Marquette University accused of pushing lower-income families toward risky loans

[Jay Bee]

"I lose my knowledge of grade school grammar if I have a drop of beer... or if I type!" — #Unleash

[#UnleashJosh]

"I lose my knowledge of grade school grammar if I have a drop of beer... or if I type!" — #Unleash

Why don't you respond to the actual question I gave you? Is it because you know YOUREEEEEEE wrong?

[Galway Eagle]

Outside of being in college and having an early tip to a gameday, can't say I've ever been interested in drinking at 9 AM for any reason.

But that's kind of the point.  9 AM, 4 PM, 8 PM, there's some drinking at weird times in there.

The award for least fun at a brunch party or at patricks day party goes to!

Also how is 4pm or 8pm weird? 4pm is the start of most happy hours at places I've worked and 8pm is like the most standard time to have some drinks I've ever heard regardless of age

[withoutbias]

The award for least fun at a brunch party or at patricks day party goes to!

Also how is 4pm or 8pm weird? 4pm is the start of most happy hours at places I've worked and 8pm is like the most standard time to have some drinks I've ever heard regardless of age

Because his explanation for drinking prior to 9 AM was that "it's almost like some people live in different time zones."  So if the explanation for 9 AM drinking is time zones, then 4 PM or 8 PM time zone differences means at some point there were some early morning drinking going on.

[muwarrior69]

Oh.

So you have no f*cking clue what "scam" actually means. Let me enlighten you. People aren't getting cheated out of their money. They aren't getting tricked into paying for things. (At most places.)

College is a high cost investment that people make hope that it makes their lives better - financially and otherwise. It is not a guaranty by any means, and many families can't cash flow it easily, and that's where problems arise.

I am all on board for having conversations about why college costs so much, and how we as a society can make it more affordable. But using phrases like "scam" quickly seperate those who engage in serious thought from those who just say sh*t. To no one's surprise, you seem firmly in the latter category.

Then why the accusation that Marquette was pushing risky loans on "poorer" families while offering grants to "more well off families"? Were the "poorer families" aware that the "better off families" were getting grants while they were offered loans. If not that sounds pretty deceitful to me and where people are being cheated out of their money and tricked into paying more.

[The Sultan]

Then why the accusation that Marquette was pushing risky loans on "poorer" families while offering grants to "more well off families"? Were the "poorer families" aware that the "better off families" were getting grants while they were offered loans. If not that sounds pretty deceitful to me.

I think the article was including academic scholarships under the overall definition of "financial aid." Was that intentional to deceive? I have no idea. But Marquette, as almost every other school, offers academic scholarships regardless of income level.

I seriously doubt Marquette is giving need-based aid to wealthy students. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

[#UnleashJosh]

Because his explanation for drinking prior to 9 AM was that "it's almost like some people live in different time zones."  So if the explanation for 9 AM drinking is time zones, then 4 PM or 8 PM time zone differences means at some point there were some early morning drinking going on.

Or I was on vacation on a different continent. You twit. Rofl

[Jay Bee]

Or I was on vacation on a different continent. You twit. Rofl

Bruh, stop. It's OK. We know you're a dumba$$. All good. Lots of people are.

[#UnleashJosh]

Bruh, stop. It's OK. We know you're a dumba$$. All good. Lots of people are.

Are you going to answer the question I asked you? Or keep deflecting because you have no good answer?

[Jay Bee]

Are you going to answer the question I asked you? Or keep deflecting because you have no good answer?

What was the question? I don't pay much attention to your posts because I know you to be a slow person, erratic and overweight.

My opinion isn't all that important (although usually correct). I hope you have a good evening, my friend. Nothing personal. I'd love nothing more than to cheers beers with you at a Natty that MU wins, but I just don't care about your words.

[#UnleashJosh]

I think the article was including academic scholarships under the overall definition of "financial aid." Was that intentional to deceive? I have no idea. But Marquette, as almost every other school, offers academic scholarships regardless of income level.

I seriously doubt Marquette is giving need-based aid to wealthy students. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

So that just means there's a bias of giving academic scholarships to wealthy families based on (insert one of 300 reasons). Which just pushes lower class families to loans.

[#UnleashJosh]

What was the question? I don't pay much attention to your posts because I know you to be a slow person, erratic and overweight.

My opinion isn't all that important (although usually correct). I hope you have a good evening, my friend. Nothing personal. I'd love nothing more than to cheers beers with you at a Natty that MU wins, but I just don't care about your words.

You sure respond to a ton of my posts to not care.

[The Sultan]

So that just means there's a bias of giving academic scholarships to wealthy families based on (insert one of 300 reasons). Which just pushes lower class families to loans.

??? How is there is a bias toward giving academic scholarships to wealthy people? Usually every applicant gets a scholarship offer, well before a FAFSA is filed, based on academic record. It's "need blind." 

But yes, wealthy people do t take out PLUS loans.

[muwarrior69]

??? How is there is a bias toward giving academic scholarships to wealthy people? Usually every applicant gets a scholarship offer, well before a FAFSA is filed, based on academic record. It's "need blind." 

But yes, wealthy people do t take out PLUS loans.

So every applicant does not pay full freight at Marquette? Is the scholarship offer the same amount for every applicant regardless of academic record? Can an applicant negotiate the scholarship offer. Is the scholarship offer basically a discount but for other reasons called a scholarship?

[The Sultan]

So every applicant does not pay full freight at Marquette? Is the scholarship offer the same amount for every applicant regardless of academic record? Can an applicant negotiate the scholarship offer. Is the scholarship offer basically a discount but for other reasons called a scholarship?

1. Most applicants do not pay full freight at Marquette and at most private schools.
2. No the scholarship amount depends on their academic record. Here is a summary.
3. Any applicant can negotiate, but it is usually not very successful.
4. Yes. I have explained this previously.

[dgies9156]

The comments earlier that college is a "scam" left me a little high and dry. I don't believe it for a minute, at least not with most schools. In fact, I still believe that college is a wise investment -- and put my money where my belief is with our children.

Here's why:

1) College opens your mind to ideas, issues and debate. It teaches you how to think, rather than strictly a trade. If one has taken advantage of the education before him or her, you've become a lifelong learner.

2) Marquette offers is a path to a degree based on programs for which Marquette is good to great at. Nobody will guarantee a student a job, an internship or even success. Not even Harvard Guarantees success. A student and a college grad must earn it. It's up to the student to understand the post-college opportunities in a field, as well as its cost-benefit ratio.

3) One of the most repeated debates today is the issue of "I can go to trade school, spend a lot less money and make a lot more money on the backside. True, and if it's your vocation to be a plumber, electrician, HVAC expert or one of many other trades, by all means, go for it. The trade will make you happy and you should have a good life. But, if your goal is Return on Investment ("ROI"), you're better off in college!

On the ROI front, my first job out of college paid between a third and half of what UAW-represented laborers made at International Harvester in the Quad Cities. The folks in the union hall were repeatedly calling me "college boy" and ridiculing me becaue their checks were perceived to be larger than mine (they clearly were, but I didn't tell 'em).

Fast forward 10 years. International Harvester was gone, their jobs eliminated. For every 1,000 machinists out of work in the region, there might have been one, maybe two machinist job openings. By contrast, I had a degree, was by then working in Chicago and had just completed an advanced degree. The opportunities for me abounded and my pay was reasonably good. What made that happen, in no small measure, was what started at Marquette.

[Hards Alumni]

Times change, Dgies.

[#UnleashJosh]

The comments earlier that college is a "scam" left me a little high and dry. I don't believe it for a minute, at least not with most schools. In fact, I still believe that college is a wise investment -- and put my money where my belief is with our children.

Here's why:

1) College opens your mind to ideas, issues and debate. It teaches you how to think, rather than strictly a trade. If one has taken advantage of the education before him or her, you've become a lifelong learner.

2) Marquette offers is a path to a degree based on programs for which Marquette is good to great at. Nobody will guarantee a student a job, an internship or even success. Not even Harvard Guarantees success. A student and a college grad must earn it. It's up to the student to understand the post-college opportunities in a field, as well as its cost-benefit ratio.

3) One of the most repeated debates today is the issue of "I can go to trade school, spend a lot less money and make a lot more money on the backside. True, and if it's your vocation to be a plumber, electrician, HVAC expert or one of many other trades, by all means, go for it. The trade will make you happy and you should have a good life. But, if your goal is Return on Investment ("ROI"), you're better off in college!

On the ROI front, my first job out of college paid between a third and half of what UAW-represented laborers made at International Harvester in the Quad Cities. The folks in the union hall were repeatedly calling me "college boy" and ridiculing me becaue their checks were perceived to be larger than mine (they clearly were, but I didn't tell 'em).

Fast forward 10 years. International Harvester was gone, their jobs eliminated. For every 1,000 machinists out of work in the region, there might have been one, maybe two machinist job openings. By contrast, I had a degree, was by then working in Chicago and had just completed an advanced degree. The opportunities for me abounded and my pay was reasonably good. What made that happen, in no small measure, was what started at Marquette.

  Well, we know how old you are now lol. Let's just say it ain't the 80s no more.

[#UnleashJosh]

??? How is there is a bias toward giving academic scholarships to wealthy people? Usually every applicant gets a scholarship offer, well before a FAFSA is filed, based on academic record. It's "need blind." 

But yes, wealthy people do t take out PLUS loans.

Did you read the article? You claimed that academic scholarships skewed the results because they lumped that in with grants.

If wealthy families are getting, on average,a large enough portion of the academic scholarships to skew the results, then there's clearly a bias for academic scholarships towards wealthy families. Probably due to better schools, smaller classes, and private tutoring (and of course, test prep). These are things lower class families don't have access to, therefore forcing them, on average, towards parent plus loans.

[The Sultan]

Did you read the article? You claimed that academic scholarships skewed the results because they lumped that in with grants.

If wealthy families are getting, on average,a large enough portion of the academic scholarships to skew the results, then there's clearly a bias for academic scholarships towards wealthy families. Probably due to better schools, smaller classes, and private tutoring (and of course, test prep). These are things lower class families don't have access to, therefore forcing them, on average, towards parent plus loans.

I read the article and you aren't understanding what it says. Every student is going to get an academic scholarship, but almost all students are going to have some balance to pay even after all scholarships and need based aid is applied.

Wealthy students don't need to take out PLUS loans because they will just pay the balance in full. So of course the demographic that take out those loans is going to be more poor than those who don't.

[#UnleashJosh]

I read the article and you aren't understanding what it says. Every student is going to get an academic scholarship, but almost all students are going to have some balance to pay even after all scholarships and need based aid is applied.

Wealthy students don't need to take out PLUS loans because they will just pay the balance in full. So of course the demographic that take out those loans is going to be more poor than those who don't.

Im just replying to what you said below. Maybe I misunderstood that part?

I think the article was including academic scholarships under the overall definition of "financial aid." Was that intentional to deceive? I have no idea. But Marquette, as almost every other school, offers academic scholarships regardless of income level.

I seriously doubt Marquette is giving need-based aid to wealthy students. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

[The Sultan]

Im just replying to what you said below. Maybe I misunderstood that part?

Here is what mu69 said: "Then why the accusation that Marquette was pushing risky loans on "poorer" families while offering grants to "more well off families"?"

My interpretation is that they, yes indeed are offering "grants" to more well off families. But those are scholarships that any student receives. "Poorer" families are getting grants as well, but those "grants" aren't enough to cover 100% of cost, so yes, they are taking out loans.

[dgies9156]

Well, we know how old you are now lol. Let's just say it ain't the 80s no more.

No kidding, Sherlock.

But the basis for going to college hasn't changed.

[Hards Alumni]

[#UnleashJosh]

No kidding, Sherlock.

But the basis for going to college hasn't changed.

Oh....? We'll let you live in bliss.