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Author Topic: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold  (Read 6271 times)

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« on: April 04, 2008, 08:57:53 AM »
Crean!

My memory is a little fuzzy...what poster has been suggesting this since the day of the announcement?

Sure, it's water under the bridge now, but it's an indication of the ridiculous amount of power Crean had in all things Marquette.

Of course, it's also an indication of how embarrassingly inept our Board of Trustees is.



tower912

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2008, 09:00:16 AM »
I am fairly certain they needed the sarcasm font for that statement.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2008, 09:45:33 AM »
PRN...we're still waiting for your list my friend.   If it's Buzz, you must be thrilled  ::)

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2008, 09:50:04 AM »
I don't have a list. If I did, Buzz would not be on it.

Hiring him would represent complete ineptitude and a lack of any institutional self respect, in my opinion. Actually, the fact that he's being discussed is almost making me see things your way.

Henry Sugar

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2008, 09:51:39 AM »
I don't have a list. If I did, Buzz would not be on it.

Hiring him would represent complete ineptitude and a lack of any institutional self respect, in my opinion. Actually, the fact that he's being discussed is almost making me see things your way.

It would almost be worth it to have Marquette hire Buzz just so we could have continuity with PRN hating on the current Marquette coach.

almost...

and for the record, I also think Marquette can do better than Buzz
A warrior is an empowered and compassionate protector of others.

MUCam

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2008, 09:52:01 AM »
Honestly speaking, the suggestion for the "Gold" from whoever it came from made sense to me from a marketing standpoint. Unfortunately, it was suggested at a time when people were actually given true hope that "Warriors" might be back and therefore was met with absolute hatred and revulsion. I can just about assure you that any name we had changed to, short of "Warriors," would have been ridiculed extensively.

As you yourself have stated PRN, "Gold" would by now be much more preferable to the generic name that is the "Golden Eagles." It would have taken time to stick, but at least it would have been unique. Golden Eagles will never "stick" because it is so very generic.

If Crean suggested "Gold," I think it was because (1) he underestimated the support for Warriors and (2) he thought the dislike of the name "Golden Eagles" outweighed the support for the name "Warriors."

79Warrior

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2008, 09:55:43 AM »
PRN...we're still waiting for your list my friend.   If it's Buzz, you must be thrilled  ::)

It is much easier not to have a list. that way he can blast any hire.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2008, 09:56:47 AM »
I don't have a list. If I did, Buzz would not be on it.

Hiring him would represent complete ineptitude and a lack of any institutional self respect, in my opinion. Actually, the fact that he's being discussed is almost making me see things your way.

It would scream desperation hire IMO.  Two days into a search and this is it?  He might be great, but I'd rather have him be the fall back on day 10.

But then again, this was exactly my point the last week, MU is a good job with money and all the rest, but it's also going to appeal to a small number of coaches because in the current setup, it's a coach killer in the eyes of some coaches out there....especially the ones that are comfy.  That's MU's dilemma.  MU is great for top assistants or coaches from lower level programs that are hungry, and that's a good thing.  But MU is not great to hire away a big name because most big names have it equally good where they are at and there is no reason for them to come to Milwaukee to go through the gauntlet of the Big East and having to match wits with some of college coaching's very best.

SERocks

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2008, 09:57:08 AM »
Not that this is a nickname thread (we know there are enough of those already), but I think we should just drop the friggin nick.  No one likes what we have now and the administration won't allow us to go back to what everyone wants.

We Are Marquette.

It says enough.

SERocks

Tribby

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2008, 10:03:30 AM »
Honestly speaking, the suggestion for the "Gold" from whoever it came from made sense to me from a marketing standpoint. Unfortunately, it was suggested at a time when people were actually given true hope that "Warriors" might be back and therefore was met with absolute hatred and revulsion. I can just about assure you that any name we had changed to, short of "Warriors," would have been ridiculed extensively.
Disagree wholeheartedly. Myself and most of my social circle were fierce Golden Eagles supporters and yet we were all as repulsed by Gold as any Warriors folks were.

MU Chi_IL

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2008, 10:03:44 AM »
The 2008 Marquette Coaching search from the people who brought you the...

The GOLD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcrEl_r8xEE


PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2008, 10:07:41 AM »
PRN...we're still waiting for your list my friend.   If it's Buzz, you must be thrilled  ::)

It is much easier not to have a list. that way he can blast any hire.

I won't blast any hire. In fact, I thought Crean was a great hire. At the time there was no way of knowing what a tool he is.

There are many names I've heard that I'd be happy with. Just not an assistant coach from Texas who's been here for less than a year and who ran out on his last head coaching job.

Williams would be the least qualifed coach Marquette has ever hired.

MUCam

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2008, 10:13:04 AM »
Tribby Crean -

You are a liar. You loved Gold and you hate Golden Eagles.

MuCam

(PS. Because most of my jokes fall flat on their face, let me tell you that I am joking)

In all seriousness, looking back, can you see a situation where "Gold" would grow on you? I thought it was a ridiculous nickname when suggested. Looking back, I much prefer it to "Golden Eagles." I understand there is a group that appreciates the Golden Eagles nickname, yourself apparently included, but do you at least admit that the nickname is generic and somewhat uninspiring?

Tribby

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2008, 11:23:40 AM »
Tribby Crean -

You are a liar. You loved Gold and you hate Golden Eagles.

MuCam

(PS. Because most of my jokes fall flat on their face, let me tell you that I am joking)

In all seriousness, looking back, can you see a situation where "Gold" would grow on you? I thought it was a ridiculous nickname when suggested. Looking back, I much prefer it to "Golden Eagles." I understand there is a group that appreciates the Golden Eagles nickname, yourself apparently included, but do you at least admit that the nickname is generic and somewhat uninspiring?
I hate getting dragged into these discussions, but nevertheless ...

If I could have chosen any nickname in the world, would I have chosen GE? No. It's indeed generic and somewhat uninspiring. But I feel the exact same way about Warriors, honestly. I was a Warrior in high school, and it didn't excite me any more than GE did.

I went to and graduated from Marquette as a Golden Eagle, so I identify with that. I totally understand how older alums identify with Warriors. No matter what, some group of alums was going to feel shafted. I'm happy it wasn't me, but I'm sorry it had to be you.

Ahoya06

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2008, 11:29:51 AM »
As Tribby's roommate at the time of the decision, I have to back him up on this one. We had many, many, MANY debates during the nickname debacle, with him being pro-Golden Eagles, and me being co-chair of Students For Warriors. However, when the Gold mistake came out, he was right there with us coming out against it.

Ahoya06

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2008, 11:32:14 AM »
Whoops, missed the part about MUCam joking. Next time, I need to learn to read...  ;)

SERocks

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2008, 11:32:18 AM »
You post exhibits exactly why I voted for Golden Eagles when it came right down to it.  If Warriors was off the table, why on earth would the University wish to disenfranchise (not right word, but having trouble finding the right one) another set of alumni who now after 10+ years identified with Golden Eagles.

-SERocks

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 01:24:13 PM »
I don't care how much of a tool he is, does he win and does he win without cheating.  That's all I care about.


I've worked with Matt Doherty, Roy Williams, Mike Deane, Bob Knight, Crean as well as assistants like Rice, Horn, Stephens, Buckley, etc


Guys, 90% of them are tools in some fashion or another.  Some are MAJOR tools.  Yes, and some are not....Buckley and Stephens were very good people to work with.  Horn had a little "edge" to him that some didn't like, but he was generally pretty decent.   Hell, out here with Howland...I can tell you he rubs a LOT of people the wrong way, but he wins.

Being a tool has very little concern for me when it comes to hiring coaches because most of the successful ones are complete tools.

avid1010

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2008, 04:31:28 PM »
I've worked with Matt Doherty, Roy Williams, Mike Deane, Bob Knight, Crean as well as assistants like Rice, Horn, Stephens, Buckley, etc



Roy Williams could be taken off the tool list IMHO.  Ever notice how Crean has TERRIBLE eye contact when have a personal conversation??  Makes me wonder now.  If we're talking tools...toss in Bo Ryan.  I was a complete supporter of Dick Bennett at UW, but Bo is something else!  I'll never forget him saying that UW-Plattville could beat a large % of D-I teams!!!

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2008, 04:35:44 PM »
I've worked with Matt Doherty, Roy Williams, Mike Deane, Bob Knight, Crean as well as assistants like Rice, Horn, Stephens, Buckley, etc



Roy Williams could be taken off the tool list IMHO.  Ever notice how Crean has TERRIBLE eye contact when have a personal conversation??  Makes me wonder now.  If we're talking tools...toss in Bo Ryan.  I was a complete supporter of Dick Bennett at UW, but Bo is something else!  I'll never forget him saying that UW-Plattville could beat a large % of D-I teams!!!

I would not be able to take Roy off the tool list....these guys all have egos and all have insecurities that would blow your minds.  I think a lot of it is the job, they're always looking over their shoulder, always thinking they are going to get fired, etc so they build up these protective character traits.  It's odd, but it's there in many of them.

StillAWarrior

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2008, 04:53:15 PM »
...these guys all have egos and all have insecurities that would blow your minds.  I think a lot of it is the job, they're always looking over their shoulder, always thinking they are going to get fired, etc so they build up these protective character traits.  It's odd, but it's there in many of them.

I'm finally getting around to my first comment on this whole situation.  This comment touches upon something that I've been thinking about Crean's inglorious exit.  One of my favorite quotes:  "never attribute to malice, that which can just as easily be explained by incompetence."

I think that's at the heart of how Crean screwed up his exit.  At the risk of being branded a Crean defender (something I really don't want to be), I simply reject the notion that Crean didn't care about his players, his recruits or the Marquette fans.  I think he did (and does) care about all of them.  I just think he is, at heart, an insecure person who cares too much about what people think of him.  I think that's why he always seems too slick, and too fake.  He's trying to be everything to everybody.  So, when he decided to take the Indiana job, he didn't have the balls to face the people who were going to be hurt by his decision.  He was a coward, and he took the easy way out.  Honestly, I suspect he regrets it, but he can't change it now (even if he did manage to strap on a set).

So, I don't think the terrible way that Crean handled his exit was caused by malice.  He was simply incompetent in how he carried it out -- incompetence rooted in his own insecurities and cowardace.

Like so many others on this board, I can't fault Crean for taking the Indiana job...it's Indiana.  They may be down right now, but it's a premier job.

But, as DJ said, "Marquette is Marquette."  I've gained an awful lot of respect for that kid over the last 72 hours, and I really hope we get another year with him.

I just really hope that we make a good hire.  I'm trying really hard not to get too caught up in name recognition.  I want the best guy possible, and I'm more than willing to accept that it might be someone I've never heard of.  I haven't always loved Crean, but I'm one of the people who didn't want to lose him because I'm scared that we might not get someone as good.  I really, really don't want to be DePaul.  But, I've got to admit that I'm looking forward to a coach who can solve a 2-3 zone.  That should be a job requirement.

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Bob "Big Daddy" Wild

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2008, 05:14:48 PM »
But then again, this was exactly my point the last week, MU is a good job with money and all the rest, but it's also going to appeal to a small number of coaches because in the current setup, it's a coach killer in the eyes of some coaches out there....especially the ones that are comfy.  That's MU's dilemma.  MU is great for top assistants or coaches from lower level programs that are hungry, and that's a good thing.  But MU is not great to hire away a big name because most big names have it equally good where they are at and there is no reason for them to come to Milwaukee to go through the gauntlet of the Big East and having to match wits with some of college coaching's very best.

Chicos, the above paragraph read my mind.

StillAWarrior, great post too.
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Posters on other board now admitting who was behind Gold
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2008, 05:20:59 PM »
...these guys all have egos and all have insecurities that would blow your minds.  I think a lot of it is the job, they're always looking over their shoulder, always thinking they are going to get fired, etc so they build up these protective character traits.  It's odd, but it's there in many of them.

I'm finally getting around to my first comment on this whole situation.  This comment touches upon something that I've been thinking about Crean's inglorious exit.  One of my favorite quotes:  "never attribute to malice, that which can just as easily be explained by incompetence."

I think that's at the heart of how Crean screwed up his exit.  At the risk of being branded a Crean defender (something I really don't want to be), I simply reject the notion that Crean didn't care about his players, his recruits or the Marquette fans.  I think he did (and does) care about all of them.  I just think he is, at heart, an insecure person who cares too much about what people think of him.  I think that's why he always seems too slick, and too fake.  He's trying to be everything to everybody.  So, when he decided to take the Indiana job, he didn't have the balls to face the people who were going to be hurt by his decision.  He was a coward, and he took the easy way out.  Honestly, I suspect he regrets it, but he can't change it now (even if he did manage to strap on a set).

So, I don't think the terrible way that Crean handled his exit was caused by malice.  He was simply incompetent in how he carried it out -- incompetence rooted in his own insecurities and cowardace.

Like so many others on this board, I can't fault Crean for taking the Indiana job...it's Indiana.  They may be down right now, but it's a premier job.

But, as DJ said, "Marquette is Marquette."  I've gained an awful lot of respect for that kid over the last 72 hours, and I really hope we get another year with him.

I just really hope that we make a good hire.  I'm trying really hard not to get too caught up in name recognition.  I want the best guy possible, and I'm more than willing to accept that it might be someone I've never heard of.  I haven't always loved Crean, but I'm one of the people who didn't want to lose him because I'm scared that we might not get someone as good.  I really, really don't want to be DePaul.  But, I've got to admit that I'm looking forward to a coach who can solve a 2-3 zone.  That should be a job requirement.



MAJOR +1

In fact you killed what I was writing on the blog.   ;)   That's exactly what I think happened.   Crean, in my opinion, didn't have the courage to face the kids or the staff for fear of being talked out of the job.  He didn't want to go back on what he believed for 9 years (or what he was telling people to believe) and then go against it.  By just going cold turkey and signing the deal, it game him protection to say "it happened so fast" there was nothing I could do.  Yeah, it did happen fast but it could have been handled much better.  It wasn't handled better because Crean wasn't courageous enough to handle it the right way.