Disappointing Season

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Wow, and here I thought this was a family friendly site?

Since you're here, how are UW-M's prospects in the Horizon League Tourney?

[NavinRJohnson]

It is disappointing in the fact that there were too many games where they just didn't seem to bring it mentally. I could understand if this happened against the Florida Gulf Coasts of the world, but we're talking about games against Syracuse, UConn, ND...There is no shame in losing those games necessarily, but there were too many instances of a lack of focus, effort, whatever you want to call it -- that is disappointing.

As much as they seemed to find their mojo at the end of the ND game, it sure seems like the lost it again yesterday.

[Boognish_MU]

Who cares if UW is overrated or not.  The only thing that should matter to MU fans is that MU is overrated and folds like a tent every time they play a top 25 team.

I agree. UW is not what I am concerned about here.  What I am concerned about is how every good team we play just seems to want it more than MU.

[4everwarriors]

Without a doubt UW has improved throughout the season. That's why they'll be putting up a banner as Big 10 champs again. BTW, I think St. Johns, South Florida, and Rutgers compare favorably with Michigan, PSU, and NU.

Here's a serious question for you, Chicos. Will you ever admit that Crean, for whatever the reasons, is lacking as the Warriors' head coach? Is he just a slow learner, stupid, not fully capable, or simply a BS'er?

[Pardner]

Without a doubt UW has improved throughout the season. That's why they'll be putting up a banner as Big 10 champs again. BTW, I think St. Johns, South Florida, and Rutgers compare favorably with Michigan, PSU, and NU.

Here's a serious question for you, Chicos. Will you ever admit that Crean, for whatever the reasons, is lacking as the Warriors' head coach? Is he just a slow learner, stupid, not fully capable, or simply a BS'er?

Michigan, PSU and NU are almost 30% of the Big 11.  NU is just horrible, playing at DII level.  PSU took Indiana at home today.  And MSU just choked up another one to OSU (in a rebuilding year).  Iowa is a power house.  Illinois is weak at best.  The Big 10 is so overrated it is ridiculous.

SJU is indeed a mess.  USF has an NBA first rounder and has played a lot of ranked teams tight.  Rutgers is way too young.   The rest of the BE (less SH right now after injuries) would take it to the B11 overall on a night in, night out basis.  Wisconsin and Purdue (losing to Mich as I type) are the only two teams who deserve to be ranked right now vs. 4-6 in the BE. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Without a doubt UW has improved throughout the season. That's why they'll be putting up a banner as Big 10 champs again. BTW, I think St. Johns, South Florida, and Rutgers compare favorably with Michigan, PSU, and NU.

Here's a serious question for you, Chicos. Will you ever admit that Crean, for whatever the reasons, is lacking as the Warriors' head coach? Is he just a slow learner, stupid, not fully capable, or simply a BS'er?

I've said it many times.  I don't like how he attacks a zone, I wish he'd land some more bigs.  That being said, I don't think he's a slow learner, stupid, etc....if so...I find it amazing that it took us 27 years to get to 3 straight NCAA bids with all of the "smart" coaches we've had in that time period. 

Goes both ways...doesn't it?

Now, your belief that UW has improved because they're hoisting a banner in a bad conference?  I don't know...we'll see.  They will be a 2 or a 3 seed and I have no problem thinking they will again come up short of that seeding potential.  In other words, a 2 seed should make the Elite 8 and a 3 seed should make the Sweet 16.  We'll see.  They may be great, but it's damn hard to tell considering who they play each week...which is a bunch of mid level crummy teams.

[Marquette84]

anyone notice a trend here? Third in BE, then fifth in BE, now sixth in BE. This is progress?

Since this is an MU board, it's probably worth mentioned that MU was in a three way tie for 4th in 06, a two way tie for 5th in 07, and another two-way tie for 5th in 08.

Without USF's upset over Georgetown (which took place after our final game), we're in a two-way tie for 5th in 06 as well.

So if the trend you're alluding to is a model of consistency, you're onto something. 

If its the one you're creating by misstating the 06 and 08 records, well . . .

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who cares if UW is overrated or not.  The only thing that should matter to MU fans is that MU is overrated and folds like a tent every time they play a top 25 team.

I agree. UW is not what I am concerned about here.  What I am concerned about is how every good team we play just seems to want it more than MU.

The biggest cliche in sports and one I never understood.  So if you want it more, does it make you shoot better?  I can see where "wanting it more" might make getting more rebounds or a better effort....did DJ "not want it more" last Saturday and that's why he was trying to foul him on purpose...or did he want it so bad that he tried to strip a guy and it was called a foul?

You decide.


Meanwhile, the idea that someone "wants it more" is one of the worst sports cliches out there.

[mu_hilltopper]

And those ties are broken to differentiate between one 5th place team and another based on rules that try to draw logical lines to determine who is the better tied-team. 
After tie breakers, we're the 6th best team this season.

[spiral97]

so... if it came down to it... a coin flip could determine which of two teams is better... hrmm.

[monkeyman34]

I will agree this has been a disapointing season. the "big 3" all juniors now, were supposed to really step it up now that they are "veterans."  that never happened.  this team has no discipline, plays very stupid (no basketball IQ what-so-ever), and looks like they are running around with their heads cut off on offense.  the team also plays undersized basically the entire game (lazar should be a SF, once in a while a PF - not a PF all the time).  Crean does a good job recruiting, I will give him that, but we are paying him like he's a top coach in the nation - and that, he is not      no discipline/no basketball IQ/poor lineups -- that all falls on the coach,  I have never liked DJ as long as he's been here, but I have respected that he's a freakishly good athlete, but the kid just plays so gosh-darn stupid all of the time, he has no idea how to run an offense- yes, he can distribute the ball well at times but that does not mean he can run an offense well,  just watching him throughout points in a game, he just doesn't seem to get it --- sorry this is very sloppily written but I just got done with a 2 1/2 hour exam, followed by another at 8am tomorrow and another on Wednesday

[CTWarrior]

I will agree this has been a disapointing season. the "big 3" all juniors now, were supposed to really step it up now that they are "veterans."  that never happened. 

I disagree.  It is a theory of Bill James that the fans of struggling teams focus their frustrations on its best players.  Those three guys carry this team on thier backs.  They go into every game against a good team knowing that our bigs will be outscored by 15 and outrebounded.  They know they are going to have to make those points up.  We are 22-8 and 11-7 and most of that is because of the work of those three guys and Hayward, (and Hayward has not been all that good when we play the big boys).  It is true that there is not a great shooter among them, but they do so much else well they more than make up for it.  If two of them have an off night we have no chance and it often gets ugly and we lose miserably, so I can see the frustration, but the problems we have, in the end, always come back to not having enough at the 4 and 5 positions.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How can anyone say this is a disappointing season when the season isn't over?  I guess I just don't get it.

Let's see what happens over the next 4 weeks.  We won 11 games in one of the best conferences in the country, we beat the #6 team in the country on their home court, we have been ranked all year sans one week, we played the 2nd toughest Big East schedule in the league and a top 35 schedule in the country.

This year's Big East is tougher than last year's....therefore it's hard for me to understand how we did worse.  If we finished tied for 5th this year and the Big East was the same, I'd agree.  But as of today, some experts have 9 Big East teams going to the dance...last year we got 6.  The league is deeper and we still won 11 games.

I think comparing this year to last year is flawed if one doesn't factor in the difference in the league from last year to this year.

[MarquetteVol]

Meanwhile, the idea that someone "wants it more" is one of the worst sports cliches out there.

It's about as cliched as how a winning team has great chemistry, but losing teams have bad chemistry.

[monkeyman34]

CTWarrior - you said you disagree with what i said about the "big 3" ... i'm not putting all the blame on them,  but you didn't pick at what i said about not being disciplined, no basketball IQ and poor lineups ....  I would say those 3 are the main things that have been the downfall of this team along with no significant improvements by the guards (i would say neither of the 3 being a good shooter is a pretty big deal seeing we are such a guard orriented team)

[CTWarrior]

monkeyman - I agree that they cannot hit a three, but DJ had a nice mid-range jumper.  I do not think their decision making is that bad, though the DJ foul at the end of regulation against G'twon was a horrific decision. 

You have to realize that the team we have assembled is very limited in what it can do offensively, particularly against a big aggressive zone.  The guards can't create space for themselves by dumping the ball into the low post and springing someone free when the post gets double teamed, because we don't have a post player who commands a double team.  Part of the reason our guards aren't great perimeter shooters is because we can't get that spacing and hurried shots result, especially against the bigger, quicker teams that can close on a shooter in a hurry.  So they have to penetrate, throw the occasional risky pass, throw their bodies into the lane and throw up a tough shot hoping for the foul call, etc.  They move the ball around the perimeter looking for an opening to drive, but our opponents are wise to us and  that becomes more and more difficult.

So I guess my biggest point is that individually the "big 3" are all excellent players but they do not complement each other as well as we would like.  We'd be better off if one of them was like the Scheyer kid from Duke who would bury the three if you left him open.  But they're not, and they have to make due with their skill set, and I think they do a great job.

Finally, if you put DJ in Paulus' spot on Duke with all the offensive weapons he'd have at his disposal and I bet people are talking about him as an All-American candidate.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

How can anyone say this is a disappointing season when the season isn't over?  I guess I just don't get it.

I agree with Chicos on this one and I will reiterate my prediction:

We will destroy our first round NCAA opponent...no matter who it is...and win our second round game by between 6 and 10 points. We will then be routed in the Sweet 16.

And that will make it a less than disappointing season.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Without a doubt UW has improved throughout the season. That's why they'll be putting up a banner as Big 10 champs again. BTW, I think St. Johns, South Florida, and Rutgers compare favorably with Michigan, PSU, and NU.

Here's a serious question for you, Chicos. Will you ever admit that Crean, for whatever the reasons, is lacking as the Warriors' head coach? Is he just a slow learner, stupid, not fully capable, or simply a BS'er?

I'm not Chicos, but I'd like to respond as well.

Crean is already the 2nd best coach ever at MU. MU's program has come VERY far in 10 years. We could be less relevant that SJU or DePaul.

But, we aren't.

With that said, I wish MU was better... but I do understand that Crean is hopefully building a program for long term success... so I'm willing to have some patience.

[BrewCity83]

Without a doubt UW has improved throughout the season. That's why they'll be putting up a banner as Big 10 champs again. BTW, I think St. Johns, South Florida, and Rutgers compare favorably with Michigan, PSU, and NU.

Here's a serious question for you, Chicos. Will you ever admit that Crean, for whatever the reasons, is lacking as the Warriors' head coach? Is he just a slow learner, stupid, not fully capable, or simply a BS'er?

I'm not Chicos, but I'd like to respond as well.

Crean is already the 2nd best coach ever at MU. MU's program has come VERY far in 10 years. We could be less relevant that SJU or DePaul.

But, we aren't.

With that said, I wish MU was better... but I do understand that Crean is hopefully building a program for long term success... so I'm willing to have some patience.

Agree wholeheartedly.

[RawdogDX]

If we, when going into the big east tourny are considered 'a Lock' by every national expert then it is only a dissapointment if we were favored to win the conference.  We weren't favored to win by anyone (including people on this board).  It would have been nice to win one or two of those games we lost and been higher on the ladder by a rung or two.  But it wouldn't make too much of a difference in the long run.  We are a lock for the third time in as many years.  And I didn't see anything this season to make me think that will change in the next few years.  I can't see a reason to be dissapointed about this year.  If you are your standards are way to high for some small private school out of wisconsin.

[Boognish_MU]

Meanwhile, the idea that someone "wants it more" is one of the worst sports cliches out there.

Have you ever heard of hustle?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Meanwhile, the idea that someone "wants it more" is one of the worst sports cliches out there.

Have you ever heard of hustle?

Yes, it's mantra number one for me as a coach....albeit Little League.      Are you suggesting this team doesn't hustle? 

If so, I just don't agree.  Sure there are moments, like there are with any team.  But for a team as undersized as MU is, the ONLY way to get to where we are is to out work, out hustle, etc bigger and stronger teams.  This notion that another team 'wanted it more' is about as gay as it gets.

[drewm88]

Meanwhile, the idea that someone "wants it more" is one of the worst sports cliches out there.

It's about as cliched as how a winning team has great chemistry, but losing teams have bad chemistry.

IMO, there's some truth to that. Having played on teams on both ends of the chemistry spectrum, it's a lot easier find your rhythm individually and as a team on a squad with good chemistry. Yes, that does trace back to talent to an extent (it's easier to gel if you're succeeding), but that's not all of it.

[mug644]

If we, when going into the big east tourny are considered 'a Lock' by every national expert then it is only a dissapointment if we were favored to win the conference.  We weren't favored to win by anyone (including people on this board).  It would have been nice to win one or two of those games we lost and been higher on the ladder by a rung or two.  But it wouldn't make too much of a difference in the long run.  We are a lock for the third time in as many years.  And I didn't see anything this season to make me think that will change in the next few years.  I can't see a reason to be dissapointed about this year.  If you are your standards are way to high for some small private school out of wisconsin.

Good points. One way that I am not disappointed so far, is that we haven't lost any games that we really should have won. That is definitely an improvement over years past. It seems that we have always lost at least one or two games that we had no business losing. Unless we lose tonight, or we end up with a 5 or 6 seed in the tourney as lose in the first round, such a downer will not have happened.

That said, we have lost dramatically and unexpectedly in a number of games, where we seemingly didn't show up or left early.

For me, I guess I expected/hoped for at least Sweet 16 showing this year. As the season has played out, I will only be disappointed if we only win one more game this season.

Too early firmly state that the season has been disappointing.

[Boognish_MU]

Have you ever heard of hustle?

Yes, it's mantra number one for me as a coach....albeit Little League.      Are you suggesting this team doesn't hustle? 

If so, I just don't agree.  Sure there are moments, like there are with any team.  But for a team as undersized as MU is, the ONLY way to get to where we are is to out work, out hustle, etc bigger and stronger teams.  This notion that another team 'wanted it more' is about as gay as it gets.

I'm not sure I see what wanting it more and homesexuality have in common.  I am just saying that I don't think that this saying is completely cliche.  I think you can say a team "wants it more" and look at things like hustle, free throws, execution