Is UW a destination job?

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

Posted this on the other site as well:

Let's just assume for a minute that anyone else besides Bo Ryan took the UW hoops coaching job.  Would it be a destination if a big 6 job came open?  Let's say it was Buzz who took the UW job(I know UW fans, Buzz would never get the UW job.  Yada yada).  But lets say a guy like Buzz had the UW job and Texas came calling. Indiana, UNC, UCLA etc.  Would UW be enough of a destination to keep him around?  I say no.  I think the only reason UW appears to be as much of a big time job(probably only to UW fans) is because of the unique individual who took the job, Bo Ryan.  They will be immune to the coaching roller coaster only as long as Ryan is there.   It appears after this week that even their football job is nowhere even close to a destination when their guy leaves for a mid-level sec job...

[Aughnanure]

They are more likely to keep their coaches, and for longer, but UW is not a basketball destination job in the slightest.

[JD]

Was that a serious question? 

How do you even put Madison in the same sentence as IU, UNC, UCLA...

[Hards Alumni]

They are more likely to keep their coaches, and for longer, but UW is not a basketball destination job in the slightest.

Correct.

Absolutely not a destination job.  Its a job that old guys take to run their old stodgy offense and then retire, and hope someone else does the same.

[brewcity77]

Of course not. Here's my list of true "not gonna leave to go anywhere" jobs:

Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, UCLA

That's it. That's the list. Six schools that no one in their right mind would ever leave, unless it was for a job at another of those six schools (i.e. Roy Williams Kansas > UNC) or in the NBA. Honestly, I'm not even sure I'd put Kansas on that list, and they're a true superpower.

After that, I'd say these are pretty close to destination jobs:

Louisville, Arizona, Ohio State, Michigan State, Syracuse, Connecticut

Louisville for me is definitely closest to that next tier with Arizona and Ohio State close behind. The rest are huge programs, but largely destination schools because of the coaches they've had (Izzo, Boeheim, Calhoun).

Past that, destinations are at best situational. Georgetown is a destination for the Thompson family, UW is a destination for an in-state lifer like Bo, Gonzaga is a destination for a guy happy as a mid-major king like Few, and Marquette may be a destination for someone who is passionately religious and a bit quirky like Buzz.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Wisconsin isn't a destination job in any sport.

[JD]

Wisconsin isn't a destination job in any sport.

+1,000,000

[brewcity77]

Wisconsin isn't a destination job in any sport.

Not true. I think they are definitely a destination job in hockey.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Of course not. Here's my list of true "not gonna leave to go anywhere" jobs:

Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, UCLA

That's it. That's the list. Six schools that no one in their right mind would ever leave, unless it was for a job at another of those six schools (i.e. Roy Williams Kansas > UNC) or in the NBA. Honestly, I'm not even sure I'd put Kansas on that list, and they're a true superpower.

After that, I'd say these are pretty close to destination jobs:

Louisville, Arizona, Ohio State, Michigan State, Syracuse, Connecticut

Louisville for me is definitely closest to that next tier with Arizona and Ohio State close behind. The rest are huge programs, but largely destination schools because of the coaches they've had (Izzo, Boeheim, Calhoun).

Past that, destinations are at best situational. Georgetown is a destination for the Thompson family, UW is a destination for an in-state lifer like Bo, Gonzaga is a destination for a guy happy as a mid-major king like Few, and Marquette may be a destination for someone who is passionately religious and a bit quirky like Buzz.

Nicely put.

I think there are some others worth mentioning (FL, Michigan, Texas), but your general premise is perfect.

[brewcity77]

Nicely put.

I think there are some others worth mentioning (FL, Michigan, Texas), but your general premise is perfect.

Thanks

I'd probably put them in that situational category. I think if one of the top six came calling for Donovan or Barnes, they'd be gone. And Michigan has never had a single basketball coach last more than 13 years. Even Johnny Orr left for another job. By the same token, I could see UConn, Syracuse, or some of those other second tier schools tumbling down to situational with just one or two bad hires.

[Benny B]

Of course not. Here's my list of true "not gonna leave to go anywhere" jobs:

Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, UCLA

That's it. That's the list. Six schools that no one in their right mind would ever leave, unless it was for a job at another of those six schools (i.e. Roy Williams Kansas > UNC) or in the NBA. Honestly, I'm not even sure I'd put Kansas on that list, and they're a true superpower.

Agreed, with one modification, "not gonna leave to go anywhere except somewhere else on this list" and one caveat, "currently."

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Thanks

I'd probably put them in that situational category. I think if one of the top six came calling for Donovan or Barnes, they'd be gone. And Michigan has never had a single basketball coach last more than 13 years. Even Johnny Orr left for another job. By the same token, I could see UConn, Syracuse, or some of those other second tier schools tumbling down to situational with just one or two bad hires.

Correct, UT, FL and MI are definitely in the secondary category.

FL and UT are good gigs simply due to athletic budget and sheer size.

MI is a pretty attractive gig because of the location and tradition. It's not IU, but it's also not far behind Ohio State, especially if they land the right coach.

I also agree that Syracuse might struggle post-Boeheim. That school is so closely tied to it's coach that it will be tough to move forward. Same for UCONN.

[mu03eng]

Thanks

I'd probably put them in that situational category. I think if one of the top six came calling for Donovan or Barnes, they'd be gone. And Michigan has never had a single basketball coach last more than 13 years. Even Johnny Orr left for another job. By the same token, I could see UConn, Syracuse, or some of those other second tier schools tumbling down to situational with just one or two bad hires.

Donovan was heavily courted by UK post-Tubby, pre-Gillispie and turned them down.  Not saying that's now the rule, but I think in general the allure of the big 6 is fading.  Obviously it's still there for most, but schools that can throw support behind a program can land and retain a good coach fairly well, plus some coaches enjoy the reduced expectations as compared to a UK or Kansas or Indiana, etc.

[Pakuni]

I might be more inclined to include Michigan State ahead of Michigan.
They've had two coaches in the past 36 years, and only five in the past 58 seasons. And One of those coaches, Izzo, has spurned numerous opportunities to go elsewhere, including the NBA.
I don't think a coach has left MSU voluntarily for another program since Pete Newell in the 50s.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

It wasn't even a destination job for Bo a few years ago when he looked elsewhere.

[jmayer1]

Donovan was heavily courted by UK post-Tubby, pre-Gillispie and turned them down.  Not saying that's now the rule, but I think in general the allure of the big 6 is fading.  Obviously it's still there for most, but schools that can throw support behind a program can land and retain a good coach fairly well, plus some coaches enjoy the reduced expectations as compared to a UK or Kansas or Indiana, etc.

He also spurned the Orlando Magic.

In 15 years (maybe not even that long), I think Florida might be looked at similar to Syracuse and UCONN (up until this year)--a program that's closely identified with their coach, but not one of the top 6. Crazy to think he's been there 17 years already.

[Dawson Rental]

Correct, UT, FL and MI are definitely in the secondary category.

FL and UT are good gigs simply due to athletic budget and sheer size.

MI is a pretty attractive gig because of the location and tradition. It's not IU, but it's also not far behind Ohio State, especially if they land the right coach.

I also agree that Syracuse might struggle post-Boeheim. That school is so closely tied to it's coach that it will be tough to move forward. Same for UCONN.

FL and TX also benefit greatly from the quality and quantity of the HS talent in their state.

[Dawson Rental]

Of course not. Here's my list of true "not gonna leave to go anywhere" jobs:

Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, UCLA

That's it. That's the list. Six schools that no one in their right mind would ever leave, unless it was for a job at another of those six schools (i.e. Roy Williams Kansas > UNC) or in the NBA. Honestly, I'm not even sure I'd put Kansas on that list, and they're a true superpower.

After that, I'd say these are pretty close to destination jobs:

Louisville, Arizona, Ohio State, Michigan State, Syracuse, Connecticut

Louisville for me is definitely closest to that next tier with Arizona and Ohio State close behind. The rest are huge programs, but largely destination schools because of the coaches they've had (Izzo, Boeheim, Calhoun).

Past that, destinations are at best situational. Georgetown is a destination for the Thompson family, UW is a destination for an in-state lifer like Bo, Gonzaga is a destination for a guy happy as a mid-major king like Few, and Marquette may be a destination for someone who is passionately religious and a bit quirky like Buzz.

Your (lack of) age shows here.  Michigan State, Syracuse, Connecticut are "largely destination schools because of the coaches they've had."  Have you checked out Duke's record before Coach K got there?  The thought of playing Duke used to bore North Carolina fans.

[Pakuni]

It wasn't even a destination job for Bo a few years ago when he looked elsewhere.

And before hiring Bo, UW was turned down by Ben Braun and Rick Majerus.
Can't imagine UNC, Duke or Kansas (or even Florida or Texas) being rejected by Ben Braun.

[brewcity77]

Your (lack of) age shows here.  Michigan State, Syracuse, Connecticut are "largely destination schools because of the coaches they've had."  Have you checked out Duke's record before Coach K got there?  The thought of playing Duke used to bore North Carolina fans.

As a matter of fact, I have. Vic Bubas propelled them from successful to national power in the 1960s. Prior to Coach K's arrival they had 20 conference regular season and tournament championships, 4 trips to the Final Four, and 2 runner-up finishes. He's augmented them to be sure, but Duke was a top program before his arrival and has become a destination program since his arrival. Don't forget, Duke was the national runner-up just 2 years before Coach K arrived. It's not like he came to a middle-of-the-road ACC school and built them into the premier program in the country. Bubas and Foster had already laid the groundwork.

[Dawson Rental]

As a matter of fact, I have. Vic Bubas propelled them from successful to national power in the 1960s. Prior to Coach K's arrival they had 20 conference regular season and tournament championships, 4 trips to the Final Four, and 2 runner-up finishes. He's augmented them to be sure, but Duke was a top program before his arrival and has become a destination program since his arrival. Don't forget, Duke was the national runner-up just 2 years before Coach K arrived. It's not like he came to a middle-of-the-road ACC school and built them into the premier program in the country. Bubas and Foster had already laid the groundwork.

I stand corrected.  I only knew of the period between Bubas and Foster which was bad.  Foster was unable to work the same magic later at Northwestern which I guess also proves your point.

[bilsu]

It was not a destination job for Dick Bennett. I think a lot of coaches move on, because they see the writing on the wall. That, I believe is what happen with Bielema (sp). He would still be there, if he had won a few more games in recent years. Fans, AD's, school presidents get dis inchanted with coaches and it changes a coach's perspective. I think two year's ago MU was a destination job for Buzz. Change in management above him with corresponding player problems has probably changed that. Assuming Texas job opens up it does not equate with him getting the job even if he wants it. At this point I am not sure how good of a season MU is going to have this year. The worse the season the less chance Texas will want him. There also should be a lot of competition for the Texas job. I certainly think they would take brad Stevens over Buzz. I do not see Butler as a destination job for Stevens and eventually he will be willing to move on. I think Stevens originally was going to hold on for the Indiana job. However, with Crean's recent success he is out of luck there. If Indiana is his dream job, then he most likely would take a job that is not a Big 10 job with hope of getting Indiana job in the future.

[brewcity77]

Even with a bad year, Buzz won't lose his luster this season. Back-to-back Sweet 16s and then a down season when he lost 2 guys to the NBA? Look at Crean...sure, he had the NCAA streak, but he was many years removed from his only run past the first weekend. Buzz probably has 2-3 years where as long as he's making the tourney he'll still be viewed as a hot commodity. Especially for anyone who looks at how well he's recruited here.

[bilsu]

Even with a bad year, Buzz won't lose his luster this season. Back-to-back Sweet 16s and then a down season when he lost 2 guys to the NBA? Look at Crean...sure, he had the NCAA streak, but he was many years removed from his only run past the first weekend. Buzz probably has 2-3 years where as long as he's making the tourney he'll still be viewed as a hot commodity. Especially for anyone who looks at how well he's recruited here.

The why would the Texas job open up? Barnes has not been horrible and has a very young team.

[brewcity77]

The why would the Texas job open up? Barnes has not been horrible and has a very young team.

I was just responding to what you wrote...

Assuming Texas job opens up it does not equate with him getting the job even if he wants it. At this point I am not sure how good of a season MU is going to have this year. The worse the season the less chance Texas will want him. There also should be a lot of competition for the Texas job.

If we assume Texas were to open, I don't think Buzz would lose his luster even if we went 15-16 and missed the NIT.