post modern Nietzschian dystopia

[hawk]

The America I grew  up in is dead.  The age of rational discouse is in retrograde and the frame of American government has been bent beyond repair.  We now live in an era of values based soley on the point of view of the holder of those values.  This is not the age of Nihilism but is the age of the brute force, might makes right and the value of a thing is what I say it is.  There is no longer a sense of objective value and common purpose.  I fear that we are at the beginiing of a dark epoch as the world was before 1914. Welcome to the new age of the will to power.

[tower912]

Agreed.  Why I have delved deeper into my faith.

[Hards Alumni]

The America I grew  up in is dead.  The age of rational discouse is in retrograde and the frame of American government has been bent beyond repair.  We now live in an era of values based soley on the point of view of the holder of those values.  This is not the age of Nihilism but is the age of the brute force, might makes right and the value of a thing is what I say it is.  There is no longer a sense of objective value and common purpose.  I fear that we are at the beginiing of a dark epoch as the world was before 1914. Welcome to the new age of the will to power.

People forget the horrors of the past because they haven't had to experience them first hand.

You can apply this to many things.

[hawk]

It is the bane of man that he forgets.  Each iteration of igorance comes with a bigger price to pay.  The last one cost two world wars and thirty 0ne years.  any guesses as to what this episode will cost?  I have seven grandchildren aged 13 to 20 two of whom are in college.  I think that it is that generation that must become the next "great generation" but I wonder what will they have to work with?

[tower912]

I have a 19 year old son.  Counting down the days until the draft is reinstated.

[hawk]

Given the age of the unitary president theory, it is possible to have it start again by executive order.  That's pretty scary not so much for the draft itself but for what any new troops would be used for.  Assuming that the debacle of this presidency is unabated what does the world and America itself look like in one year or three  and beyond the 2028 election?  Oligarhs v socialists?  I can't see how anyone wins moving forward.  No president will just give up the power of the wjhite house that was gifted by the supreme court.  The very idea of equal branches has been destroyed. 

[pbiflyer]

Agreed.  Why I have delved deeper into my faith.

Awesome, given your posting history you must be Catholic. That's Christian. you must take comfort in the fact that the country and the government is embracing Christianity. Just like that other country in the 1930s.
Oh, and in before the lock

[hawk]

Church and state by the constitution should be seperate.  As a Christian I insist on it.  Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world.  I'd take His word for it.  While it is appropriate that faith informs politics there is no place for it in politics or government proper.  I will be long in my grave before I'm caught singing onward Cristian soldier

[Billy Hoyle]

Church and state by the constitution should be seperate.  As a Christian I insist on it.  Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world.  I'd take His word for it.  While it is appropriate that faith informs politics there is no place for it in politics or government proper.  I will be long in my grave before I'm caught singing onward Cristian soldier

A pastor at a church I attended (and with whom I still stay in touch) said during a sermon, "When politics and religion are combined, both are corrupted."

[pbiflyer]

A pastor at a church I attended (and with whom I still stay in touch) said during a sermon, "When politics and religion are combined, both are corrupted."

Sounds like a commie church to me!
What's next welcoming foreigners? Feeding the less fortunate?

[hawk]

The founding fathers were men of the enlightenment not Jehova.  I must agree with Bill Hoyle.  As for feeding the less fortunate and welcoming forieners, that would seem to be the Christian thing to do

[tower912]

Welcoming foreigners?
The need is urgent.
Be fair.  No head games.
Don't be as cold as ICE.   That was yesterday. 
Do away with this double vision.  It makes me hot blooded.

[hawk]

The trouble with blind faith (not the band) is that the faithful come to believe that faith is knowledge.  Faith is never knowledge.  Part of the problem is that everybody thinks they know the truth but the truth is they only know what they think.

[Pakuni]

Welcoming foreigners?
The need is urgent.
Be fair.  No head games.
Don't be as cold as ICE.  That was yesterday. 
Do away with this double vision.  It makes me hot blooded.

I've been waiting, for a post like this to come into my life.

[MU82]

Don't worry. All will be great as soon as we conquer Iceland.

[hawk]

Kidding aside (as entertaining as it is) I have spent a year considering possible outcomes given the present condition of the government and the direction the country seems to be going.  I always try to take into account the possibility that I could be wrong but I can't seem to find a good end game for where I think we are.  It Concerns me that being born in 1951 at the begining of the ascent of the American century and now at 75 I find my country is declining faster than I am.  Any philosophy/poly sci people out there to show me light at the end of tunnel?  Been a long time coming and gonna be a long time gone. 

[18thandWells]

I've been waiting, for a post like this to come into my life.

Welcoming foreigners?
The need is urgent.
Be fair.  No head games.
Don't be as cold as ICE.   That was yesterday. 
Do away with this double vision.  It makes me hot blooded.

I rate this post a 4.

[Shaka Shart]

I'm suing my bank for being woke.

[jesmu84]

That all sounds bad.

But at least daily living is affordable now. And my taxes are down.

[MU82]

Hey, sometimes you need a dictator.

[tower912]

Failure to learn the lessons of a century ago. 

[MU82]

Failure to learn the lessons of a century ago. 

C'mon now. Hitler, there was a painter! He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon ... two coats!"

[Shaka Shart]

Failure to learn the lessons of a century ago. 

It's dental school, not history school

[Jockey]

That all sounds bad.

But at least daily living is affordable now. And my taxes are down.

And those $3 meals are great - especially the piece of broccoli.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Kidding aside (as entertaining as it is) I have spent a year considering possible outcomes given the present condition of the government and the direction the country seems to be going.  I always try to take into account the possibility that I could be wrong but I can't seem to find a good end game for where I think we are.  It Concerns me that being born in 1951 at the begining of the ascent of the American century and now at 75 I find my country is declining faster than I am.  Any philosophy/poly sci people out there to show me light at the end of tunnel?  Been a long time coming and gonna be a long time gone. 

I am in the same place as you, hawk. Historically, these things almost always end up resulting in extremely bloody conflicts, and I am having trouble figuring out how it will play out differently this time. As I've said before, I expect the next 4-6 years to be "interesting" in the worst way.

Currently we have a masked paramilitary that is beholden to only one person terrorizing multiple U.S. cities, now deciding unilaterally they don't need search warrants, probable cause, or the Constitution. And that one person has signaled many times he will eventually turn the military fully on the citizens.

So how do these 4-6 years play out? I have been trying to game it out but don't see an obvious path. But, I am starting from the very real premise that FASCISTS DON'T VOLUNTARILY LEAVE OFFICE. If Trump is alive, he will attempt to stay in power past 2028. The only scenario I see differently is if he can pull off a North Korea-style dynastic transition and pass it on to one of his spawn, probably Don, Jr. where he can be 1000% sure he will never be held accountable and can also keep the billions of corrupt dollars he has grifted. IMO he doesn't trust Vance nearly enough to risk turning it over to him. But that is only if Trump survives the next 3 years and can hide the accelerating cognitive decline.

I think Democrats are putting WAY too much faith in the 2026 elections. If you look at the characteristics of fascism keene.edu/academics/cchgs/resources/presentation-materials/characteristics-and-appeal-of-fascism/download/, the only one they haven't ticked off already is fraudulent elections. I kinda don't think they're going to leave that one unchecked. They're following their standard playbook of Trump floating fascist ideas ("we shouldn't even have an election") and then trying to pass it off as a joke. It isn't a joke, merely a trial balloon to start to normalize the idea, just like ICE went from catching "the worst of the worst" to warrantlessly bashing in the doors of U.S. citizens.

But, say that our institutions hold and Dems take the House. I ask myself whether that will matter. Trump is doing virtually everything by royal decree anyway by permission of the partisan Supreme Court, so will holding the House make a big difference? Even in the unlikely event the Dems take the Senate as well, does it matter? The House could impeach and there still won't be enough Republican votes to convict. So, my conclusion is that we are stuck here unless the heroic actuarial tables kick in...and if that happens, who knows what happens. We'll go from fascism to techbro authoritarianism under Vance/Musk/Thiel/Sacks. The only advantage that gives us is that those folks have a collective negative charisma, so I don't know if MAGA follows them or there is split of some sort.

TLDR; I'm pretty sure we're unnatural carnal knowledgeed and there will be a nasty reckoning within the next 6 years—either authoritarianism for 30+ years or a massive shift in our tax/economic/healthcare system to something closer to western Europe.