Interesting interview with Bennie Seltzer about MU and recruiting

[Pakuni]

Steve Lavin was a great recruiter, as an example.  Mike Jarvis was a great recruiter.  Steve Fischer.  Many others that seemed to struggle on the X's and O's.  

Let's hope Buzz can do both...we'll find out eventually one way or the other

I think most MU fans would be thrilled with the kind of results Steve Lavin had in Westwood. Six straight NCAA appearances, five Sweet Sixteens, one Elite Eight, 145 wins against 78 losses, etc.
Those may be disappointing results to the spoiled lot at UCLA, but most of us would take it.

Funny you mention Jarvis, because by and large that's exactly the kind of guy you've been calling for here. He was a tremendous mid-major success and a proven head coach when St. John's hired him. Unfortunately, the pressures of big-time college basketball got he best of him.

As for Groce ... I think he would have made for an excellent candidate.
But I don't see how you can gripe for weeks about Buzz's lack of experience and how MU didn't go after a proven head coach, then pine for a career assistant with less experience than the guy MU chose.
Ultimately, though, we don't know whether he was interested or whether MU had any interest in him.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think most MU fans would be thrilled with the kind of results Steve Lavin had in Westwood. Six straight NCAA appearances, five Sweet Sixteens, one Elite Eight, 145 wins against 78 losses, etc.
Those may be disappointing results to the spoiled lot at UCLA, but most of us would take it.

Funny you mention Jarvis, because by and large that's exactly the kind of guy you've been calling for here. He was a tremendous mid-major success and a proven head coach when St. John's hired him. Unfortunately, the pressures of big-time college basketball got he best of him.

As for Groce ... I think he would have made for an excellent candidate.
But I don't see how you can gripe for weeks about Buzz's lack of experience and how MU didn't go after a proven head coach, then pine for a career assistant with less experience than the guy MU chose.
Ultimately, though, we don't know whether he was interested or whether MU had any interest in him.

Actually, I said Groce because you asked the question about who is a potentially better recruiter...that was my answer.

As for Lavin...yeah, definitely had some successes but had many losses like our loss to Louisville (without Diener) in those periods as well.  40 point losses, along with flameouts as a 3 seed early in the tournament.  Losing to Princeton and such doesn't go over well either. 

And actually Jarvis wouldn't at all fit what I've been calling for the last weeks.  I've been calling for a solid coach, Jarvis was never known as that at the mid major level.  He was always known as a great recruiter and that's what scares me.  A solid coach, like Brownwell, etc means you're always in the game but to your point (and I recognize the validity of it), it means potentially having to beat teams with less talent.

That's why I wanted some that could do both...yeah, tall order.  That's why I wanted MU to try a little harder to poke around to try and find an existing coach that met those credentials (a Bruce Weber for example).  But just because I was also willing to go midmajor (Keno Davis, Brownwell, etc), let's not make the assumption that I wanted any old midmajor...I wanted a coach (i.e not in name only, someone that knew what they were doing) from that level first, not a Mike Jarvis type.  Not a Bobby Gonzalez type.

[Marquette84]

.I wanted a coach (i.e not in name only, someone that knew what they were doing) from that level first, not a Mike Jarvis type.  Not a Bobby Gonzalez type.

What would you have asked Mike Jarvis or Bobby Gonzalez during the interview to determine that they weren't the type you were looking for.

Before they were hired by SJU or St. John's respectively, they had shown the same level of success and potential that Brad Brownell and Keno Davis show today.

So if we had used Harvey Wallbanger's "diamond tipped drill bit" to dig deep into Keno Davis or Brad Brownell, what questions would you have asked, and what answers would have assured you, that neither guy is like Jarvis or Gonzalez?

[MUBasketball]

How about the Groce, the associate head coach from Ohio State? He has helped recruit much better classes than Williams, is more familiar with the Midwest and has far more experience at high D1 than Williams. Did he not warrant an interview? He's much more qualified than Buzz Williams, that's for sure. Do you not think he'd take more than $1 million annually to coach Marquette?

Or how about Mark Montgomery from Michigan State, if you want to stick with MSU assistants.

That's just two guys who would be more understandable than an assistant we grabbed because Crean had trouble filling out his staff last year. Then again, it's not my job to find qualifed candidates. But I do know an unqualified candidate when I see one.

Why do you guys not admit we were too lazy to look around? It's so obvious it's not even funny. Marquette fans shouldn't be apprehensive, we should be legitimately angry.

It's like somebody let Cottingham take their brand new Cadillac for a drive and he brought it back with a smashed windshield, one headlight, no taillights, an empty gas tank and a couple of discarded condoms in the backseat.

Wow. So let me get this straight...Ohio State assistant John Groce and Michigan State assistant Mark Montgomery are both better options to be Marquette's head coach than Buzz Williams?

Those guys are both perfectly qualified to lead this program, but Buzz isn't? You're making yourself look plain silly.

Now, that's not to say Groce won't be a good head coach in time. I believe he will be. But what makes him any more qualified than Buzz?

I laugh when people start criticizing Buzz's recruiting during arguments. People must really dislike the hire if they are questioning that aspect of him as well. He's got a track record at various stops in this department. Did Groce have to land top classes at Colorado State or Texas A&M (following a winless Big 12 campaign?). Does Groce have experience recruiting as a head coach? No.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What would you have asked Mike Jarvis or Bobby Gonzalez during the interview to determine that they weren't the type you were looking for.

Before they were hired by SJU or St. John's respectively, they had shown the same level of success and potential that Brad Brownell and Keno Davis show today.

So if we had used Harvey Wallbanger's "diamond tipped drill bit" to dig deep into Keno Davis or Brad Brownell, what questions would you have asked, and what answers would have assured you, that neither guy is like Jarvis or Gonzalez?

Actually I disagree with assertion.  Jarvis, first of all, I wouldn't have touched because he already had a shady reputation to begin with and that ultimately bit him in the butt at St. John's.

Here are the differences as I see them.  Keno and Brownwell....zero losing seasons...EVER.  Both have ALWAYS finished in the top 3 in their conference all but 1 season.

Brownwell conference coach of the year in two different conferences.  NCAAs in two different schools.

Davis national coach of the year, etc.

Not a hint of impropriety by either one of them.

That cannot be said of Jarvis, so my interview wouldn't even have taken place with him.  

For Gonzo, I'd ask why the dismal showing in 2005.  Why the two losing seasons to start the career.  What has coaching in the 22nd rated conference in the country (some years worse during his tenure, some better) to prepare you night in and night out?    (I find the Missouri Valley, Colonial Athletic Association and Horizon to be much better leagues...MUCH BETTER).  I'd also ask why the antics and perception that he was a jerk (which has totally proven to be the case at Seton Hall) and why that internal belief by many ADs kept him at Manhattan years after he tried to escape (because the ADs knew).

[Pakuni]

Actually I disagree with assertion.  Jarvis, first of all, I wouldn't have touched because he already had a shady reputation to begin with and that ultimately bit him in the butt at St. John's.

Here are the differences as I see them.  Keno and Brownwell....zero losing seasons...EVER.  Both have ALWAYS finished in the top 3 in their conference all but 1 season.

I mean, come on. Really?
Keno has ONE season as a head coach. That's your sample size?
Of course, by these standards, you may not have considered Bill Self, Coach K, Al McGuire, Bob Knight and many, many others. All had losing seasons early in their careers. And, to the best of my knowledge, none of them coached at a school ravaged by hurricane.

And I think I've already shown that winning national coach of the year doesn't mean much in terms of future success. Past winners include Randy Ayers, Cliff Ellis, Clem Haskins, Larry Eustacy and Kelvin Sampson.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I mean, come on. Really?
Keno has ONE season as a head coach. That's your sample size?
Of course, by these standards, you may not have considered Bill Self, Coach K, Al McGuire, Bob Knight and many, many others. All had losing seasons early in their careers. And, to the best of my knowledge, none of them coached at a school ravaged by hurricane.

And I think I've already shown that winning national coach of the year doesn't mean much in terms of future success. Past winners include Randy Ayers, Cliff Ellis, Clem Haskins, Larry Eustacy and Kelvin Sampson.

Kelvin Sampson, Larry Eustacy, Clem Haskins, and Randy Ayers all did very well in W's and L's, it was personal failings that took them down.  Cliff Ellis, not sure why you brought him up....he's at the tail end of his career but the guy has won over 500 games, an ACC title, SEC title, Sunbelt, etc, etc.  Is he a "great coach"...no, but one that has had a distinguished career.  ACC coach of the year twice, SEC coach of the year twice.  He was coaching at Clemson and Auburn...two football schools in conferences where the football schools tend to be up and down compared to the Dukes, Wake Forests, North Carolinas, Kentuckys, Vanderbilts, etc.

We could play this game all day if you'd like...plenty of national coach of the years that did terrific as well that came from smaller schools.  Bo Ryan won it this year.  Ben Howland won it last year.  Tubby Smith a few years ago (was at Tulsa at one point) Coach K, Coach Knight,  Etc, etc.  I'll bet far more national coach of the years have been successful then not, especially when you pull out the "unsuccessful" ones that failed due to their own ethical problems and not on their X's and O's.  I guess I don't view a National Coach of the Year award as something to be dismissed as inconsequential.  I'd rather have a guy be a head coach at the mid level, cut his teeth, prove to be a winner and then move him up.  That's my preference, it's not yours...that's fine.  We can both find examples supporting our positions.

Yes, Keno has only one year....but it was a damn good year wasn't it....better than some others in their one year.    He took a near .500 team and improved them dramatically. He also has many many years as an assistant attached to very good coaches...his dad, Bruce Pearl, etc. 

[Pakuni]

  I guess I don't view a National Coach of the Year award as something to be dismissed as inconsequential. 

I haven't said it's inconsequential. But you've brought it repeatedly as some sort of evidence that Keno Davis is a great hire/will do well at Providence. So I'm merely pointing out - with numerous examples - that winning a coach of the year award by no means portends future success. All it means is Keno Davis had a great 2007-08 at Drake. And he did. It doesn't mean that success will translate at Providence. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't.

Yes, Keno has only one year....but it was a damn good year wasn't it....better than some others in their one year.     

You really believe Davis' situation at Drake last year and Buzz's situation at UNO were remotely comparable?