Philipe Ndong to Marquette

[MuggsyB]

At this point, my expectation of NEPSAC players is that they're probably going to disappoint whatever my expectations are. What makes 3-star Ndong more promising than Itejere or Amadou were?

With Fru eligible to return (by age) that means we're one over for next year. And while the staff won't say this, they absolutely are trying to add at least two more freshmen for next year.

If that comes to pass, we're running off 3 to start with. So why bring in another project at a position we've had a 20% hit rate at so far (Gold the one success)? If you're running someone off, at least do it for a contributor, which Ndong seems 3 years away from being if it all goes well.

This reads beyond pessimistic at this juncture.  You cannot make a correlation of past MU players to current MU players based on star rankings or any other metrics.  We can easily cite those who have overachieved or underachieved based on expectations or "rankings".  Perhaps it would be prudent to give the young man a chance before he steps onto the court and in a MU uni?

[MuMark]

From Finkelstein

The Fit at Marquette

It is no secret that player development and player retention are two of the focal points of Marquette's program. They are also interconnected variables. When players get better, and see an increased opportunity with each passing year, they're more likely to return. Similarly, when retention is the norm, it's easier for coaches to invest in the players who are already in their program, instead of recruiting over them out of the transfer portal.


That's why they are one of the few high-major programs that make sense for Ndong. He undeniably needs to be somewhere that will invest in his long-term development, and not just look at this as a one-year proposition. The reality is, he may not be able to help them next season. But if they can put real weight on him, get him adjusted to playing Big East caliber competition on a daily basis, acclimate him to their culture, and prepare him for minutes in the 2028-29 season, there's merit in that plan.

Long-term, he's not just someone with clear potential, but someone who fits what Marquette looks for in the frontcourt. Royce Parham, David Joplin, and Oso Ighodaro are all skilled frontcourt players that have found success under Smart, and the hope is that Ndong could be the latest to exceed external expectations along that same path

[MuMark]

Comes from a great AAU program too

[brewcity77]

This reads beyond pessimistic at this juncture.  You cannot make a correlation of past MU players to current MU players based on star rankings or any other metrics.  We can easily cite those who have overachieved or underachieved based on expectations or "rankings".  Perhaps it would be prudent to give the young man a chance before he steps onto the court and in an MU uni?

Have you often found that ignoring past trends and precedents is a good way to predict future expectations?

Like I said off the bat, I hope he succeeds, but I'm not going to play ostrich and pretend there's no reason for skepticism. And knowing we're one over for 2027-28 and planning on at least two freshman additions, while probably needing to add 1-2 transfers on top of that, I just don't get bringing in another project on a team full of them.

[MuMark]

Rivals Jamie Shaw report from July 10


4-star F Philipe Ndong (2027) had perhaps the performance of the day in his second game of the Under Armour Next Live period. The 6-foot-10 forward is thin, but he is a fluid mover. He knocked down multiple threes, both off movement and off the bounce. He also attacked the basket from the wing. The Rivals four-star will need strength and to continue to streamline his game, but the upside here is massive. Marquette's Shaka Smart was in to watch as he finished with a game-high 16 points on three threes in the Middlesex Magic win. He is Rivals' No. 95 overall player in 2027  

[MuggsyB]

Have you often found that ignoring past trends and precedents is a good way to predict future expectations?

Like I said off the bat, I hope he succeeds, but I'm not going to play ostrich and pretend there's no reason for skepticism. And knowing we're one over for 2027-28 and planning on at least two freshman additions, while probably needing to add 1-2 transfers on top of that, I just don't get bringing in another project on a team full of them.

Again, "past precedents" and "trends" aren't black and white nor clearly illustrate your point.  That doesn't mean you can't be skeptical, but I believe judgement should be reserved until after the kid has some playing time for us.

[tower912]

Brew's eeyore scenario certainly sets up what is to me a very interesting question.

After NMD in February, a poster reached out and recounted a conversation he had with high ranking MU officials. 
Shaka's seat was ice cold.
MU would be active in the portal
Two were leaving. (Sheek shocked us all)
No GM.
MU would spend to keep the young stars.

The thing the high ranking official said that will be sorely tested in Brew's scenario is that MU doesn't run off players.  They constantly communicate, they discuss roles and other recruits.

But the decision to stay or go is the player's.

The information turned out to be pretty good.   Will that part of Shaka's/MU's philosophy change?

[Hards Alumni]

This reads beyond pessimistic at this juncture.  You cannot make a correlation of past MU players to current MU players based on star rankings or any other metrics.  We can easily cite those who have overachieved or underachieved based on expectations or "rankings".  Perhaps it would be prudent to give the young man a chance before he steps onto the court and in a MU uni?

The current admin messed with brew's happy, and he's kinda been like this for a year or so now.

[MarquetteMike1977]

Welcome Philipe!

[Galway Eagle]

Brew's eeyore scenario certainly sets up what is to me a very interesting question.

After NMD in February, a poster reached out and recounted a conversation he had with high ranking MU officials. 
Shaka's seat was ice cold.
MU would be active in the portal
Two were leaving. (Sheek shocked us all)
No GM.
MU would spend to keep the young stars.

The thing the high ranking official said that will be sorely tested in Brew's scenario is that MU doesn't run off players.  They constantly communicate, they discuss roles and other recruits.

But the decision to stay or go is the player's.

The information turned out to be pretty good.  Will that part of Shaka's/MU's philosophy change?

I do think that Shaka's smart enough to strongly encourage a guy to leave without "running him off" so that he can keep his hands technically clean but still encourage transfers.

Like you can say "we've fielded calls from XYZ that are looking to offer you $$ and we're only going to pay $ given what you've shown and the MPG you're expected to play are dropping considering this other guy just leaped you. You know you're welcome back but this is the reality and I encourage you to make the best choice for your love of playing basketball and financial situation"

[Uncle Rico]

Does anyone know how he'd fit into Brian Wardle's offensive system?

[The Sultan]

I do think that Shaka's smart enough to strongly encourage a guy to leave without "running him off" so that he can keep his hands technically clean but still encourage transfers.

Like you can say "we've fielded calls from XYZ that are looking to offer you $$ and we're only going to pay $ given what you've shown and the MPG you're expected to play are dropping considering this other guy just leaped you. You know you're welcome back but this is the reality and I encourage you to make the best choice for your love of playing basketball and financial situation"

I think this is 100% accurate.

[brewcity77]

Again, "past precedents" and "trends" aren't black and white nor clearly illustrate your point.  That doesn't mean you can't be skeptical, but I believe judgement should be reserved until after the kid has some playing time for us.

I reserved judgment for Hamilton twice when the staff said he'd have a major impact. I reserved judgment when the staff said that Josh Clark was either an amazing find and everyone would regret letting him come here or they'd look stupid. I reserved judgment for Keeyan and Amadou and Gold. The only one to pan out was Ben, who basically developed into a replacement level player but never took that final step.

Once bitten, twice shy. Four times bitten, maybe it's your fault for sticking your hand in the shark's mouth so many times.

[MuggsyB]

I reserved judgment for Hamilton twice when the staff said he'd have a major impact. I reserved judgment when the staff said that Josh Clark was either an amazing find and everyone would regret letting him come here or they'd look stupid. I reserved judgment for Keeyan and Amadou and Gold. The only one to pan out was Ben, who basically developed into a replacement level player but never took that final step.

Once bitten, twice shy. Four times bitten, maybe it's your fault for sticking your hand in the shark's mouth so many times.

I respectfully disagree with your analogy Brew.  Let me explain why:

You're 1000% correct about these colossal whiffs by Shaka.  There's no sugarcoating it and we all saw the utter futility of these players on the floor.  I will even take it a step further and reiterate that if "26-27 is another disaster for MU hoops, a contingent of Scoopers should show Shaka the door.

Here's my retort:  You must take into account the really great/good decisions Shaka has made roster wise during his tenure at MU.  You cannot discuss this in a two year window vacuum, or from player to player comps, that seemingly validate a particular narrative.  The success or failure of the new players on our roster have absolutely nothing to do with Caedin, Josh, Al, Tyko, OMax,  Nigel,  or anyone else we've had in past seasons.

[Scoop Snoop]

I will even take it a step further and reiterate that if "26-27 is another disaster for MU hoops, a contingent of Scoopers should show Shaka the door.

   

[MU82]

Hamilton and Amadou didn't work out, therefore the guy who was right about Kolek, Oso, Kam, OMax, Parham and James should never be trusted again.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

[MuMark]

Every coach recruits guys who don't pan out.......and others who exceed projections.

It happened with Buzz, Crean, Bo Ryan, Hurley......and yes it's happened with Shaka.

Many thought Tyler was a bust after year 1.........some thought we needed to go to the portal when Kur graduated......Shaka said Oso would be fine.

He was wrong on Keeyan, Amadou and probably Hamilton.......not ready to right off Clark yet.

This kid seems to have an offensive skill set that is intriguing........just needs strength.....time will tell but let's give him a chance before trashing the commitment.

Ndong also had an offer from Creighton .........Clark and Hamilton were spring recruits without any high major offers.

[brewcity77]

The current admin messed with brew's happy, and he's kinda been like this for a year or so now.

I'd love to be more optimistic. As soon as the admin and staff gives me reason to be, I will. But when they move into a field of rakes and challenge each other to see who can step on the most, I'm going to call a spade a spade.

[Uncle Rico]

I'd love to be more optimistic. As soon as the admin and staff gives me reason to be, I will. But when they move into a field of rakes and challenge each other to see who can step on the most, I'm going to call a spade a spade.

Are rakes part of the spade family?

[Hards Alumni]

Are rakes part of the spade family?

I do not dig this conversation, you best leaf it alone.

[Uncle Rico]

I do not dig this conversation, you best leaf it alone.

Metal rakes can dig, but bamboo and plastic?  Not so much.  Spades can't really rake, so I don't think they're necessarily in the same family.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I hope for the best with Ndong and would love to see him thrive here and outperform the expectations Adam Finkelstein and myself have for him.

That said, I just don't get this. Recruiting is changing. Taking a project when you could redshirt them and transfers had to sit out, making the move less appealing, made sense in 2017. But now it's 2027.

Every assessment of this guy indicates he's a project. As good as Jaxson Hayes was for Shaka at Texas and as good as Oso turned out to be after barely playing his freshmen year, we've seen 5 project bigs (Keeyan, Amadou, Gold, Hamilton, Clark) and the only one to develop to even the rotation player level was Gold.

High major programs are moving away from high school players. If you can get a top-50 kid, great. But otherwise, it makes more sense to dedicate roster spots to players with a proof of concept. Everyone always asks "oh yeah, who would willingly take a bench role?" How about Fred King at Creighton, Wilson Jacques at DePaul, NJ Benson at Georgetown, Samson Aletan at Providence, and Nikolaus Chitikoudis at Xavier? All of them are more proven big bodies that are D1 ready.

Some services have Ndong top-100. That's fine for him, but I'm of the opinion that the lowest level of high school players we should target are in the Egbuonu range. This just feels like we're trying to build rosters the same way we always did. It garnered mixed results before and seems likely to only push is further back if we stick with it going forward.

It's possible (but maybe unlikely) that 7 of our top 8 are all back next year.  So with 15 roster spots I don't really get the concern in this particular instance.

[Hards Alumni]

Metal rakes can dig, but bamboo and plastic?  Not so much.  Spades can't really rake, so I don't think they're necessarily in the same family.

If you get a diesel powered jet blower it could probably do both jobs.

Subscribe to my podcast for more fun facts.

[Uncle Rico]

If you get a diesel powered jet blower it could probably do both jobs.

Subscribe to my podcast for more fun facts.

Have you seen diesel prices?  No, thanks.