Local kids or bust

[Chili]

chili, your statement is more valid if you give me an example of what a better idea. And dont say Mu is a big east team so recruit the nation. In '09 who could Marquette ligitimately convince to come here from out of state?

chicago is more local than most of wisconsin. for fucks sake, we have one kid from wisconsin on the team this year and three from texas. i have a feeling that chicago is more important as they have far more talent and mu is more relevant there than say appleton.

[Pakuni]

chicago is more local than most of wisconsin. for fracks sake, we have one kid from wisconsin on the team this year and three from texas. i have a feeling that chicago is more important as they have far more talent and mu is more relevant there than say appleton.

Correct, you are.
I'd venture to guess that more D-I talent comes out of the Chicago city limits (leaving out the suburbs) on a yearly basis than the entire state of Wisconsin. Toss in the 'burbs, and it's probably along the lines of 3- or 4-to-1.
Also, as you say, Marquette probably is better known and more respected in the Chicago area than in places like Eau Claire, LaCrosse and Stevens Point.

[Wareagle]

Correct, you are.
I'd venture to guess that more D-I talent comes out of the Chicago city limits (leaving out the suburbs) on a yearly basis than the entire state of Wisconsin. Toss in the 'burbs, and it's probably along the lines of 3- or 4-to-1.
Also, as you say, Marquette probably is better known and more respected in the Chicago area than in places like Eau Claire, LaCrosse and Stevens Point.

I agree.  UW doesn't have a single player from Wisconsin in their five player '08 class.  They don't have one in '09 in their two player class.  Under Bo Ryan they have picked off starters from Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois and South Dakota.  Marquette and UW have to recruit an area larger than this state for the same reason that portfolio analysts diversify their stock holdings.  You can't put all your eggs in one basket in college basketball recruiting. 

The other thing everyone needs to keep in mind is that, as Mark Miller pointed out, there is a realistic possibility that some of MU's Wisconsin recruits may not qualify.  I was encouraged by the additional names of recruits bma listed in another thread.  Buzz' recruiting class should be judged on the quality of the players he brings in and whether or not they fill needs.  I would be happy to accept recruits from Jupiter if they can play the point. 

[RawdogDX]

Exactally

Yes, exactly and that's not enough to field a team.  If you get 2/3rds of that 1 or 2 a year you won't have enough.  And it is hard to recruit the entire nation but MN, IL, IN and now TX should all be area's we focus on.

[Mayor McCheese]

AnotherMU---Take away the top five programs and every other program wants to get in state kids first. Calipari is coaching in Memphis for a reason....top talent in state every year. Getting the best in state kids makes a statement. In addition, the in state kids are the building blocks.

Of course you need out of state kids and some years out of state are better than in state. Again, it is far easier for Buzz and Co. to be Maymon or Wilson's games than games in TX for fourth team all state players.

IMO in state or local players means within a couple hundred miles. THat is where I would start from and then if program gains in stature you move further away.

Gymbar.... On Memphis roster last year there were 3 players from Tennessee, Andre Allen, Pierre Niles and Willie Kemp

the three combined for 9 points a game, and none started...

am not saying that in-state players aren't important, but please, please, don't just throw out information when you have no clue.  Makes me have to look it up, since I knew you were wrong

Memphis starting 5 last year

Rose - Chicago, IL
CDR - Detroit, MI
Antonio Anderson - Lynn, MA
Robert Dozier - Lithonia, GA
Joey Dorsey - Baltimore, MD

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/roster?teamId=235


like I stated, getting Wilson, Lacy, Maymon would be fantastic, but it isn't nearly the end of the world.

[THEGYMBAR]

Mayor---My point on Memphis is that is great recruiting grounds. Of course you need outside players than the city you play in. Calipari has the luxury to recruit everywhere and he does. But, if there is McDonald's AA in Memphis my bet is on him.

I have said a dozen times we need to recruit everywhere. Buzz is recruiting TX because he is familiar there. I say get familiar in WI, IL and elsewhere. Buzz recruiting in TX makes my point better than I do. He recruits there because he is comfortable there. He is now a head coach of a BE school in Milwaukee. I would get familiar here in a hurry.

[bleedbluegold03]

chicago is more local than most of wisconsin. for fracks sake, we have one kid from wisconsin on the team this year and three from texas. i have a feeling that chicago is more important as they have far more talent and mu is more relevant there than say appleton.

Chilli Give names. Generalizing makes your point hollow. Give me a recruit, just one who has expressed interest in Marquette for '09 and ONLY '09 from the Chicago area. You keep talking about the broad picture for the next few years and I AGREE WITH YOU.  Stop arguing against a point I am not making. IN '09 ONLY the state of Wisconsin is the key.

[Chili]

Chilli Give names. Generalizing makes your point hollow. Give me a recruit, just one who has expressed interest in Marquette for '09 and ONLY '09 from the Chicago area. You keep talking about the broad picture for the next few years and I AGREE WITH YOU.  Stop arguing against a point I am not making. IN '09 ONLY the state of Wisconsin is the key.

yes sir almighty i bleed blue gold. damnit i am right.

[THEGYMBAR]

Buzz's stature rises or falls based on '09 WI kids. Gets them he and the program move forward in a real positive way. If we end up three top 75-125 players from down south the '10 recruiting year is much tougher.

It almost seems to me that some fans have given up on the Big Three '09 WI kids because of a fear it won't happen. Would you put higher importance on getting them if we had a seasoned coach? If yes, why is Buzz treated differently.

KO came here and got Mac, Damon and Robb when it was a much bigger longshot. Those three concluded their careers in the sweet 16. KO got them because he was not going to take no. I am afraid Buzz is afraid of not getting them and hedging his bet. Again, Majerus losing Wolf sucked...but he pt the fullcourt press on. Buzz putting fullcourt press on the Big Three and failing would disappoint less than an Evan Anderson effort would.

[MarkMiller]

Keep in mind there is a very real possilibity two of the three in state recruits will not qualify. Saying Buzz's stature rises of falls based on the 2009 state kids is completely off the mark. His stature could indeed rise or fall based on the four scholarships he awards in 2008/2009, regardless of the zip code.

[Wareagle]

Keep in mind there is a very real possilibity two of the three in state recruits will not qualify. Saying Buzz's stature rises of falls based on the 2009 state kids is completely off the mark. His stature could indeed rise or fall based on the four scholarships he awards in 2008/2009, regardless of the zip code.

Thank you Mark, I don't know how many times this has to be mentioned, but obviously it hasn't sunk in yet.

[rocky_warrior]

Buzz's stature rises or falls based on '09 WI kids. Gets them he and the program move forward in a real positive way. If we end up three top 75-125 players from down south the '10 recruiting year is much tougher.

Recruiting for Buzz will come down to how well the team performs in the next two years.  Regardless of who he gets to commit for '09, if the team we have wins that year, the stigma of an inexperienced coach goes away.

You're pushing the issue two much.  Those specific Wisconsin recruits don't matter for Marquette.  How the team Buzz puts on the court performs - that's what will determine "our" future.

[Pakuni]

Recruiting for Buzz will come down to how well the team performs in the next two years.  Regardless of who he gets to commit for '09, if the team we have wins that year, the stigma of an inexperienced coach goes away.

I'm not so sure about that.

Tom Crean and Kevin O'Neill landed quality recruiting classes even after hovering  around .500 their first couple of seasons.
I think we as fans fret far more over "the stigma of an inexperienced coach" far more than the vast majority of 16- and 17-year-old kids will.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Keep in mind there is a very real possilibity two of the three in state recruits will not qualify. Saying Buzz's stature rises of falls based on the 2009 state kids is completely off the mark. His stature could indeed rise or fall based on the four scholarships he awards in 2008/2009, regardless of the zip code.

+1000

What if they don't qualify? Does that ruin Buzz's career?

Get real guys. 

[detroitwarrior]

It's important to strongly recruit the 09 Wisconsin kids even if Buzz comes up short to send a message to all future in state kids that are studs that Marquette wants them and also send a message to out of state Coaches who come to Wisconsin to recruit that they are going to have to work hard to get these kids.

[Daniel]

Well, more than likely it is an issue that Buzz is unproven - and that may cause some great players to glance off our attempts to get them.  So how do we get around that?  What can Buxx do?  Prove himself.  that;s it.  I can't remember how Crean did his first and second year recruiting - assistant from Izzo, unproven.  Let's compare who he got to what Buzz could get. . .I think Buzz will pan out and do well, but he does have to prove himself to get top players thinking I want to play for him.

[bma725]

I can't remember how Crean did his first and second year recruiting - assistant from Izzo, unproven.  Let's compare who he got to what Buzz could get. . .I think Buzz will pan out and do well, but he does have to prove himself to get top players thinking I want to play for him.

Crean's first two classes of his own recruits(meaning not Krunti) were a mixed bag.  The first year was IMO his best class: Wade, Merritt, Sanders and Blankson.  The second year was both good and bad: Diener, Townsend, Menard and Howard....and I guess you could include Rob Jackson in that as well.

[MUDPT]

From Illinois, I'd go after Sean Pratl from Richards.  He's only 6'8", but is supposedly good and is from DWade's defending state championship high school.

[Daniel]

Crean's first two classes of his own recruits(meaning not Krunti) were a mixed bag.  The first year was IMO his best class: Wade, Merritt, Sanders and Blankson.  The second year was both good and bad: Diener, Townsend, Menard and Howard....and I guess you could include Rob Jackson in that as well.

Not a bad first year - Blankson was good, and would have helped us the Final Four year had he not trasnferred.  I also recall TC lost at least one recruit a year for a while - which was tough - good ones sometimes (like Blankson).

Well, let's see how Buzz does his first year - I hope we start hearing some great commits soon!  Thanks for the info.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not so sure about that.

Tom Crean and Kevin O'Neill landed quality recruiting classes even after hovering  around .500 their first couple of seasons.
I think we as fans fret far more over "the stigma of an inexperienced coach" far more than the vast majority of 16- and 17-year-old kids will.

On that I'd agree....getting them to come won't be effected that much by his inexperience.

[nola03]

I'm not so sure about that.

Tom Crean and Kevin O'Neill landed quality recruiting classes even after hovering  around .500 their first couple of seasons.
I think we as fans fret far more over "the stigma of an inexperienced coach" far more than the vast majority of 16- and 17-year-old kids will.

Of course, O'Neill and Crean didn't enter MU when they were attempting to compete at this level. Crean was top 5 all three years. Buzz has to stay at that level. That's why there's angst.

[bleedbluegold03]

yes sir almighty i bleed blue gold. damnit i am right.

I apologize for being rather direct. Im just as big of a Marquette fan as you are otherwise we wouldn't be arguing about something that won't really come to fruition until a half year from now. If you can find me a guy from Chicago who is interested in MU for '09 that would be a welcome surprise for me.

[Pakuni]

Of course, O'Neill and Crean didn't enter MU when they were attempting to compete at this level. Crean was top 5 all three years. Buzz has to stay at that level. That's why there's angst.

That's true.
But, if anything, that works in Buzz's favor, IMO. Unlike KO and Crean, he doesn't need to sell kids on himself as a coach AND a rebuilding program in a lesser conference with poor facilities. The program already is well established and the conference and facilities are top-notch. Buzz only need convince kids he can run a winning program and take their games to the next level.

[Marquette_g]

What Buzz needs is for James and/or McNeal to really elevate their game/s this year and become first round picks.  While Crean will still get some credit, clearly much of the progress that propelled them to first round status will go to Buzz.  He will then have a name and example to point at when he is trying to convince recruits what he can do for their game.  Add this to his demonstrated ability at buidling relationships and he could have some nice scores in the future. 

I recognize this is not easily accomplished as it would seem James and McNeal both have some flaws they need to correct to really get a real chance at the next level. 

[THEGYMBAR]

The pressure on Buzz far outweighs KO or TC's start. KO inherited garbage and did not know any better than just go out and sell himself, which he did extremely well. TC inherited a mid level program and performed very well at recruiting. Buzz inherits a top 20 team and high expectations.

I agree 100% that high school kids do not care if he is experienced or not. Buzz gets no do overs if he fails. TC/MU put Buzz in a nearly impossible position to succeed. I am pulling for him and he does get it done. This upcoming recruiting season is more important than how we do next year.

I stated when the hiring process concluded that next season is only important to the kids on the team if you look at the big picture. Not to bring up a bad subject but I would have sacrificed next season when hiring a coach to win 3-5 from now at a bigger level.