[Cracked Sidewalks] Cottingham details 'the process'

[IrwinFletcher]

And in closing...I hope Buzz is very successful. And if he is...that still won't change the fact that the hiring process he came in on was a total f-ing joke...but it will at least make the medicine taste good at least.

No you don't.  You want him to fail so you can come back on the board and say "I told you so, I am smarter than Cottingham".

[IrwinFletcher]

Yep. That's what I've been saying for three weeks. I think it's very safe to assume that the process zealots around here wouldn't blink had MU hired Sean Miller or Tony Bennett without first conducting a "national search" over several weeks.

Double agree.  CrackedSidewalks and the others want Buzz to fail so they can come back to us people who have never been involved in "process" and tell us they were right.  It is a shame that fans and alums refuse to get behind this coach and program. 

[jce]

Pakuni---Your thoughts do influence MU if you right them a check. Supporting the school financially after they prove to lack professionalism is why it continues. If fans, alumni and students griped enough they might actually listen. They know everyone follows and supports.

I hope that enough people piss and moan and MU decides to make choices like other elite programs. They want Duke or Kansas money for tickets but they make decisions like they are UW Whitewater.

I'm not being snarky here, but why do you assume that UWW would make decisions that way?  A public university has a completely process driven hiring system...probably overly so.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni....Coach means more than Fr. Wild everyday of the week. How many kids in NYC or Chicago care who the President of the school is? ZERO that is how many. Everyday students are influenced by sports and that plays as big a role as anything in MU's success.

Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The majority of MU students - the great majority, I'd venture to guess - don't go to the basketball games. Many don't care about basketball. I know many, many alums who take only minor interest in the basketball program, if any at all. The hardcore fans like us who troll message boards hoping to find the latest snippet on recruiting are very much the exception to the rule.
Most go/went to Marquette - as shocking as this may seem to you - for the education, not the basketball program. While the head basketball coach may be the most visible person associated with Marquette, he is far from the most important.

[jce]

Pakuni....Coach means more than Fr. Wild everyday of the week. How many kids in NYC or Chicago care who the President of the school is? ZERO that is how many. Everyday students are influenced by sports and that plays as big a role as anything in MU's success.

MU's success goes way beyond actracting students be winning basketball games.  There is also successful academics...fund-raising...managing the hundreds of millions of resources at its disposal.  A good President develops an atmosphere and an organization that does that all.  Believe me, MU can survive without a good basketball coach.  MU would die without a good president.

[THEGYMBAR]

jce---Look at the hire. That is UWW comparison. No other D1 program had any inclination to contact Buzz. Why did Cottingham? Because he does not know anything about running a D1 program.

[THEGYMBAR]

Pakuni---My point is that there are 500 people that could replace Wild and be successful. He did not invent fundraising. Lets compare fundraising pre Wade and post Wade. People give money to winners. If MU was bottom 25 team does Strong write the same checks? Does Keyes give $7 million? Both are MAJOR MU basketball fans. Keyes has been going to games for decades.

Big donors love the attention. Fr. Wild is not why MU has grown their endowment the past decade. He has facilitated the process. The word process---think Wild has a process in his fundraising? Yep, after 2003 FF he called every big donor and asked if they watched MU beat Kentucky. But, he did have a process and it worked.

[77ncaachamps]

Come on! Al McGure was a great college player, had success as a coach at Dartmouth and Belmont and...oh yeah...PLAYED IN THE NBA!!! He had a fantastic amount of experience.

I'm not too sure if TEAL should have been used in your statement because - as we've seen with Isaiah Thomas - NBA experience doesn't translate into coaching success.

If that were so, Chris Crawford - who has more years on Al - would be a superb coach!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Those of you who say you are criticizing the process not the hire are full of it.  worse, you are setting yourselves up to be right nomtter how Buzz does.

He does poorly (in your estimation) your response, "see we told you so, the process was flawed."

He does well, your response, " MU was so lucky he did well since, the process was flawed."

Give it up.

Not the case at all.  Marquette, coming off 3 straight NCAAs, three straight national rankings, should not be in a position of having to make a risky hire within 72 hours.  That is and always has been the issue.

Has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with Buzz.  I hope like hell he will succeed, but MU did not have to make that risky of a hire THAT FAST.  This is what national pundits are saying and this is what many MU fans are saying.  Has NOTHING to do with "being right"...who gives a crap.  This isn't about being right or wrong, it's about what MU could have done, what their ambitions are, how parochial they remain, etc.

That's what it is about.  Nothing more.

Just when you think they have cleared a hurdle of parochialism, they come climbing back to it time and again....and quickly.  They did it for the AD at such an alarming degree it is scary.  They did it with the hiring of the Provost.  They did it with the hiring of the basketball coach. 

That doesn't mean these people can't succeed, but it certainly opens themselves up to plenty of questioning and to ignore that is being naive.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No you don't.  You want him to fail so you can come back on the board and say "I told you so, I am smarter than Cottingham".

Oh that's such a pile of BS Irwin it's incredible.  NO ONE wants Buzz to fail.  Absolutely no one.

This isn't about being wrong or being right....you're being childish to frame it in those terms.  You sound like our politicians on both sides with that crap.


It's about asking a legitimate question....why with Marquette having gone to 3 straight NCAA tournaments, 3 straight top 25 finishes, etc, etc is MU making a risky hire?  WHY?  That is a legitimate question that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Buzz's success or failure, and certainly NOTHING to do with our collective hopes of fielding a continued successful basketball program.

NO ONE wants Buzz to fail.   PERIOD!  Many people want to know how they got to putting out feelers for two very qualified and solid coaches (NCAA tournament experienced coach, head coaches, winning record, good recruiters, etc) and then completely do a 180 (not a NCAA experienced coach, not a head coach, not a winning record...but is a good recruiter when recruiting for a coach that met those previous qualifications)....and all in 72 hours.

IS THAT NOT A FAIR QUESTION?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Double agree.  CrackedSidewalks and the others want Buzz to fail so they can come back to us people who have never been involved in "process" and tell us they were right.  It is a shame that fans and alums refuse to get behind this coach and program. 

CrackedSidewalks isn't one voice, but many voices.  There are disagreements with the various writers there, to say CS wants Buzz to fail is the epitome of stupidity.  No one wants him to fail that writes for CS, and secondly not everyone that writes for CS even agrees it was a poor process.  Several writers do, but not CS as a whole since CS isn't taking any stance...just one writer (NY Warrior's) opinion.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yep. That's what I've been saying for three weeks. I think it's very safe to assume that the process zealots around here wouldn't blink had MU hired Sean Miller or Tony Bennett without first conducting a "national search" over several weeks.

You're right, because certain people go above the "process" and those two would be them.  Besides, how is going after Tony Bennett not part of a national search?  The problem was the national search ended in 36 hours.

Secondly, your words about hoping Buzz fails is some of the most ridiculous logic I have seen from you.  You are usually a level headed guy with reasoned opinions, but that one is flat out crazy.

"Even during the season, it became clear to me he'd be a high-major coach," Cottingham said. "I just didn't expect it would be at Marquette."   Neither did 72% of MU fans in a recent poll or most national basketball pundits.  And who knew Cottingham was such an evaluator of assistant coach talent....who knew.  I'll bet he could identify a future major law firm partner with a room full of paralegals like no one else.   

[Pakuni]

NO ONE wants Buzz to fail.   PERIOD!  Many people want to know how they got to putting out feelers for two very qualified and solid coaches (NCAA tournament experienced coach, head coaches, winning record, good recruiters, etc) and then completely do a 180 (not a NCAA experienced coach, not a head coach, not a winning record...but is a good recruiter when recruiting for a coach that met those previous qualifications)....and all in 72 hours.

IS THAT NOT A FAIR QUESTION?

It's a fair question, with an obvious answer that's been given time and time again ... only some people plug their errors and refuse to accept it as the answer. The answer is this: after Bennett and Miller (and perhaos Grant) said no, the administration/Cottingham believed Buzz was the next best option.
You may not like that. You may not agree. But that is the answer.
And if that was the decision made, what point is there for them to continue the search process?
Would you go shopping for car, decide on which one you wanted, and then go test drive seven others "just in case"? What would be the point? You've already decided which one you wanted.
Much the same, the administration decided Buzz was the guy they wanted and, as a result, felt it was no longer necessary to test drive other candidates.
Again, you may not agree with that decision. That's fine. But this incessant whining over the "process" is ridiculous.
If there's a problem here, it's the choice, not the process.

[tower912]

The only two coaches that might have united the MU nation turned them down.   Next options were mid-major coaches or high level assistants.   Buzz had been both.    He presented his vision of MU basketball and how we wanted to get there.   He sold Cottingham and Wild.   Is he riskier than Dawkins, than Brownell, than Lowery?   Perhaps, but not much.  
      So, now, lets attack the process.   Fair enough.    Cottingham didn't want the job initially, but Wild wanted Cottingham and pressed him until he said yes.  If Cords had stuck around two more years, and hired Buzz in the same timeframe, would there still be the uproar?    Buzz convinced Cords, too.    And finally, I will say this.  
       We, as hardcore MU basketball fans, believe our job in the BEast is a destination.   Apparently, we are the only ones who do.   The same national media types that Chico references that are saying we rushed a risky hire are the same ones that sang TC's praises and believe that TC made the program what it is, not the other way around.    They think he is a pretty good coach who raised our program to heights not seen in 25-30 years and that IU got a great one.   They don't give a damn about our whiny asses. They don't see all the flaws we see now as the jilted.    They think his failure to recruit bigs is a symptom of being at MU.   They think his game planning shortcomings are a result of being unable to bring a balanced roster to MU.   They believe he will be able to recruit nationally successfully at IU and win the right way there.   They believe that MU was holding him back, not the other way around.
    So, rail against the process.   Be prepared to say 'I told you so'.  Blame the Jesuits who run our institution of higher learning for making choices and decisions consistent with their nature and the nature of the Catholic church.  Because we will be able to change the nature of Jesuits by complaining enough on an MU basketball site.
      The die is cast, the adventure begins.   Lets man up just a little bit and see what happens before we out-whine by 17 month old cutting teeth.

[Pakuni]

Secondly, your words about hoping Buzz fails is some of the most ridiculous logic I have seen from you.  You are usually a level headed guy with reasoned opinions, but that one is flat out crazy.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.
When did I say anything about anyone hoping Buzz fails?
I think you're confusing me with someone else.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's a fair question, with an obvious answer that's been given time and time again ... only some people refuse to plug their errors and refuse to accept it as the answer. The answer is this: after Bennett and Miller (and perhaos Grant) said no, the administration/Cottingham believed Buzz was the next best option.
You may not like that. You may not agree. But that is the answer.
And if that was the decision made, what point is there for them to continue the search process?
Would you go shopping for car, decide on which one you wanted, and then go test drive seven others "just in case"? What would be the point? You've already decided which one you wanted.
Much the same, the administration decided Buzz was the guy they wanted and, as a result, felt it was no longer necessary to test drive other candidates.
Again, you may not agree with that decision. That's fine. But this incessant whining over the "process" is ridiculous.
If there's a problem here, it's the choice, not the process.

And you may not like it, but none of us want him to fail.....your insinuations to the contrary.


You want to know what I think really happened, MU was shot down by Bennett and Miller so fast it made their heads spin.  They then decided they didn't want to go through being shot down again so they went with someone they knew would never say no because he was in no position to say no.

So instead of having a set of balls, they went for the easy hire.  Damage control essentially.  They didn't want to be turned down again.

I'd bet my house that's what happened and from what I've been able to find out internally, my house isn't going anywhere.  So yes, it's still about process....he became default guy because they didn't want to be harmed or preceived to turned down.  Wow, what a great "process" to hire your next coach.  Instead of saying "we don't give a crap" if that happens (a few folks turning you down), you keep going through the process.

I remember UCLA being humbled by 5 guys saying no and people were ripping on UCLA as a result.  They ended up with Harrick who just happened to win a national title.  They kept to it.

I remember USC being turned down time and again, they kept to it and hire Pete Carroll.  It took them a month to hire him, including being turned down by plenty, taking some cheap shots but so what....they had a stomach to try to get the best guy they could.  They went after Billotti...and that fell through.  They went after Erickson...that fell through.  They went after Riley...that fell through.  They got their 4th choice, some guy named Pete Carroll.

MU cowered after the first two said no and so quickly and they ran for cover. 

[tower912]

Cowered, or decided, after interviewing Buzz, that no one out there who would be interested was significantly better?

[THEGYMBAR]

Tower---Our job is a destination job for many coaches. Is a destination job for Buzz? My guess is he never dreamt he would be a BE coach. This hire was made by inexperienced and unqualified people. The help from the BOT and MU ball "insiders" was nonexistent. Cords will was successful because he got a ton of outside help from former players and other ball people.

I want Buzz to succeed because I love watching MU and want them to win. People can question the process without ripping Buzz. Honestly I think everyone to a man does not blame Buzz for anything. What is he supposed to do say "are you sure you want to hire me?" The whole process was a joke and Cottingham defended it shows what a joke it was.

[THEGYMBAR]

Take Buzz out of the picture and look it objectively. I cannot believe there is one person that could defend the lack of professionalism in this hire. It is laughable for anyone to defend the process used in this hire.

[bma725]

Take Buzz out of the picture and look it objectively. I cannot believe there is one person that could defend the lack of professionalism in this hire. It is laughable for anyone to defend the process used in this hire.

If you take Buzz out of the hire, then the main complaint about the process goes away.  The only valid reason to complain about the process is that you don't like the result of it.  If a 72 hour process resulted in getting a name coach that people wanted like Larry Brown or Mike Montgomery or Trent Johnson then the amount of time it took to get them wouldn't mean a thing.  You can't just categorically say that the process is bad regardless of the result, it doesn't work like that.

[ATWizJr]

The professionalism of this hire?  

i believe this was not cottingham's decision alone.  Fr. Wild, Bill Cords who hired TC and is quite experienced, and many others were involved.  If this was a Cords hire would ther be all this wailing and whining?  I doubt it.  To al large extent, because of his involvement, Cords had a huge hand in this, so let's stop assigning blame to an "inexperienced new AD who panicked" and realize the collaborative aspect of this hire.

Niv, nice try.

[THEGYMBAR]

bma---If they had hired one of those guys in 72 hours it would have proved a process was in place. A list of names, in person interviews and firm contract talks. Unfortunately MU did not talk to anybody in person or offer a contract. Professional hires happen quickly. A school knows who they want and they go get one of the top three, if not a backup plan. MU had no backup plan...so they called Buzz back.

A complete lack of professionalism and no concern of fan reaction.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cowered, or decided, after interviewing Buzz, that no one out there who would be interested was significantly better?

More like they didn't want to take another hit of someone else turning them down....they were in PR mode at that point.  Let's hope it works out, he's certainly a hard enough worker that he has a good chance to.

[IrwinFletcher]

Oh that's such a pile of BS Irwin it's incredible.  NO ONE wants Buzz to fail.  Absolutely no one.

This isn't about being wrong or being right....you're being childish to frame it in those terms.  You sound like our politicians on both sides with that crap.

The fact that some people can't stop talking about it, makes me believe otherwise.

It's about asking a legitimate question....why with Marquette having gone to 3 straight NCAA tournaments, 3 straight top 25 finishes, etc, etc is MU making a risky hire?  WHY?  That is a legitimate question that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Buzz's success or failure, and certainly NOTHING to do with our collective hopes of fielding a continued successful basketball program.

NO ONE wants Buzz to fail.   PERIOD!  Many people want to know how they got to putting out feelers for two very qualified and solid coaches (NCAA tournament experienced coach, head coaches, winning record, good recruiters, etc) and then completely do a 180 (not a NCAA experienced coach, not a head coach, not a winning record...but is a good recruiter when recruiting for a coach that met those previous qualifications)....and all in 72 hours.

So because they looked at two very qualified head coaches, that meant that they couldn't look at assistants?  Why is that a 180?  Could they only go down one path and look at certain criteria?  Then they would be blamed for going thru the process with blinders on.  They went after the top two candidates and didn't get it done.  They considered the field of other coaches and compared them to Buzz and felt he was a better hire.  Why can't it be left at that?  Maybe they should have gone thru the process done by Bill Cords to hire Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane.  Maybe that would have been better.
IS THAT NOT A FAIR QUESTION?

[IrwinFletcher]

More like they didn't want to take another hit of someone else turning them down....they were in PR mode at that point.  Let's hope it works out, he's certainly a hard enough worker that he has a good chance to.

That is your opinion. 

And how many times have we seen it written that it is embarrassing for a program when they are turned down multiple times (Providence).