mfon Udofia

The rest, have a nice life.  We no longer have a spot for Jamil Wilson, Roger Franklin, Donte Hill, Kris Dewitt or Shawn Kemp (all guys that were supposedly offered).

Is everyone ok with this?

Second thought, does Buzz know of some potential transfers that will open up more spots?

[postman_11]

ok, so we have one spot for 2009.  That means it will be a PG.  So the only list of possible recruits that matter is:

 Junior Cadougan - Eric Bledsoe - Michael Dixon - Johnnie Lacy - A.J. Walton - Chris Colvin - Mfon Udofia

The rest, have a nice life.  We no longer have a spot for Jamil Wilson, Roger Franklin, Donte Hill, Kris Dewitt or Shawn Kemp (all guys that were supposedly offered).

Is everyone ok with this?

Second thought, does Buzz know of some potential transfers that will open up more spots?

maybe patric hazel will transfer 2 make room for an interior scorer...hopefull cuz Mcmorrow was a wait n see signing that may possibly be a waste of time or time well spent well see. . but i like dan jennings and shawn kemp as interior forces for our team.

[Tugg Speedman]

i like dan jennings and shawn kemp as interior forces for our team.

This is now a physical impossibility.  Even if both called Buzz right now and begged, he doesn’t have a slot and needs to use his last slot for a PG. 

Everyone is now off the board except the handful of PG prospects (listed above).  That’s it, no more.  Stop talking about everyone else, its over now that McMurrow signed.  You might as well talk about how good we’d be if the entire UNC team transferred to MU (Roy to Buzz!) because that has about the same chance as Jennings and Kemp coming.

This is the consequence of signing McMurrow - an unknown project.  Only if Buzz knows for sure that every center and PF prospect are going elsewhere does this signing does make sense.  And even then he might have been better off banking it for a 2010 prospect. 

So, I have to assume that all the center and PF prospects were simply never going to come to MU in the first place,  Update the wiki, you can delete them all, they were never ever a possibility.

[Murffieus]

McMorrow might have been the "best project" available----he's certainly is not the best player available for 2009-10. Generally BPA is the way to go-----as when you go for need you can get forced into picks that you would otherwise not consider as BPA.

[Pakuni]

This is the consequence of signing McMurrow - an unknown project.  Only if Buzz knows for sure that every center and PF prospect are going elsewhere does this signing does make sense.  And even then he might have been better off banking it for a 2010 prospect. 

And going into the 2009-10 season with one player over 6'7" on the entire roster? Brilliant!
I have no idea what McMorrow will become. Either does anyone else here. Could be the next Amal McCaskill, could be the next Greg Clausen.
But your explanation of the only way this makes sense is ludicrous.

Here's how else it could make sense:

- coaching staff believes McMorrow will help the team more than the other post players they were recruiting
- coaching staff believes McMorrow, an athletic 7-foot, 260-pound man, has more upside than a 6-foot-9, 215-pound kid like Shawn Kemp.
- coaching staff believes it's better to have a player locked up and in the fold than to hope a kid from the deep south (Kemp) or east coast (Jennings) will spur decide to come to Milwaukee, especially if they believe those players are of equal value.

What you are arguing, in essence, is the same as suggesting MU should take a pass on Junior Cadougan or Eric Bledsoe if one wants to commit tomorrow, because Abdul Gaddy has expressed some interest.

The bottom line is that Marquette needed a big for 2009-10 and the coaching staff is of the opinion that having McMorrow on campus for a year working out with the team presents more upside than the hope Kemp or Jennings will commit. It may turn out that they're completely wrong about that. We'll have to wait and see.

[Daniel]

I like that we have 15 months to develop him, see what he can do, and for him to help our offense and defense during drills and practices.   We'll see what our staff can do too with McMorrow - and how well they develop our bigs.  So, all in all, I think I'm happy with the pick.  And the coaches obviously want him.

[Murffieus]

The bottom line is that Marquette needed a big for 2009-10 and the coaching staff is of the opinion that having McMorrow on campus for a year working out with the team presents more upside than the hope Kemp or Jennings will commit. It may turn out that they're completely wrong about that. We'll have to wait and see.

Haven't seen Jennings, but have seen Kemp on one of those "feel good" videos and he did make me feel "real good".
Whether the ball went in the hoop or not was not of significance to me as they all go in-----however what was of significance to me were his moves on the block-----that kid has been worked with.

Buzz seems to be taking the easy way out on some of thses kids----he's in too much of a hurry IMO for a guy who supposed to be a stupendous recruiter.

[postman_11]

All of this is awkward, mainly because we had many possible options and a lot of time to do this.he wont be available till 09 but so will jennings and kemp. which i believe we had a high chance of landing one of these guys. but i hope buzz knows sumthin i dont, cuz im sumwat disappointed in this signing.

[bilsu]

McMorrow has height, strength and agility. He is a late comer to basketball, but was playing other sports. His brother played pro hockey. It is not like he is somebody that is just big. He exudes potential. It is obvious by the effort made by Buzz to keep his recruitment a secret that they were really worried about someone else taking an interest in him. I cannot believe how much you guys complain. You complain about Maymon, because he has to get his academics in order. We had the same issue with Mbakwe and that worked out. You complain about Buyckes and argue over whether he had any other offers. If Cadougan would have committed a week ago you would have complained that we did not wait for Gaddy. There are some of you that are complaining that we are not signing Lacy, who is an undersized point guard who is really a shooting guard. We do not know how any of the other potential recruits would have fit in on our team personality wise. Sure we had several offers out there, but these players have not even visited. Also a lot of these players have several of the top programs in the country on their lists. The only player you have not complained about is Williams. To me he is the biggest question mark. He broke his ankle and has been rehabbing for several months. I have no doubt that he is a great talent, but I have no idea how bad his ankle is. If it does not heal right he will never fulfill his potential. Every time you recruit a player there is going to be a question mark, because you there are no guarantees. Players like Blankson, Amoroso and Mason should have been significant players here, but decided to transfer. They did not have the work ethic of a Wade, Diener or Novak. Look at Dwight Burke. Burke certainly looked like a wasted scholarship his first two years here, but he never stopped working and should be a significant contributor this year. It looks like we will have our recruiting class completed in July, which is four months ahead of signing date. Now all they have to do is come in, work hard and stay out of trouble.

[mviale]

McMorrow is a mid-major recruit and doesnt deserve a scholarship for a Top 5 BE team.   Time will tell, but one has to question this one and 15 mos is too long to wait.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

McMorrow is a mid-major recruit and doesnt deserve a scholarship for a Top 5 BE team.   Time will tell, but one has to question this one and 15 mos is too long to wait.

I don't know if McMorrow will be any good... but if the 15 months is an issue for you, is there somebody out there who you think could have come in and had an impact this year?

[mviale]

I don't know if McMorrow will be any good... but if the 15 months is an issue for you, is there somebody out there who you think could have come in and had an impact this year?

I would have banked the scholarship for a 3 or 4 star any size.

[Pardner]

We get the reasoning by Buzz...we don't get why we couldn't wait to see if a higher ranked 4 or 5 fell out.  Liam has played 20 games and is older--seems to scream of limited upside--or the same potential we could pick up at a later date from an international player (but the 15 months to work with him is a plus).  This pick up at this time is ok for a MCC or C-USA MU team, not a top BE team, though.  We officially have two very green "projects" at the 5.  Why not wait to see what falls out?  

That said, MU was in on this early so hopefully Buzz has good street info.   All in all, we are talking a 10 m/game back-up for Otule here who can give us some fouls.  Per Rosiak:

Williams -- who'd specifically asked the few staff members he had in place shortly after his hiring in April to follow any and all leads with regard to prospects -- got the lead on McMorrow from staff member Brad Autry and was understandably intrigued.

He also just so happened to have a former player of his from New Orleans, Jamie McNeilly, living near McMorrow in the Toronto area.

"Obviously, people are interested in a 7-footer, and it was a good coincidence that Coach Buzz had coached someone that lived like pretty much in my neighborhood and was in town at the time, that could actually see what level I was at," said McMorrow. "He was right in my neck of the woods so he took me to a little run he was having with a couple other guys that played in Europe and stuff, and he just reported back to Coach on where I was at, and everything's come from there, pretty much."

The ensuing weeks were spent trying to determine what exactly MU needed to do to get McMorrow transferred and qualified rather than what he'd accomplished as a player, making the recruitment process a strange one for Williams

[Pakuni]

I would have banked the scholarship for a 3 or 4 star any size.

So, you're willing to wait 15 months for a kid who's a three-star recruit at "any size", but unwilling to wait 15 months for a reportedly athletic 7-footer?
Interesting.

You're putting way too much stock in silly star ratings. In 2002, Lenny Cooke, Bracey Wright, Deangelo Collins and Evan Burns were among Scout's five-star recruits. Chris Grimm was a four-star recruit. Andrew Bogut was a two-star recruit ranked the 71st best center prospect in the class.

[yellow chickens]

I don't see why everyone thinks we need a point guard with our final scholarship. I like the looks of the lineup as follows.

1
Buycks/cubi/acker

2
e. williams/butler

3
lazar/fulce

4
maymon/mbakwe

5
mcmorrow/otule/mbakwe


This lineup is young, talented, and very tall. I think we should still use the extra scholarship on the best player available; like maybe wilson or one of the other highly ranked recruits.

[Tugg Speedman]

McMorrow has height, strength and agility. He is a late comer to basketball, but was playing other sports. His brother played pro hockey. It is not like he is somebody that is just big.

Cluasen had height, strength and agility.  Clausen's brother was a starting lineman for the University of Nebraska.  How did that work out?  Seems like we got somebody that was just big.

[bilsu]

Whether Claussen worked out or not has nothing to do with McMorrow. I could throw McCaskill back at you as an example of another player that worked out. McMorrow is neither of them. How good he becomes will depend on his work ethic and learning ability. Besides that we probalby could have used Claussen last year. I think we should withhold judgment on McMorrow until we see him at midnight madness. He will not be a polished player at that time, but we should be able to see what kind of natural ability he has. What I am hoping for is that he is bigger and more mobile than Otule. If he is less mobile than Otule than I would have some concerns. I have not seen Otule play, so this is not a commentary on Otule. My point is that if he is bigger and more mobile than Otule and we do not want him, than we probalby do not want Otule either.

[Tugg Speedman]

ok, back to the original question ....

According to the recruiting sites, MU is listed by 15 to 20 3 and 4 star recruits.  Yet, Buzz takes a complete unknown.  If he still had three or four slots left, I'd have less problem with this.  However, by taking McMurrow it leaves him with only one slot.  And he's sending a message that he's more concerned with "position" than "best available."  Given that he's probably going to use the last slot for a PG.

So, what happens if one of those 3 or 4 star recruits wants to come to MU and we don't have a slot because we took McMurrow.  Are you happy to pass on Lacy (assuming he makes grades), or Wilson, or any other non-center 3 or 4 star recruits because we are so desperate to get size we took someone no one ever heard of?

[TJ]

ok, back to the original question ....

According to the recruiting sites, MU is listed by 15 to 20 3 and 4 star recruits.  Yet, Buzz takes a complete unknown.  If he still had three or four slots left, I'd have less problem with this.  However, by taking McMurrow it leaves him with only one slot.  And he's sending a message that he's more concerned with "position" than "best available."  Given that he's probably going to use the last slot for a PG.

So, what happens if one of those 3 or 4 star recruits wants to come to MU and we don't have a slot because we took McMurrow.  Are you happy to pass on Lacy (assuming he makes grades), or Wilson, or any other non-center 3 or 4 star recruits because we are so desperate to get size we took someone no one ever heard of?

Yes.  Best available is a great philosophy to go by, but at some point you have to fill every position on the floor too.

[muwarrior87]

We filled best available with a number of the other schollies for the next two recruiting years by taking guys that can play the 2 and 3, the 3 and 4, and so on. Then we have interchangeable parts that can help us down the road. Now with McMorrow we pick up a very big guy who has played sports in the past that require a great deal of athleticism, agility, soft hands, and quickness.  Seeing him come into Humphrey last week alongside Otule, it is visibly clear that he is MUCH bigger. He has a couple inches on him and is quite a bit bigger.

Now he has nearly a year and a half to hit the weights and the gym to work on his strength and his game. Buzz mentioned in an interview that McMorrow has not really ever had weight training as part of his workout so now he has a chance to get bigger and stronger. He's played hockey and lacrosse and with his size, even before his growth spurt, I'm guessing he was a defenseman in hockey which means he had to lay some checks into people which would be a pretty good indication that he should be able to bang down low, imo.  However he turns out, as of now I'm very supportive of this pick. The majority of the 3+ star recruits we were in on still had 8+ schools on their list. That doesn't mean any of them are sure things to commit here and playing the percentages I'll take the project over a CHANCE that we hit a high caliber recruit.

[THEGYMBAR]

I think this might end up being a mistake. We are not in the position yet to take fliers. Hearing that his feet are sound from hockey is hardly a ringing endorsement. We need Wilson and PG.

[Pakuni]

So, what happens if one of those 3 or 4 star recruits wants to come to MU and we don't have a slot because we took McMurrow.  Are you happy to pass on Lacy (assuming he makes grades), or Wilson, or any other non-center 3 or 4 star recruits because we are so desperate to get size we took someone no one ever heard of?

Yes.
The better question is "Are you happy going into the '09-'10 with only one player above 6'7" - and only two post players in all -and with an overload of wings because Scouts, Inc. and Rivals told you so?"

It's mind-boggling how some people are so wrapped up in these star rankings. If MU had a great shot at a five-star player, I could understand it. Certainly there have been dozens of five-star players who've flopped, but more often than not they're good.
But all this hand wringing over three-star guys? Guys rated lower than Chris Grimm (four stars) and Joe Chapman (four stars)? Guys rated the same as Brandon Bell (three stars) and Marcus Jackson (three stars)? Those are the kind of players that have you in a tizzy?
It's bizarre that you're apparently upset that Buzz signed McMorrow over, for example, Shawn Kemp, and the entire basis is that one is a three-star recruit whose name you've previously heard.

Again, I have no idea how good McMorrow will or won't be, but to criticize his commitment because he's not a three-star recruit whose name you know is silly, especially since Scout and Rivals don't rank players at Canadian colleges and I suspect you don't follow the Canadian college leagues all that closely.