RIP Marquette 2025-2026 Men's Basketball Season

[panda]

It's dark, we're drunk... look, this is MU86NC's fantasy, not mine!

Whatever happens happens. I'm along for the ride. Make up make out is the best kind of make out

[Jay Bee]

This is quickly turning into a Dayton chat board...er, transitioning to

[panda]

This is quickly turning into a Dayton chat board...er, transitioning to

Love is love beejay

[brewcity77]

I don't disagree with this, but I do think it's interesting that we had a lot of people comparing Wojo's trajectory with Jay Wright, insisting it takes time to build a program. I was actually onboard with some of these arguments even though it never materialized.

Shaka's first five years here mirror Nova from 06-12, minus the one final four. 13-19 season with a young but talented core in 2012, improved to 20-14 the following year, then the elite run started after that.

If Shaka misses the tournament next year but it's a 19-13 kind of year and it's pretty clear we'll be better the following year, he should be retained. As long as we see a willingness to change his strategy from what got us to this year, there's no reason to move on. He's a good coach that's brought us to regular season heights that I hadn't seen in my lifetime.

It's funny because I was looking for historical comparisons of how a good rebound for our program might look and Jay Wright's 2012 was the first that came to mind. Others worth taking a look at, Bob Huggins 2013/14 at WVU and his 2019 at WVU, then Coach K's health-shortened 1995 season at Duke.

[Elonsmusk]

bro, pass it

So you loved Jerel's 87 O-Rating as a freshman?  Or Wes's 99?  And you think Dominic James is better than Nigel James?

Stephens turned in 112.4, on albeit on less usage than Wes.  Parham clocked a 114 O-Rating on 20% usage

If either Chase or Ben Gold played like Novak did as a senior with the Big 3. this team would have been similarily good.  Instead?  Both players regressed offensively.

Larger point is that there is a lot to like about our underclassmen, and you are a massive Damarius fanboy...so that should excite you.  I like DO, but I like Mike Phillips better.  Think he'll take a nice step up next season.

[Elonsmusk]

If this is was a blip, then yes. If they rebuild through the portal, reinforcing the core 3, and are back in single digit seed, fighting for protected seed territory next year, then yes. However that is clearly not a given and this season has shown that Shaka no longer gets the benefit of the doubt.

If we're 25-10 (14-6) after finishing top-3 in the league and playing on Saturday in the BET at this time next year, great. But if we're 17-16 (7-13) and dropped our first BET game while never seriously getting close to the bubble, then Shaka will be gone and deservedly so.

If he backs up the worst season in many of our living memories with success, he'll be back. But if he follows it up with more failure, he'll be gone. And it's absolutely crazy that you of all people don't see that clear as day.

This wasn't our worst season in many poster's living memories.  Wojo Year 1 and 2 were worse teams at least according to KenPom.  Yet, you were a Projo for 5 years?  Haven't you also been a progress isn't always linear guy?

This year was an outlier.  I'm confident Shaka will get it turned around within 1 year, and even if he doesn't I'm still giving him another year.  Fire Shaka after next season and I'd put it at 80%+ chance that all of Nigel, Adrien, and Royce are done at MU too.

I just don't get why you don't acknowledge all the good Shaka did Years 1-4 (way beyond what Wojo accomplished), but you're a hot seat for Shaka guy because of this season?

[MU86NC]

Whatever happens happens. I'm along for the ride. Make up make out is the best kind of make out

Hey - I thought you guys would just hug it out! Find some common ground😀Everyone is on edge when you have a season like we did...

[brewcity77]

This wasn't our worst season in many poster's living memories.  Wojo Year 1 and 2 were worse teams at least according to KenPom.  Yet, you were a Projo for 5 years?  Haven't you also been a progress isn't always linear guy?

There was no point in years 1-5 where changing course made sense.

2015: Sucked
2016: Clear progress, no tourney but competitive
2017: Tourney bid
2018: Narrowly missed, but 7 of top-9 players were freshmen/sophomores
2019: Made top-10, 5-seed, should've won league
--Hausers leave, from Feb 2019 was the first notable downturn in progress--
2020: Disappointing, but no one was getting fired after COVID
2021: Sucked, fired

This year was an outlier.  I'm confident Shaka will get it turned around within 1 year, and even if he doesn't I'm still giving him another year.  Fire Shaka after next season and I'd put it at 80%+ chance that all of Nigel, Adrien, and Royce are done at MU too.

Probably an outlier. And if it was he'll be fine. If it wasn't, there's absolutely zero chance anyone affiliated with Marquette should want a third year like this one.

I disagree with your 80% assessment

I just don't get why you don't acknowledge all the good Shaka did Years 1-4 (way beyond what Wojo accomplished), but you're a hot seat for Shaka guy because of this season?

He did well. But no one gets two years like this at Marquette. Not Wojo, not Shaka, not Al, not Jesus Christ. We're better than that. And I can't fathom any sane Marquette fan disagreeing with that.

[WhiteTrash]

This year was an outlier.  I'm confident Shaka will get it turned around within 1 year, and even if he doesn't I'm still giving him another year.  Fire Shaka after next season and I'd put it at 80%+ chance that all of Nigel, Adrien, and Royce are done at MU too.

This plays zero role in coaching decisions at MU and every other P5 program.

[Jay Bee]

So you loved Jerel's 87 O-Rating as a freshman?  Or Wes's 99?  And you think Dominic James is better than Nigel James?

Stephens turned in 112.4, on albeit on less usage than Wes.  Parham clocked a 114 O-Rating on 20% usage

If either Chase or Ben Gold played like Novak did as a senior with the Big 3. this team would have been similarily good.  Instead?  Both players regressed offensively.

Larger point is that there is a lot to like about our underclassmen, and you are a massive Damarius fanboy...so that should excite you.  I like DO, but I like Mike Phillips better.  Think he'll take a nice step up next season.

Look at the specifics, including usage, and understand that the average points per possession in the current era is wildly different than then. If you want to argue Wilt didn't hit enough threes, then sure.

And, yes, I still roll with Damarius.

[brewcity77]

Look at the specifics, including usage, and understand that the average points per possession in the current era is wildly different than then. If you want to argue Wilt didn't hit enough threes, then sure.

And, yes, I still roll with Damarius.

To add some context, Marquette ranked 27th nationally with 112.8 adjusted offensive rating. Pretty good.

That number this year would rank 110th nationally. It's not the same sport from an efficiency perspective.

[Jay Bee]

..but John Dawson would have been the world's greatest player ever in 2081818238 BC.

[Galway Eagle]

Is nobody going to point out he's comparing a sophomore Royce to freshmen?

[The Sultan]

So you loved Jerel's 87 O-Rating as a freshman?  Or Wes's 99?  And you think Dominic James is better than Nigel James?

Stephens turned in 112.4, on albeit on less usage than Wes.  Parham clocked a 114 O-Rating on 20% usage

If either Chase or Ben Gold played like Novak did as a senior with the Big 3. this team would have been similarily good.  Instead?  Both players regressed offensively.

Larger point is that there is a lot to like about our underclassmen, and you are a massive Damarius fanboy...so that should excite you.  I like DO, but I like Mike Phillips better.  Think he'll take a nice step up next season.

Lol

[Small Orange Soda]

This year was an outlier.  I'm confident Shaka will get it turned around within 1 year, and even if he doesn't I'm still giving him another year.  Fire Shaka after next season and I'd put it at 80%+ chance that all of Nigel, Adrien, and Royce are done at MU too.

Wojo was simply a bad coach. Not up to snuff for the job.

The concern with Shaka is his judgment. "I'll be the one guy who doesn't take transfers while also signing guys who don't get D-1 offers"

He absolutely has not done enough in his career to ever justify that attitude. And yes, he's going to change, but that's a pretty poor inherent trait. He's good, but there are plenty of coaches who have accomplished more who didn't need a year like this to understand that college basketball is in an ever changing landscape and being stubborn means seasons like this.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

There was no point in years 1-5 where changing course made sense.

2015: Sucked
2016: Clear progress, no tourney but competitive
2017: Tourney bid
2018: Narrowly missed, but 7 of top-9 players were freshmen/sophomores
2019: Made top-10, 5-seed, should've won league
--Hausers leave, from Feb 2019 was the first notable downturn in progress--
2020: Disappointing, but no one was getting fired after COVID
2021: Sucked, fired

Probably an outlier. And if it was he'll be fine. If it wasn't, there's absolutely zero chance anyone affiliated with Marquette should want a third year like this one.

I disagree with your 80% assessment

He did well. But no one gets two years like this at Marquette. Not Wojo, not Shaka, not Al, not Jesus Christ. We're better than that. And I can't fathom any sane Marquette fan disagreeing with that.

Feels like you're making a lot of excuses for Wojo. A lot of what if's and context, which can be fair at times.

But you're certainly not doing the same for Shaka.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Wojo was simply a bad coach. Not up to snuff for the job.

The concern with Shaka is his judgment. "I'll be the one guy who doesn't take transfers while also signing guys who don't get D-1 offers"

He absolutely has not done enough in his career to ever justify that attitude. And yes, he's going to change, but that's a pretty poor inherent trait. He's good, but there are plenty of coaches who have accomplished more who didn't need a year like this to understand that college basketball is in an ever changing landscape and being stubborn means seasons like this.

He understood college basketball was changing.

He had a lot of success going against the grain until this year. He earned the opportunity to do it his way.

It didn't work and now he's pivoting.

He's absolutely accountable for this season and needs to fix it but some of this criticism is comical.

[The Sultan]

Feels like you're making a lot of excuses for Wojo. A lot of what if's and context, which can be fair at times.

But you're certainly not doing the same for Shaka.

??? He isn't in the least. Is he advocating for Shaka to be fired now or something?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

??? He isn't in the least. Is he advocating for Shaka to be fired now or something?

I didn't say or infer that he was advocating for Shaka to be fired right now.

[The Sultan]

I didn't say or infer that he was advocating for Shaka to be fired right now.

You said that he was making excuses for Wojo but not Shaka. That is not what he is doing.

Wojo was fired the first time that made sense for him to be fired. Shaka hasn't reached that point, and hopefully never will. He's being very consistent.

[brewcity77]

Feels like you're making a lot of excuses for Wojo. A lot of what if's and context, which can be fair at times.

But you're certainly not doing the same for Shaka.

No, I'm not, because what happened to Wojo with a poor year 1 roster that at one point didn't have enough players to run 5-on-5 practices is what happened to Shaka in year 5 when he finally had a roster completely of his own construction.

In addition, the staff and admin were adamant that this was their path to success, which led to RGV basically becoming a toxic phrase because it symbolized what looked like a stubborn adherence to a failing model.

I'm heartened that Shaka is admitting he was wrong about their roster build and talent identification, even if not saying it in so many words. I'm hopeful that he will turn things around and am more than willing to support efforts to modernize our roster building approach, which I did not believe he would do 2 months ago but am now convinced he will.

But regardless, no one gets two seasons like this past year. No one. We aren't DePaul or Butler where you can scrape along stacking losing seasons. Even Providence fired Kim after two losing seasons.

If this happens again, it won't be me putting Shaka on the hot seat, it'll be Shaka putting Shaka on the hot seat. I'd also admit that in an era where you can flip an entire roster and culture in one offseason, I'm less inclined to support prolonged failure. What used to take 2-4 years a decade ago can now be accomplished in weeks of savvy portal recruiting. So no, I'm not as patience with this as I once was.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

You said that he was making excuses for Wojo but not Shaka. That is not what he is doing.

Wojo was fired the first time that made sense for him to be fired. Shaka hasn't reached that point, and hopefully never will. He's being very consistent.

No, I'm not, because what happened to Wojo with a poor year 1 roster that at one point didn't have enough players to run 5-on-5 practices is what happened to Shaka in year 5 when he finally had a roster completely of his own construction.

In addition, the staff and admin were adamant that this was their path to success, which led to RGV basically becoming a toxic phrase because it symbolized what looked like a stubborn adherence to a failing model.

I'm heartened that Shaka is admitting he was wrong about their roster build and talent identification, even if not saying it in so many words. I'm hopeful that he will turn things around and am more than willing to support efforts to modernize our roster building approach, which I did not believe he would do 2 months ago but am now convinced he will.

But regardless, no one gets two seasons like this past year. No one. We aren't DePaul or Butler where you can scrape along stacking losing seasons. Even Providence fired Kim after two losing seasons.

If this happens again, it won't be me putting Shaka on the hot seat, it'll be Shaka putting Shaka on the hot seat. I'd also admit that in an era where you can flip an entire roster and culture in one offseason, I'm less inclined to support prolonged failure. What used to take 2-4 years a decade ago can now be accomplished in weeks of savvy portal recruiting. So no, I'm not as patience with this as I once was.

Let's do a side-by-side of their first 5 years.

2015: Wojo: Sucked  Shaka: Tourney
2016: Wojo: Clear progress, no tourney but competitive Shaka: Tourney 2 seed
2017: Wojo: Tourney bid  Shaka: Tourney 2 seed
2018: Wojo: Narrowly missed, but 7 of top-9 players were freshmen/sophomores  Shaka: Tourney
2019: Wojo: Made top-10, 5-seed, should've won league --Hausers leave, from Feb 2019 was the first notable downturn in progress-  Shaka: Horrendous season
2020: Wojo: Disappointing, but no one was getting fired after COVID  Shaka: TBD

Sorry but "Narrowly missed, but 7 of top-9 players were freshmen/sophomores" is an excuse.

"Made top-10, 5-seed, should've won league --Hausers leave, from Feb 2019 was the first notable downturn in progress-" I don't see Brew changing the framing for Shaka last season where the team made the top 5 and was a 7 seed. 

When you look at their first 5 years side-by-side the difference is pretty stark.  Wojo never achieved consistent results.  He always provided barely just enough reason to keep him in spite of mediocre results.  Even his best team fell apart during the season and imploded after.

It's fine to disagree but my impression is it's not apples-to-apples when it comes to analyzing Shaka's tenure and his job security moving forward. 

I agree that if next season is nearly as bad as this one Shaka would likely be fired.  I wouldn't have any issue with that.  However, I think he's earned some goodwill from the first 4 years.

Personally, I expect a tourney team next season.  However, if we see a lot of improvement but end up on the wrong side of the bubble, I think firing him would be shortsighted. 

[panda]

Shaka slurpers trying to explain away last season.

Shaka did this himself. It's harder to have a season like he did this past year here than win at marquette. Gross negligence on his part led us here. Wojo stunk but he inherited a bad situation in a different time of roster building in college hoops.

[Pakuni]

I don't think anyone here is/has made the argument that Wojo is a better or equal coach.
What they're saying is:
1. There were valid and defensible reasons Wojo wasn't fired earlier.
2. There are valid and defensible reasons that Shaka would be fired after another losing season in 2026-27.

Beyond that, the ongoing insistence of some here to make Wojo the standard by which we judge Shaka makes zero sense. Wojo ultimately failed to meet the standards and expectations here. Doing better than that should be the Shaka's floor, not ceiling.
Do we think Kentucky fans are defending Mark Pope being on the hot seat next year by saying "but he's better than Billy Gillespie?"

[NCMUFan]

So the $1,000,000 question is, will we have a better W-L in 26-27 season?