Marquette: McAdams matter FAQs

[GGGG]

That is my whole point. Abate, the Philosophy Department and the University wanted it kept quiet and his view silenced so why would they mention his name. McAdams pointed to her Web site and did not initially mention her name.

OK...I guess you can find any way to find victimization.

[forgetful]

What I find frightening is that no one is speaking out on behalf of the other student. I guess he is not entitled and has no rights since he is not part of any protected class where the government could withhold federal funds. The irony here is that student tried to go through proper channels and was shut down and McAdams is the one being fired for bringing that out to the public. I guess safe environments only exist for student teachers and not plain students. From where I sit no apology needed.

Ummm, no.  First, he didn't go through proper channels.  He lied to Abbate about being recorded.  He did all of this to try to trap the student/teacher into an awkward situation.  Instead of then going to department chairs etc., (proper channels), he went to McAdams and the media.

Pretty much the opposite of trying to do the right thing, and reeks of an agenda.  I wouldn't be surprised if the kid really didn't care at all about gay marriage, but just wanted publicity.

And as Sultan said, no one brought up his name at all.

[forgetful]

your response is appreciated and respected.  i do not mean to rehash the pages and pages of debate, but as dgles kind of stated very well in his post, 

   "He challenged us to think not just of our beliefs but of the beliefs of the people with whom we don't agree. We had heard so much about the value of human life. Now we had a challenge to it and it caused us to think."

That is great.  It doesn't change the fact that in the end he violated the code of conduct for professors.  If he wanted to make change and challenge others to listen to others they don't agree with, he could have sat down and talked with Abbate and taught her how to deal with situations like that.

He didn't do that, because he is more interested in getting his name/agenda out in public than actually accomplishing anything.

   i can see both sides of this issue as i do have my own stance and now, a better understanding of yours. however forgetful, with all due respect, this statement has some applications to your posture here-
     
 "but I find it appalling and frightening that anyone would ever support McAdams in this case."
   
i guess we will just have to sit back and watch how this plays out.  this issue seems to be one of those in which there aren't going to be any winners.   

as for macadams not apologizing-men/women of principle, like it/agree with it or not, that's how they roll man

That does highlight my stance.  The fact is there is a duty of a professor to a student, he willfully and continuously violated that duty.  No matter your stance on gay marriage, there is no defending McAdams here.

[mu-rara]

McAdams is not being fired for political reasons.  He is being fired for repeatedly violating University codes of ethics in regards to students. His violations have been documented and he continued to violate these rules that are in place solely to protect the students. 

He was right to be fired and he has no one to blame but himself. 

Those attacking Abbate should be ashamed of themselves.  Also, Keefe, she didn't give up her path due to internet bullies.  She continued her path in a different way to ultimately both protect herself and continue her life goals. 

If you daughter didn't continue her path in a safer manner after threats, frankly she'd be an idiot.  There is a difference between being brave and stupid and a difference between being stubborn (sticking with the same exact path) and creative (achieving the same goals in a safer wiser manner).

Yeah, sure.

[GGGG]

Yeah, sure.

Other conservative professors haven't been fired. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Other conservative professors haven't been fired.

There are other conservative professors? 

[rocket surgeon]

There are other conservative professors?

yeah , both of them

[GGGG]

There are other conservative professors? 

Many. 

[WarriorInNYC]

There are other conservative professors?

My tax professor (Trebby) was incredibly conservative and would often pick spots in class to go on a conservative rant against liberals.  I'm mostly conservative myself, so I kind of found these rants somewhat funny (and generally more entertaining than discussing tax).

[Coleman]

I had plenty of conservative professors. If I had to guess I could definitively say 1/3 of my professors were obviously liberal, 1/3 were obviously conservative, and the other 1/3 were better at keeping their biases hidden. Maybe those 1/3 were liberal too, and the balance really is more in favor of liberals at Marquette, but very few let it sway their teaching to the point it was obvious. 

Some departments were stacked more one way than the other but I'm aware of plenty of conservatives in the business school, and even in Arts & Sciences in the Econ, History, and Poli Sci fields.

The suggestion that McAdams was singled out for his political views is ludicrous. There are scores of other conservatives that are not being targeted. He is rather being singled out for his complete disregard for the ethics of the profession.

[jsglow]

I had plenty of conservative professors. If I had to guess I could definitively say 1/3 of my professors were obviously liberal, 1/3 were obviously conservative, and the other 1/3 were better at keeping their biases hidden. Maybe those 1/3 were liberal too, and the balance really is more in favor of liberals at Marquette, but very few let it sway their teaching to the point it was obvious. 

Some departments were stacked more one way than the other but I'm aware of plenty of conservatives in the business school, and even in Arts & Sciences in the Econ, History, and Poli Sci fields.

The suggestion that McAdams was singled out for his political views is ludicrous. There are scores of other conservatives that are not being targeted. He is rather being singled out for his complete disregard for the ethics of the profession.

Of course.  But it doesn't fit the narrative.  And it pains me to say that as a conservative.

[mu-rara]

Other conservative professors haven't been fired.

They haven't been a thorn in the Administration's side.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

They haven't been a thorn in the Administration's side.

So the squeaky wheel who does something wrong gets punished.  Sounds like a story that has never been written before...

[warriorchick]

They haven't been a thorn in the Administration's side.

He's been a thorn in their side for years.  Why now?

[muwarrior69]

Other conservative professors haven't been fired.

Not Yet!

From NCR:

There are also academic freedom concerns related to Catholic identity: At Marquette University, professors have complained that the aggressive implementation of Title IX’s expansive interpretations, combined with vague definitions of what constitutes a “hostile environment,” are suppressing their academic freedom to teach Catholic theology in the classroom and promote Marquette’s Catholic identity on campus.
According to the meeting minutes of Concerned Catholics at Marquette University that were provided to the Register, a number of faculty expressed concern that the new Title IX mandates being implemented at the Catholic institution “necessarily restrict the free exchange of ideas, particularly in theology and philosophy — the very core of Catholic, Jesuit education.”
The concerns were not limited to professors alone. One professor said some students shared they did not feel comfortable sharing Church teaching in that environment.
“This is the opposite of university education,” one professor at Marquette University, who declined to be identified for this article, told the Register. The professor said the university’s Title IX compliance on issues of gender and sexuality is dampening classroom discussion of Church teaching in these areas and throwing another wrench in ongoing efforts to strengthen the university’s Catholic identity and mission.
A number of colleagues, the professor added, related that the recent Title IX training and campus environment made it “very intimidating” to speak about Catholic doctrine on sexuality in their classrooms, because that might be perceived by a student as a “hostile environment” and thus worthy of a Title IX complaint. At least one theology faculty member teaching about Genesis in his classroom received a complaint, after a student who had two fathers objected to the classroom presentation of the Church’s teaching of marriage.
“Don’t people come to universities so they can grow up? If they’re going into safe houses, how can they grow up if they can’t even deal with someone who disagrees?” the professor said.

Anyone who teaches Catholic theology regarding sexuality will be brought up on a Title IX complaint at MU, if McAdams loses his tenure. If they fight it they'll be out the door with the full weight of the Federal Government kicking them on the way out. McAdams is the poster child to silence conservative voices.

[GGGG]

Lol. Right.

[muwarrior69]

Lol. Right.

http://marquettewire.org/3950495/opinion/an-open-letter-to-the-university-on-inclusivity-and-tolerance/

Afraid to even sign their name in fear of retribution. Pretty scary if you ask me.

[GGGG]

Oy.  Victims abound.

"We are now being told that certain topics and conversations are not acceptable. The university has even required training by its employees (including all faculty) on these points. It states that even being overheard by a third party discussing certain topics (e.g. gay marriage) constitutes harassment."


I don't believe that for one second.  Show me anything that Marquette has done that says this.  If it's "required training" it is out there.  Nothing that I can see on the HR site.

[forgetful]

http://marquettewire.org/3950495/opinion/an-open-letter-to-the-university-on-inclusivity-and-tolerance/

Afraid to even sign their name in fear of retribution. Pretty scary if you ask me.

Or afraid to sign their name because they are actually a close friend of McAdams and they want to carry on the diatribe of "I don't even know him".

As a faculty member at a christian university that has gone through diversity training, I can assure you that they do not tell you that just discussing gay marriage, or the catholic teachings regarding gay marriage is a Title IX investigation. 

[muwarrior69]

Oy.  Victims abound.

"We are now being told that certain topics and conversations are not acceptable. The university has even required training by its employees (including all faculty) on these points. It states that even being overheard by a third party discussing certain topics (e.g. gay marriage) constitutes harassment."


I don't believe that for one second.  Show me anything that Marquette has done that says this.  If it's "required training" it is out there.  Nothing that I can see on the HR site.

I don't have access to the HR site, but others do and are concerned. The only information I have access to is what others are claiming and not just Mcadams. If McAdams is incorrect show me where.

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2014/09/marquettes-bizarre-training-on.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

Or afraid to sign their name because they are actually a close friend of McAdams and they want to carry on the diatribe of "I don't even know him".

As a faculty member at a christian university that has gone through diversity training, I can assure you that they do not tell you that just discussing gay marriage, or the catholic teachings regarding gay marriage is a Title IX investigation.

So training, etc, is the same across all universities? 

[GGGG]

I don't have access to the HR site, but others do and are concerned. The only information I have access to is what others are claiming and not just Mcadams. If McAdams is incorrect show me where.

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2014/09/marquettes-bizarre-training-on.html

Read what the wire said.  Read what McAdams said.  There is a key difference. 

[forgetful]

So training, etc, is the same across all universities?

Most Universities contract out to the same company and used canned online training packets that are approved to CYA in case of any lawsuits.

That makes things extremely similar across Universities as it allows them to point out that this is the same training approved for and being used by almost all Universities.

[GGGG]

In a non-academic context, two employees talking about gay marriage most definitely CAN be harassment depending on the tone of the discussion.  Two employees talking about Christians in an insulting manner CAN be harassment too.  This is just like any other workplace in that regard.

The Wire letter implies that's the case automatically and in an academic setting.  (Classroom discussion for instance.)  I find that highly unbelievable. 

[forgetful]

In a non-academic context, two employees talking about gay marriage most definitely CAN be harassment depending on the tone of the discussion.  Two employees talking about Christians in an insulting manner CAN be harassment too.  This is just like any other workplace in that regard.

The Wire letter implies that's the case automatically and in an academic setting.  (Classroom discussion for instance.)  I find that highly unbelievable.

What you describe is how the training is actually set up.  It places everything in context and in tone.  The purpose is to show what one can discuss topics openly to learn more and teach, without being offensive. 

If the theology instructors are really feeling hampered by the training etc., then they need to learn how to teach properly...they are doing it wrong.  There is nothing in the trainings that say topics cannot be discussed at all; or that brining up a topic is offensive.