Another top non-conf home game for DePaul

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

They've got Wake Forest coming in tonight on the heels of Kansas with a game at UAB mixed in. Cal is coming in later this month. How are they able to get these great non-conference opponents when we keep hearing that football is required for "home and homes?"

I guess with UMBC, Oakland, Morgan St. and Savannah St. coming in, I shouldn't complain.

[dwaderoy2004]

i'm assuming you mean our lack of football revenue is the reason we can;t get quality home and homes.  but we were still able to land the wake forest and arizona series a couple years back.  regardless, it seems crean insists on having only 2 away games to fill in our OOC schedule.  one every other year is always taken by bucky.  why we always seem to fill the other one with a valpo or oakland is beyond me, but these colleges do seem to be homecoming type games for some of our players.  i've also heard that we've had some home and homes fall through (specifically illinois) because we couldn;t agree where the series would start i.e. crean wanted the first game in milwaukee, and vice versa.  i'm not defending our lack of quality OOC opponents (remember that duke and TT where not offcially on our schedule, and we almost didn;t play either thanks to idaho st.), both at home and on the road, and i most certainly would like to see us play a few more marquee matchups before conference, as i too have noticed that depaul has put together a much better OOC schedule than ours.

[Marquette84]

1.  Since when was UAB a "great" team?  I thought they were one of those "southern" CUSA schools that we didn't care about.

2.  Question:  When Bill Self promises recruits like Sherron Collins or Julian Wright a game in their home towns, what makes you think that Milwaukee would be an equally great location?

3.  Remind me again how that tough non-conference schedule prepared DePaul for Big East play. 

[NYWarrior]

Its just a different philosophy......Crean embraces the Boeheim approach to out of conference games.  Still, TC should get credit for pushing MU into these productive and challenging early season invitationals every year.

[MUDPT]

Valpo was signed before the 2003-2004 season, long before Dominic comitted, so I don't think that it was considered a homecoming for anybody.

[Sir Lawrence]

Playing tougher competition will always help a team get ready for conference play.  Plus, how about the ability to generate a little fan interest?  Sagarin Ratings today:  Morgan State, 290--Savannah State, 288--UMBC, 211--Oakland, 145.  Don't like Sagarin?  Pomeroy RPI today:
Morgan State, 286--Savannah State, 262--UMBC, 197--Oakland, 125. 

UAB?  Sagarin, 72, Pom. RPI 25.  I'll be at every game, but can't figure out why we can't bring in better competition.

Can't the Jesuit's get together and figure out how to have an all Jesuit Round Robin during Christmas week?  I realize Georgetown can't play MU, but think about the possibilities......

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Speaking of invitationals, DePaul also played in the Hawaii tournament this year.

UAB is not a top notch "name" program, but it's a UCLA compared to the crap we've brought into the BC this year (other than Wisco).

The answer to this is that Marquette knows it's season ticket holder base is fairly secure -- and has been for years and years -- and they don't think twice about taking advantage of that loyalty.

[spiral97]

riiiiiggght... if that's the only thing MU is concerned about then why bother going to the big east? 

[NYWarrior]

Playing tougher competition will always help a team get ready for conference play.

Gery Woelfel said the same thing last year......and indicated that MU's pre-season slate did 'nothing, repeat nothing' to help MU prepare for the Big East.  We all know what happened.

The Big East slate will take care of the RPI.  Playing Duke, Texas Tech and Wisconsin helps the out of conference enough. 

If anything, the lineup of snoozers is good for MU....TC is gonna have to rebuild the team's confidence and do a fair amount of tinkering to get it ready for the Big East gauntlet.  Smart scheduling for a young team IMHO

[Big Papi]

I think we have played tough competition in Duke, UW-Madison and Texas Tech all in the top 40 RPI.  Also we have or will play another 6 games with teams currently in top 150 RPI(pomeroy).  I believe our schedule has us ready for conference play.  You have to consider that while some of these schools may not have the best RPIs, just about every single one of the schools on our non-conference schedule was picked with a purpose by TC when it comes to conference play and tournament time.  I.e style of play that mimics other teams on our schedule.  Now having said that, yes I would have liked to have replaced one of the home bunnies with an additional big time school.  Maybe next year.  

What Depaul has done this year and last has probably hurt them more than helped them when it comes to tournament selection.  No matter how you slice it, winning does matter.  A 3-5 record with only 1 quality win over Kansas is a lot worse than a 8-2 record with 3 quality wins (Quality of win being against RPI top 100 teams).

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

You have to consider that while some of these schools may not have the best RPIs, just about every single one of the schools on our non-conference schedule was picked with a purpose by TC when it comes to conference play and tournament time.  I.e style of play that mimics other teams on our schedule.  

You can't be serious! These teams were "picked" by TC because they are warm bodies with a desire to add money to their athletic department budgets. And they are supposed to represent easy wins for MU. That's it.

[Big Papi]

If anything, the lineup of snoozers is good for MU....TC is gonna have to rebuild the team's confidence and do a fair amount of tinkering to get it ready for the Big East gauntlet.  Smart scheduling for a young team IMHO

Good point.  We have to remember that we are still a very young team that lacks a lot of experience.  I would expect a little bit of an upgrade in opponents next year with a big time program filling in for UW-Madison at home.  I believe the Maui Invitational will be just as tough as the CBE was this year.  

Sounds like some on here would rather sacrifice quantity of games over quality thus having fewer home games.  I don't know if that is a viable option financially.  I see the DePaul argument but you can't really make that arguement without knowing about the financial situation of both universities.  I.e. revenues and expenses on a year by year basis.  If someone could provide hardcore financials from both universities and prove that MU would be better off scheduling the way DePaul schedules than it would be dumb not to do it DePaul's way.  

[Big Papi]

You have to consider that while some of these schools may not have the best RPIs, just about every single one of the schools on our non-conference schedule was picked with a purpose by TC when it comes to conference play and tournament time.  I.e style of play that mimics other teams on our schedule.  

You can't be serious! These teams were "picked" by TC because they are warm bodies with a desire to add money to their athletic department budgets. And they are supposed to represent easy wins for MU. That's it.

There is definitely some truth about the money because it always is about the money but your wrong if you don't think TC spends as much time on scheduling specific opponents that will help his team throughout the year as he does on music selection, big playbooks, recruiting and scouting.

[spiral97]

music selection

???

[MarquetteFan94]

This is such a tired, circular debate that it's become ridiculous.  Seriously, what would make some of you happy?  Should we have:  Kentucky, UCLA, Arizona, North Carolina and Duke scheduled to pay us a visit in Milwaukee next year and go into the BE with a 4-7 record?

EVERY "top tier" college basketball program schedules guarantee games...every single one of them.  Look at the pre-conference home schedules below (they do not include invitationals, pre-season tourney's, etc.)...you may see some familiar names.

Does anyone remember when we'd have a home CONFERENCE schedule that included:  East Carolina, Southern Miss, TCU, and Tulane?!?!  It really wasn't too long ago. 

Nobody forces you to buy season tickets, if you don't like our pre-conference home schedule why don't you buy a smaller package or broker tickets only to the games with "worthy opponents?"

Pre-Conference Home Schedules:

UNC:  Sacred Heart, Winthrop, Gardner Webb, Ohio State, Kentucky, High Point, NC-Ashville, Florida Atlantic
Ranked Teams:  1

UCLA:  BYU, Long Beach State, UC Riverside, Cal St. Fullerton, Texas A&M, Oakland,  Sam Houston St, Michigan
Ranked Teams:  1

Kentucky:  Miami (OH), Miss Valley St, Charleston, Chattanooga, Santa Clara, UMass, E. Kentucky, Houston
Ranked Teams:  0

L'ville:  Nortwestern St, Sacramento St, Ohio, St. Joe's, Bellarmine, UMass, Savannah St, Miami (FL) San Francisco, NC-Ashville
Ranked Teams:  0

Arizona:  N. Arizona, New Mexico St, Samford, UNLV, Houston
Ranked Teams:  0

Pitt:  W. Michigan, Deleware St, Northeastern, UMass, Oakland, Florida St, Robert Morris, Duquense, Dayton, Florida A&M
Ranked Teams:  0

Kansas:  N. Arizona, Oral Roberts, Towson, Tennessee St, Ball St, Dartmouth, USC, Toledo, Winston-Salem, Boston College, Detroit, Rhode Island
Ranked Teams:  0

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Nice argument. Where did anybody suggest we bring in North Carolina, UCLA, Arizona and Duke? Is that what anybody is saying? The level of defensiveness about this is bizarre. Take a look at our non-conf. home schedule:

Cardinal Stritch!!
Hillsdale!!!
Idaho St.
Detroit
East Michigan
North Dakota St.
Delaware St.
Wisconsin
Maryland-Baltimore County
Oakland
Morgan St.
Savannah St.

Then sit there and compare it to North Carolina's non-conf home schedule -- which includes Kentucky and Ohio St. -- or Kansas, which includes USC, Boston College and Ball St. to ours. I include Ball St. in this argument because they would represent -- by far -- the second best team on our non-conf home schedule. How anybody can defend our schedule is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense to claim it's legitimate -- or claim it is done to "prepare" us for the Big East.

Suggesting we would have a 4-7 record if we scheduled one or two even halfway decent games is absurd. I suppose actually defeating a team from the Atlantic 10 or Loyola or Butler at the Bradley Center would be out of the question. DePaul will likely have a worse non-conference record than us this year. I'm willing to bet that if we tie them in the Big East, they'll go to the tournament ahead of us because our home schedule is a joke.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Do you think Bucks season-ticket holders would like it if they played nobody but the Bobcats, Toronto, and Atlanta for the first 2 1/2 months of the season?

[bma725]

Can't the Jesuit's get together and figure out how to have an all Jesuit Round Robin during Christmas week?  I realize Georgetown can't play MU, but think about the possibilities......

Its not just can't play, its can't be in the same tournament as someone from your conference.  Given that nearly every Jesuits school in D-1 is in the same conference as another Jesuit school it becomes a logistical nightmare that doesn't make sense for most of the schools.  Gonzaga could never be in it when USF and Santa Clara are in.  Detroit and Loyola can't be together, SLU and St. Joe's and Xavier can't....the list goes on.  Really that kind of tournament would only be an every year benefit for Creighton and maybe a few other schools because they are by themselves. 

No school with a qualified AD is going to commit to a tournament on such a grand scale when there would be so many different variables in play, and they wouldn't see the benefits most years.  No Jesuit University president is going to push the idea too hard for fear of upsetting the "lower level" Jesuit schools when the athletic department wants to rig who gets to play that year.  Its a PR nightmare waiting to happen, and those guys are too smart to put themselves in that position.....so for the most part they just avoid the idea as a whole.

[dwaderoy2004]

i completely understand the reasoning as to why teams schedule easy teams in OOC.  I also understand why marquette specifically must have a lot of home buy games for revenue purposes.  all i am saying is that as a fan, it's fun to see bigger name opponents.  and as evidenced by the ncaa tourney selection committees the last few years, OOC SOS is an extremely important factor in selection and seeding.  Again, it is important to remember that there was no guarantee that we were going to play Duke and Texas Tech.  Fortunately that all worked out, but how bad would our schedule look if idaho state had pulled out the victory, or if duke or TT had gotten upset before KC?  i agree that there is not much point in arguing because this is the way it's going to be.  just not a lot of fun in non-conference play...

[ForstK]

Can MU continue to plead poverty with the lucrative ESPN-BEAST TV contract about to start?

[Big Papi]

I would think if it made financial sense, if it helped the team improve, if it meant a bigger, happier fan base and it didn't hurt our chances of making tourny by going 15-15, TC would schedule Duke, Arizona, Kansas, North Carolina, UW-Madison, Illinois, Michigan St., Florida, Ohio St., Indiana, Gonzaga and Texas every year.

Now I know I am being an a** by making that comment but you can't compare every one elses's schedule with our schedule.  There are different factors and circumstances for every school that goes into creating a schedule.  I would love to see another 1 or 2 high profile name teams play at home but I am not going to blast the schedule we have this year.  By all indications it looks like we will play 6 to 7 schools with an RPI of 200 plus out of 31 games.  Not great but not horrible, at least by my standards.  I will at least wait until the end of the season before making my final judgements on our schedule but I will gladly take some of the stinkers for games against Duke, Texas Tech, UW-Madison, Syracuse, Pitt twice, Louisville twice, ND, UConn, Villanova, Georgetown, etc., etc.    

[MarquetteFan94]

Nice argument. Where did anybody suggest we bring in North Carolina, UCLA, Arizona and Duke? Is that what anybody is saying? The level of defensiveness about this is bizarre. Take a look at our non-conf. home schedule:

Cardinal Stritch!!
Hillsdale!!!
Idaho St.
Detroit
East Michigan
North Dakota St.
Delaware St.
Wisconsin
Maryland-Baltimore County
Oakland
Morgan St.
Savannah St.

Then sit there and compare it to North Carolina's non-conf home schedule -- which includes Kentucky and Ohio St. -- or Kansas, which includes USC, Boston College and Ball St. to ours. I include Ball St. in this argument because they would represent -- by far -- the second best team on our non-conf home schedule. How anybody can defend our schedule is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense to claim it's legitimate -- or claim it is done to "prepare" us for the Big East.

Suggesting we would have a 4-7 record if we scheduled one or two even halfway decent games is absurd. I suppose actually defeating a team from the Atlantic 10 or Loyola or Butler at the Bradley Center would be out of the question. DePaul will likely have a worse non-conference record than us this year. I'm willing to bet that if we tie them in the Big East, they'll go to the tournament ahead of us because our home schedule is a joke.

Comparing MU's home scheduling to the Bucks, now that's absurd....some slight differences there....I don't think Terry Stotts has to get on the horn with Phil Jackson to get the Lakers to come to town or worry about final exam schedules.  Clearly, I wasn't suggesting that we schedule UNC, UCLA, Arizona and Duke....just making a point that you can't make everyone happy...which is pretty obvious here.  UNC now has an established home and home with Kentucky and Ohio State was a product of the ACC/Big Ten Challenge...not too tough for Roy Williams to get those accomplished.

Regarding your KU comparison....so, Ball St. would make you feel better than E. Michigan or Detroit or Morgan St....based on their RPI?  I'd guess that someone who makes the effort to get to a game against Ball St. would also go to the Morgan St. game...or any other game for that matter.  I'd rather have an intrastate rival,  top 10 team on our schedule (Wisconsin) than BC or USC....what about all of the other names you chose to ignore:  Northern AZ, Towson, Winston-Salem, etc...would you like to see any of those teams?

Basketball is our football....primary money maker....the more games the more money we make...I'm sure we all understand that concept.  We're assuming that we can just bring in whomever we'd like to come play in Milwaukee....not going to happen.  Would I rather see bigger names?  Sure, who wouldn't.  Do I understand MU's scheduling "philosophy" and the business aspect....yes.  I also understand the value of an MU season ticket is backloaded into the conference schedule and can live with that.   We're in the Big East, our home schedule is strong every season.  What in God's name were you saying when we had East Carolina, Tulane and Southern Miss at home?!

You're right there is no need to "defend" our home OOC schedule....it didn't seem to adversely impact our preparation for BE play last year.  I'm not sure we'd be better off in March if we played USC or Morgan State in December.

My suggestion of a 4-7 record going in to conference play was an extension of the same point on bringing in elite program opponents....not Butler or Loyola....you twisted the logic around and wouldn't classify those programs as elite.

So, if we tie DePaul in the BE they'd get into the NCAA because they played tougher home opponents?  What if we beat more ranked opponents or, here's an idea, beat DePaul?  There are plenty of factors that determine who gets invited to the dance, not just who you play at home before conference play begins.  Texas Tech, Duke and Wisconsin are worthy OOC opponents in my book.

[MilTown]

Anyway you look at it, outside of Wisconsin, this year's non-conference schedule is pretty bad. I have no idea about the scheduling process and the negotiations involved, but I think its safe to say that that everyone involved including TC would love to get some better opponents on our non-conference schedule. We seem to have a few more "who the hell is that" teams this year (UMBC) than in prior years. This year we were lucky in drawing TT and Duke in addition to Wisconsin. Imagine if we were bounced first round in the CBE. It won't take much to improve our schedule. Really just one more annual home and home series with another major conference such as the Big 10, or Pac 10 could do it. That would give us Wisconsin, a major conference team, and the invitational. Not too shabby. 

[DoubleMU0609]

I think that most people would be satisfied with our OOC schedule this year if we had one more marquee game (a la Wake Forrest or Arizona like years past).  Rumor has is that we were in talks with U of I for that marquee game last year and this year (home and away) that fell through.  I would guess that our complaints will be satisfied next season, but we can't know that until next seasons schedule comes out.

[MarquetteFan94]

Agreed....one more quality home and home would be great....and realistic.  We had that with Wake Forest then Arizona...obviously moving to the BE we "lost" the OOC home and home with Notre Dame also....sounds like we tried with Illinois recently and I thought I remember reading something about Gonzaga?  Minnesota, Michigan or Iowa would be interesting ideas....although with the ACC/Big Ten Challenge it may be tough to accomplish.  I have a feeling we may see something with Kansas State in the near future.