Tony Bennett earns a "whopping" $1 million per year

[ChicosBailBonds]

The only issue is did MU get the person they believed to be the best candidate according to their specifications.

Well, if you ask them, they do believe they got the best candidate according to "their" specs.  The real question is, did they get the best candidate they could have....we'll never know. 

I do have one disagreement with Rawdog....that 8 days should be more like 4 days....they decided on Buzz during the weekend even if the official announcement didn't come out until a few days later.  4 days....I don't know if Blockbuster can process a membership application in four days but it is what it is.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

For whatever reasons one chooses to believe, MU f'ed up the entire hiring process and that cannot be logically argued.

Hey, we've just got different opinions... and there is no need to argue that.

I'm just curious how the TB situation really supports or proves anything about MU as some people are trying to imply.

It's not the smoking gun some people are making it out to be.

That's all. Just trying to be logical... and I'm not seeing the logic in this one.

I didn't mean to fire everybody up.

[RawdogDX]

4ever - did this all happen on a grassy knoll?

Let's face it 4ever, he has us, obviously MU searched far and wide carefully evaluating every possible candidate, and interviewed many of them, I heard they even conducted web interviews via web cam so that none of the multitudes of coaches had to come to Milwaukee.  This was all done through back channels, which can't be made fun of for sounding like a conspiracy because he is being positive.  So he's able to reference behind the scenes moves and obviously anything positive has nothing to do with grassy knolls thus we are crazy and he is correct.

[RawdogDX]

I do have one disagreement with Rawdog....that 8 days should be more like 4 days....they decided on Buzz during the weekend even if the official announcement didn't come out until a few days later.  4 days....I don't know if Blockbuster can process a membership application in four days but it is what it is.

You are completely correct.  You know when I typed that post i had put 6 days at first, and then I thought, "No... it couldn't have possibly been that fast."  Thanks for rememinding me how much of a snap decision this was for the AD who had never interviewed any basketball coach before.  I'm sure he is a hell of a negotiator when he buys a car as well.

i recently canceled an electronic bill payment that was never cashed, it took 5 days before the money was back in my account.

[4everwarriors]

You are completely correct.  You know when I typed that post i had put 6 days at first, and then I thought, "No... it couldn't have possibly been that fast."  Thanks for rememinding me how much of a snap decision this was for the AD who had never interviewed any basketball coach before.  I'm sure he is a hell of a negotiator when he buys a car as well.

i recently canceled an electronic bill payment that was never cashed, it took 5 days before the money was back in my account.

This also fits the timeline with someone posting that Mrs. Williams was seen purchasing in excess of $1000.00 of MU gear in the Spirit Shop on April 5.

[jficke13]

I know that this thread has a distinctly financial bent, but I for one am thrilled we didn't hire Bennett. We would have had a coach who is loyal to a rival and would have bolted the moment that Dracula, I mean Bo Ryan, left. Also, Bennett-ball is among the most unpleasant things in sports to behold. Do you honestly want to pay for season tickets to watch 24 48-46 wins?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I know that this thread has a distinctly financial bent, but I for one am thrilled we didn't hire Bennett. We would have had a coach who is loyal to a rival and would have bolted the moment that Dracula, I mean Bo Ryan, left. Also, Bennett-ball is among the most unpleasant things in sports to behold. Do you honestly want to pay for season tickets to watch 24 48-46 wins?

I honestly don't know why you think it's a slam dunk that he's going to UW-Madison when Count Chocula retires/dies from complaining on every call to the refs.  There is a history there that works both ways. 

I do understand your point.   I'd still love to know how much MU offered or if it ever got to a point of terms being discussed (one would assume it did or his agent should be fired).  Bennett isn't making that much which is why it's a valid question in my mind. 

[jficke13]

It would definitely be an interesting fact to know, but maybe when considering the possiblility that Bennett would bolt for Madison caused the SC and co. to not consider him as seriously as we all assume/hope they did.

[Bob "Big Daddy" Wild]

To the people hating on the 'process' - what is your honest opinion on these thoughts:

Our overall goal as MU fans is to win a national championship, that being said, I don't think we can do that by bringing in one of the 'big names' that everyone was throwing around.

If we go out and bring in a Bennet, Lowry, Miller, etc - we are doing the same thing that IU did to us, but unfortunately for us, we are not a destination school like IU, and those guys don't have that strong of ties to MU (namely they aren't alums).

If one of the above coaches starts being successful enough where we become championship contenders or even win the Big East, then the big dogs will come calling - and there is a VERY good chance we lose them before achieving the ultimate success we desire.  Since we basically bought them to come here with money and prestige, what do you think will happen when schools with more prestige and just as much (if not more) money come calling?  

If I were selecting our next head coach (from my cubicle in Chicago, ha), I take the coach with the most upside to win a title AND is the most likely to stick around for that to happen.  I think there is a very good chance that Buzz convinced people that he had that best mix of those two, whereas all of our other top choices fell flat in the sticking around department.

I am hoping Buzz is a loyal guy, if that is the case, and he lives up to his 'alleged' recruiting process, I am very happy with the hire.  If not, well, crap, we will be doing this process soon enough again.  I like taking the risk if the POTENTIAL reward is higher.  Bennet, IMO, "doomed" us as a program to stay flat - Crean level success if you will - or a deep tourney run and he bolts.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Tm, before I answer the rest of your question, don't you think if any coach (whether previously successful or a relative unknown) does well the big dogs will come after him?

[The Lens]

I have heard from people close to the program that what 4ever says is very true.  The only thing is he chooses to at times say "donors" plural.  I don't know if it's plural.  I have also heard that most of the group that brought you Gold, was in the dark on this hire.

Of course me sticking up for 4ever is probably seen as Bill O'Rielly calling GW a good president.

[RawdogDX]

If one of the above coaches starts being successful enough where we become championship contenders or even win the Big East, then the big dogs will come calling - and there is a VERY good chance we lose them before achieving the ultimate success we desire.  Since we basically bought them to come here with money and prestige, what do you think will happen when schools with more prestige and just as much (if not more) money come calling?  

There are only 7-9 programs that are significantly more prestigious than mu.  Most don't have job openings very often (ie. duke and UNC) and if one does and the coach we hired is doing well enough for them to go after him that proably means he has been successful and we will have better national rec than we have now and can get another proven coach.

If I were selecting our next head coach (from my cubicle in Chicago, ha), I take the coach with the most upside to win a title AND is the most likely to stick around for that to happen.  I think there is a very good chance that Buzz convinced people that he had that best mix of those two, whereas all of our other top choices fell flat in the sticking around department.

And you would know buzz has more potential to do these things because you would interview candidates and weigh pros and cons right?  ... Yeah, that's what i thought.

I am hoping Buzz is a loyal guy, if that is the case, and he lives up to his 'alleged' recruiting process, I am very happy with the hire.  

Obviously, we are all hoping that as well, and I'm not saying he's a bad choice just that they didn't exercise due diligence.

If not, well, crap, we will be doing this process soon enough again.  I like taking the risk if the POTENTIAL reward is higher.  

Wrong, wrong.  If he does badly then we will have to go after 'diamonds in the rough' candidates rather than the coaches with proven track records we had a better shot at this year.  This year we decided to search for a possible diamond in the rough when we didn't need to look in the rough and could have just gone to Jared like a normal school in our position.

Bennet, IMO, "doomed" us as a program to stay flat - Crean level success if you will - or a deep tourney run and he bolts.

You have no basis for that comment on Bennet.  And let us not act like buzz has been loyalty incarnate through his career. (leaving his last gig after one year)


Once again love buzz as a person, I'll be optimistic as soon as he can show me he can coach a lick and lands a stud pg to take over in 2009

[ATWizJr]

so, if I am reading you correctly, 4ever's claim is that the same "big donor" that put the heat on TC after the Stanford loss and basically, ran him out of town, is now the same "big donor"  that TC called and convinced him to convince MU to hire Buzz?

[rocky_warrior]

I am hoping Buzz is a loyal guy

I hope so too.  But...
1) Until last year, he had no reason to be in Wisconsin
2) He left UNO pretty quickly.

#1 tells me that if he's successful he's likely to move, #2 tells me he's willing to move if he thinks he has better opportunities elsewhere.  Now the funny thing, if he were in TCs shoes, I'd speculate that he wouldn't have taken the IU job.  He has already been in a job where he knew things were gonna' be tough - and left it when he figured out that it was going to be much tougher than advertised (UNO).

[ChicosBailBonds]

To the people hating on the 'process' - what is your honest opinion on these thoughts:

Our overall goal as MU fans is to win a national championship, that being said, I don't think we can do that by bringing in one of the 'big names' that everyone was throwing around.

If we go out and bring in a Bennet, Lowry, Miller, etc - we are doing the same thing that IU did to us, but unfortunately for us, we are not a destination school like IU, and those guys don't have that strong of ties to MU (namely they aren't alums).

If one of the above coaches starts being successful enough where we become championship contenders or even win the Big East, then the big dogs will come calling - and there is a VERY good chance we lose them before achieving the ultimate success we desire.  Since we basically bought them to come here with money and prestige, what do you think will happen when schools with more prestige and just as much (if not more) money come calling?  

If I were selecting our next head coach (from my cubicle in Chicago, ha), I take the coach with the most upside to win a title AND is the most likely to stick around for that to happen.  I think there is a very good chance that Buzz convinced people that he had that best mix of those two, whereas all of our other top choices fell flat in the sticking around department.

I am hoping Buzz is a loyal guy, if that is the case, and he lives up to his 'alleged' recruiting process, I am very happy with the hire.  If not, well, crap, we will be doing this process soon enough again.  I like taking the risk if the POTENTIAL reward is higher.  Bennet, IMO, "doomed" us as a program to stay flat - Crean level success if you will - or a deep tourney run and he bolts.

So to address your questions, I think a hire is largely dictated by the position you are in.  I'm all for assistants when it makes sense.  As I've said, I'm fine with Buzz if other options were exhausted...I just don't think they were.

MU has a top 20 team coming back this year, was paying $1.6 million to the previous guy, etc, etc....in my mind you go after an established coach.  No different then what Illinois did when they hired Weber (yes, someone is going to say he had a terrible year last year...he did, but his recruiting for the next two years is very good and if he had still landed Gordon, they would have made the NCAAs again this past year).   

If your team is down and out, then that's a different kind of hire.  If you're team is on the cusp of taking the next step, then that's a totally different kind of hire.

But I'm not going back on what my original beliefs are....I have no ill will toward Buzz.  Hope like hell he's the guy, want him to succeed, think he can succeed.....I just would have liked a run on another handful of candidates that in my mind were more polished, had a track record (winning) as a head coach, etc.  Whether that was a Lowery, Les, Ford, Brownwell, etc....those would have all been people of interest before I would have gone the Buzz route. 

I don't think you should handcuff yourself in limiting who you are going to go after because they might be taken by a "big dog" in a few years, that's not the way to run a business let alone a successful athletic department.  HIRE THE BEST you can and deal with those issues when they come about.  Don't underhire due to fear.

[4everwarriors]

so, if I am reading you correctly, 4ever's claim is that the same "big donor" that put the heat on TC after the Stanford loss and basically, ran him out of town, is now the same "big donor"  that TC called and convinced him to convince MU to hire Buzz?

That's what I'm saying, Bro, except Strong never "ran" the pinhead out of town. He has wanted out of here in the worst way from the moment the final buzzer went off in New Orleans after having his butt handed to him by the Jayhawks. Its just some folks believed his b.s.

[Marquette84]

I just would have liked a run on another handful of candidates that in my mind were more polished, had a track record (winning) as a head coach, etc.  Whether that was a Lowery, Les, Ford, Brownwell, etc....those would have all been people of interest before I would have gone the Buzz route. 

But what if from the very first momets of the search you determined your criteria was "no mid-major coaches".  

That would not be an unreasonble constraint, given that twice MU has failed by hiring such coaches.  

In that case, interviewing Les, Lowery, Ford, Brownell would be a waste of time, becuase you decided first that none of them would be considerd.  

I know you've made the point that they should have been interviwed--but what would that have accmplished?  Obviously, mid-major coahes can interview quite well (Bob Duket did).  Obviously they can come in with an impressive list of achievements at lower levels (Dukeit's teams were often #1 or 2 in both offense and defense).  Obviously they can put up impressive credentials in recriting (Jersey City in the 1980's was not a garden spot).  On paper, Bob Duket was as impressive as Brad Brownell is today.  What crystal ball do you believe exists that can tell you whether or not Brownell is the next Dukiet?

So the question is whether any amount of intereviewing and research would convince you that Brownell was not just another Bob Dukiet, who would be in over his head?  My guess is no, which is why a sharp line was drawn on interviewing any of them.  MU has had two successful coaches who were assistants at big-time programs, and two failed coaches who were successful head coaches at mid-majors.  And you seem surprised that Brownell, Lowrey, Les, etc. didn't get consideration!  

Once "we're not going to hire a mid-major coach"  becomes a criteria, the ranks become pretty slim--one of the handful of successful major program coaches who we might perceive to be underemployed (Bennett, Miller, Few, Calipari).  Or a major assistant.  

What I've read suggests that the job was floated in front of Bennett and Miller with no interest, and Few took himself out of contention early on.  That mens looking next on your list, which was a major assistant.  Ours.  Who despite all the talk about how we didn't look that long has been in the department for nine months, and has interfaced with fans, boosters, players, recruits, AD office staff, etc.

[Marquette84]

That's what I'm saying, Bro, except Strong never "ran" the pinhead out of town. He has wanted out of here in the worst way from the moment the final buzzer went off in New Orleans after having his butt handed to him by the Jayhawks. Its just some folks believed his b.s.

What bs?  I don't think I ever heard him say that he would be the coach at MU until the day he retired. 

Seriously, what do you expect?  Do you really expect coaches to have a public list of jobs they think are better than the one they currently have.  I can just see what you want:  "I'm the coach at MU for now, but I'm not so much in love with the place that I wouldn't leave for Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, or other similar program."  Yeah, THAT would be good for recruiting.

Obviously he didn't want out badly enough to take $2 mil/year from Arkansas, which WAS offered.   Hmm.  If Crean were so completely disgusted with MU and couldn't wait to get out, wouldn't he have taken that offer? 

In fact, if Crean really wanted out of MU in the worst way, there were no shortage of lateral or slightly downgraded jobs he could have taken at any time.  He could have gone after Tennessee.  Texas A&M.  Nebraska.  West Virginai.   Kansas State.  Xavier.  Michigan.  Iowa.  Missouri.  Baylor.  Georgia Tech.  Miami.  Rutgers.  Stanford.  Arizona State.  St. Johns.  Arkansas.  Vanderbilt.  Washington.  St. Louis.   etc. etc. etc.
For a guy who wanted out in the worst way, there were no shortage of places that he didn't chase. 

I don't think wanting to go to Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA or even Indiana is a sign of "wanting out of here in the worst way" as much as wanting to go after one of the elite jobs in all of college basketball.

[RawdogDX]

What bs?  I don't think I ever heard him say that he would be the coach at MU until the day he retired. 

Seriously, what do you expect?  Do you really expect coaches to have a public list of jobs they think are better than the one they currently have.  I can just see what you want:  "I'm the coach at MU for now, but I'm not so much in love with the place that I wouldn't leave for Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, or other similar program."  Yeah, THAT would be good for recruiting.

Obviously he didn't want out badly enough to take $2 mil/year from Arkansas, which WAS offered.   Hmm.  If Crean were so completely disgusted with MU and couldn't wait to get out, wouldn't he have taken that offer? 

In fact, if Crean really wanted out of MU in the worst way, there were no shortage of lateral or slightly downgraded jobs he could have taken at any time.  He could have gone after Tennessee.  Texas A&M.  Nebraska.  West Virginai.   Kansas State.  Xavier.  Michigan.  Iowa.  Missouri.  Baylor.  Georgia Tech.  Miami.  Rutgers.  Stanford.  Arizona State.  St. Johns.  Arkansas.  Vanderbilt.  Washington.  St. Louis.   etc. etc. etc.
For a guy who wanted out in the worst way, there were no shortage of places that he didn't chase. 

I don't think wanting to go to Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA or even Indiana is a sign of "wanting out of here in the worst way" as much as wanting to go after one of the elite jobs in all of college basketball.

I'd love to hear a response to this 4ever. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's what I'm saying, Bro, except Strong never "ran" the pinhead out of town. He has wanted out of here in the worst way from the moment the final buzzer went off in New Orleans after having his butt handed to him by the Jayhawks. Its just some folks believed his b.s.

Some folks also believed in 26 of 27 players graduating, no NCAA violations, 3 NCAAs in the last 3 years....A-hole or not....those are good things and things that hadn't been done here in decades.   It has nothing to do with believing his B.S., it's about RESULTS.  The RESULTS were very good and let's hope like hell they are repeated, but I have my concerns about that.

[HarveysWallbangers]

But what if from the very first momets of the search you determined your criteria was "no mid-major coaches".  

That would not be an unreasonble constraint, given that twice MU has failed by hiring such coaches.  

In that case, interviewing Les, Lowery, Ford, Brownell would be a waste of time, becuase you decided first that none of them would be considerd.  

I know you've made the point that they should have been interviwed--but what would that have accmplished?  Obviously, mid-major coahes can interview quite well (Bob Duket did).  Obviously they can come in with an impressive list of achievements at lower levels (Dukeit's teams were often #1 or 2 in both offense and defense).  Obviously they can put up impressive credentials in recriting (Jersey City in the 1980's was not a garden spot).  On paper, Bob Duket was as impressive as Brad Brownell is today.  What crystal ball do you believe exists that can tell you whether or not Brownell is the next Dukiet?

So the question is whether any amount of intereviewing and research would convince you that Brownell was not just another Bob Dukiet, who would be in over his head?  My guess is no, which is why a sharp line was drawn on interviewing any of them.  MU has had two successful coaches who were assistants at big-time programs, and two failed coaches who were successful head coaches at mid-majors.  And you seem surprised that Brownell, Lowrey, Les, etc. didn't get consideration!  

Once "we're not going to hire a mid-major coach"  becomes a criteria, the ranks become pretty slim--one of the handful of successful major program coaches who we might perceive to be underemployed (Bennett, Miller, Few, Calipari).  Or a major assistant.  

What I've read suggests that the job was floated in front of Bennett and Miller with no interest, and Few took himself out of contention early on.  That mens looking next on your list, which was a major assistant.  Ours.  Who despite all the talk about how we didn't look that long has been in the department for nine months, and has interfaced with fans, boosters, players, recruits, AD office staff, etc.

So Marquette84, you're saying Marquette eliminated a HUGE pool of candidates because of a bad hire made more than 20 years ago?

That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, particularly when you compare the quality of mid-major conferences today and when we hired Dukiet.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

But what if from the very first momets of the search you determined your criteria was "no mid-major coaches".  

That would not be an unreasonble constraint, given that twice MU has failed by hiring such coaches.  

In that case, interviewing Les, Lowery, Ford, Brownell would be a waste of time, becuase you decided first that none of them would be considerd.  

I know you've made the point that they should have been interviwed--but what would that have accmplished?  Obviously, mid-major coahes can interview quite well (Bob Duket did).  Obviously they can come in with an impressive list of achievements at lower levels (Dukeit's teams were often #1 or 2 in both offense and defense).  Obviously they can put up impressive credentials in recriting (Jersey City in the 1980's was not a garden spot).  On paper, Bob Duket was as impressive as Brad Brownell is today.  What crystal ball do you believe exists that can tell you whether or not Brownell is the next Dukiet?

So the question is whether any amount of intereviewing and research would convince you that Brownell was not just another Bob Dukiet, who would be in over his head?  My guess is no, which is why a sharp line was drawn on interviewing any of them.  MU has had two successful coaches who were assistants at big-time programs, and two failed coaches who were successful head coaches at mid-majors.  And you seem surprised that Brownell, Lowrey, Les, etc. didn't get consideration!  

Once "we're not going to hire a mid-major coach"  becomes a criteria, the ranks become pretty slim--one of the handful of successful major program coaches who we might perceive to be underemployed (Bennett, Miller, Few, Calipari).  Or a major assistant.  

What I've read suggests that the job was floated in front of Bennett and Miller with no interest, and Few took himself out of contention early on.  That mens looking next on your list, which was a major assistant.  Ours.  Who despite all the talk about how we didn't look that long has been in the department for nine months, and has interfaced with fans, boosters, players, recruits, AD office staff, etc.

It would be sad, in my opinion, if they said no mid-major coaches.  Of course we know they didn't say that because they reached to the Davidson head coach and he said no, so it's a moot point.  They did consider some mid-majors, doesn't look like very many.

Besides, wasn't Buzz a mid-major head coach just last year?

[HarveysWallbangers]

What bs?  I don't think I ever heard him say that he would be the coach at MU until the day he retired. 

Seriously, what do you expect?  Do you really expect coaches to have a public list of jobs they think are better than the one they currently have.  I can just see what you want:  "I'm the coach at MU for now, but I'm not so much in love with the place that I wouldn't leave for Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, or other similar program."  Yeah, THAT would be good for recruiting.

Obviously he didn't want out badly enough to take $2 mil/year from Arkansas, which WAS offered.   Hmm.  If Crean were so completely disgusted with MU and couldn't wait to get out, wouldn't he have taken that offer? 

In fact, if Crean really wanted out of MU in the worst way, there were no shortage of lateral or slightly downgraded jobs he could have taken at any time.  He could have gone after Tennessee.  Texas A&M.  Nebraska.  West Virginai.   Kansas State.  Xavier.  Michigan.  Iowa.  Missouri.  Baylor.  Georgia Tech.  Miami.  Rutgers.  Stanford.  Arizona State.  St. Johns.  Arkansas.  Vanderbilt.  Washington.  St. Louis.   etc. etc. etc.
For a guy who wanted out in the worst way, there were no shortage of places that he didn't chase. 

I don't think wanting to go to Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA or even Indiana is a sign of "wanting out of here in the worst way" as much as wanting to go after one of the elite jobs in all of college basketball.

You forgot to mention Illinois, Virginia and Ohio State -- all schools who rejected Crean's overtures.

[4everwarriors]

I'd love to hear a response to this 4ever. 

The bull.... I'm talking about was his everyday rhetoric which was about as believable as   listening to a used car salesman.
As for other jobs, he chased and coveted those that would pay more than the small fortune MU ponied up.

[warthogdriver]

Crean was little more than an unsophisticated used car salesman. He chased after every "major" position that came along. Like they say, a blind squirrel will eventually find a nut just like a bull slinger will finally convince someone to drink the snake oil.