Big East job rankings

[wadesworld]

There's a big difference between being a hot name and on the list for somewhere like Kentucky. Kentucky fans would hone in on early high seed flame out at Texas and MU and say no chance.

While respecting everything else that Shaka has accomplished it's warranted to say he has largely underperformed in the tournament. The next two tiers of jobs above MU aren't going to be that impressed by a sweet 16 as a 2 seed an a Cinderella FF run 15yrs ago.

Maybe.  But again, there were supposedly legitimate reports that Michigan and Kentucky, at a minimum (I think I remember Louisville being in there as well), at least called Shaka, and Shaka said he had no interest (might've taken more than 1 call from Kentucky before it got to that point).

Were those schools just doing their due diligence in case options 1-5 said no?  Maybe.  Was he their top target?  No idea.  But he had those same Tournament losses prior to getting those calls.

I would think a season like this would remove him from consideration for the very top jobs.  But somebody would be lucky to have him if he were to be available.  He's a very good college basketball coach.

[NCMUFan]

Ok, so the Job ranking is the job destination spot, not the job performance of the coach.

[Scoop Snoop]

They wouldn't see only the good parts of Shaka's resume. Agree.

 some lesser P4 programs may still be interested. OK

[wadesworld]

OT, but Scoop's obsession with 2 seeds is so weird. Nobody cares about your seed (except, I guess, Scoop). Nobody hangs a banner for your seed. They don't host 10-year reunions for teams that got a 2 seed. Having a high seed is meaningful only if you play to it, which we've failed to do in four of our last five tournament appearances.

I think the point is we had awesome years to earn those 2 seeds.  Of course you want to use those high seeds and make deep runs.  But losing in a Sweet 16 instead of the expected Elite 8 shouldn't erase 4.5 months of great basketball.  Shaka has no doubt given us some great seasons.

[Pakuni]

Maybe.  But again, there were supposedly legitimate reports that Michigan and Kentucky, at a minimum (I think I remember Louisville being in there as well), at least called Shaka, and Shaka said he had no interest (might've taken more than 1 call from Kentucky before it got to that point).

Were those schools just doing their due diligence in case options 1-5 said no?  Maybe.  Was he their top target?  No idea.  But he had those same Tournament losses prior to getting those calls.

I would think a season like this would remove him from consideration for the very top jobs.  But somebody would be lucky to have him if he were to be available.  He's a very good college basketball coach.

I'm sure Kentucky and others reached out to Shaka two years ago, and he may have even been among their top candidates (despite them ultimately hiring Scott Drew).
But that candidate Shaka was coming off 29- and 27-win seasons, and a Sweet 16 appearance. That's not the candidate he is today. The candidate he is today is the guy who chose to ignore the shifting college basketball landscape and decided he would do things his own way, with ugly results. Could Shaka sell himself as a guy who's learned from those mistakes and can thrive in the current market? Sure. But I don't think many top-tier programs would take the risk if there are other options out there who've proven it (see: TJO, Hoiberg, Byington, McCasland, etc.).

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Other than a handful of programs (Michigan State, Gonzaga, Kansas, etc), this description fits 95% of college basketball programs.

And in the portal/NIL era, it's probably going to 98%

The fact that most programs see that level of coaching turnover is the point.

Marquette and Shaka have a chance to be an exception if he's willing to adjust his approach.

[brewcity77]

Could Shaka sell himself as a guy who's learned from those mistakes and can thrive in the current market? Sure. But I don't think many top-tier programs would take the risk if there are other options out there who've proven it (see: TJO, Hoiberg, Byington, McCasland, etc.).

TJO, Byington, McCasland is the short list for Kansas & UNC if they are in the market. There are 79 high major jobs & Shaka would be an upgrade at probably at least 30-40 of them. And it would be easy to say "I tried the HS model, it didn't work, I'll pivot here as long as you give me the money to do so."

RGV is a dirty word here, but he can easily divorce himself from that in an interview. And honestly, anyone hoping Shaka isn't here next year should be glad for the past 4 years. It will make him attractive to many good jobs, and a waived buyout would make it easier for Marquette to move on as well.

[Pakuni]

RGV is a dirty word here, but he can easily divorce himself from that in an interview.

This is a curious statement, but perhaps I'm misreading.
It seems youve said a few times here that it might be better to part ways with Shaka sooner rather than later because any future success would require him to betray his principles and you don't see him ever doing that.
Now you seem to be suggesting he'd easily divorce himself from those same principles for another job, and do so convincingly in an interview.
Are his principles Marquette-specific?

[79Warrior]

I think you missed the sarcasm. Elon made it clear that Shaka would have multiple offers from the P4 if he parted ways with Marquette after this umm...disappointing season.

I did. Sorry about that.

[JWags85]

There's a big difference between being a hot name and on the list for somewhere like Kentucky. Kentucky fans would hone in on early high seed flame out at Texas and MU and say no chance.

Yet they hired a coach who had never won a NCAA tourney game and only 2 NCAA berths in 10 years as a HC just cause he was an alum.

[brewcity77]

This is a curious statement, but perhaps I'm misreading.
It seems youve said a few times here that it might be better to part ways with Shaka sooner rather than later because any future success would require him to betray his principles and you don't see him ever doing that.
Now you seem to be suggesting he'd easily divorce himself from those same principles for another job, and do so convincingly in an interview.
Are his principles Marquette-specific?

I think it's harder to divorce from that here because he's preached it to this group of players for years, he's told recruits this model won't recruit over them, and he's sold admin to the point that they made it the center of Spirit Shop marketing.

At Marquette, RGV has become embedded in his brand & culture. That's why I'm so hesitant on bringing him back. Because I don't see how the pivot to even a low transfer Purdue/UConn model works here with Shaka's past comments. At a new program, he can reset all that, including expectations with players/recruits by saying he has to abide by the financial commitments of East Western State or wherever he would land.

[Hards Alumni]

I think it's harder to divorce from that here because he's preached it to this group of players for years, he's told recruits this model won't recruit over them, and he's sold admin to the point that they made it the center of Spirit Shop marketing.

At Marquette, RGV has become embedded in his brand & culture. That's why I'm so hesitant on bringing him back. Because I don't see how the pivot to even a low transfer Purdue/UConn model works here with Shaka's past comments. At a new program, he can reset all that, including expectations with players/recruits by saying he has to abide by the financial commitments of East Western State or wherever he would land.

Because people will forgive and forget.  He can say the promises of yesterday applied to the old model of college sports that he wasn't willing to adapt to until his way was made impossible.  Maybe he loses a couple of guys he was in on in the short term, but that no longer matters if he is willing to use the portal.

If a bunch of guys are gone in the off season, no one will care that "Shaka is a hypocrite" if they start winning.  Will it be a very hard pill for him to swallow?  Of course.  Which is why I said a bit ago that I could see him stepping away from coaching until there is a more structure in the rules.

Having said all this, no one will care about any of this next year if they're winning.  It'll be a blip on his record that he and everyone will remember, but the growth will also be acknowledged.

Winning solves everything.

[1SE]

Because people will forgive and forget.  He can say the promises of yesterday applied to the old model of college sports that he wasn't willing to adapt to until his way was made impossible.  Maybe he loses a couple of guys he was in on in the short term, but that no longer matters if he is willing to use the portal.

If a bunch of guys are gone in the off season, no one will care that "Shaka is a hypocrite" if they start winning.  Will it be a very hard pill for him to swallow?  Of course.  Which is why I said a bit ago that I could see him stepping away from coaching until there is a more structure in the rules.

Having said all this, no one will care about any of this next year if they're winning.  It'll be a blip on his record that he and everyone will remember, but the growth will also be acknowledged.

Winning solves everything.

Yeah - I think everyone except Caedin and Tre wants a portal-using Shaka here next year. If those guys are feeling bad about how Shaka "betrayed" them then they can console themselves with the hundreds of thousands of dollars they were paid to play a tiny bit of D-1 basketball at a very poor level. In fact, we want/need them to leave so we can bring in 2 real basketball players instead.

A 5 of Nigel, Adrian, Royce, and a Portal 5 and Portal switchable is a solid team next year. And maybe a few of the guys in reserve (DO, MP, RS/Frosh) can make some contributions off the bench. If we win with that team, no one will cry about losing our RGV purity.

[Billy Hoyle]

Because people will forgive and forget.  He can say the promises of yesterday applied to the old model of college sports that he wasn't willing to adapt to until his way was made impossible.  Maybe he loses a couple of guys he was in on in the short term, but that no longer matters if he is willing to use the portal.

If a bunch of guys are gone in the off season, no one will care that "Shaka is a hypocrite" if they start winning.  Will it be a very hard pill for him to swallow?  Of course.  Which is why I said a bit ago that I could see him stepping away from coaching until there is a more structure in the rules.

Having said all this, no one will care about any of this next year if they're winning.  It'll be a blip on his record that he and everyone will remember, but the growth will also be acknowledged.

Winning solves everything.

Exactly. Nobody called Dabo Swinney a "hypocrite" for finally dipping into the Portal and embracing NIL, (after being the only P4 team to not bring in a transfer in 2024), they said Clamson was "adjusting in a changing world it has no control over."

And how did Dabo respond when asked about his changed stance? "My mindset is always about what's best for Clemson," Swinney said on Sunday. "That's the way it's been for 16 years. And we do whatever that is."

Nobody is going to give Shaka any crap for realizing his old approach didn't work.

[WhiteTrash]

Nobody is going to give Shaka any crap for realizing his old approach didn't work.

Some on Scoop will.

[Zog from Margo]

I think it's harder to divorce from that here because he's preached it to this group of players for years, he's told recruits this model won't recruit over them, and he's sold admin to the point that they made it the center of Spirit Shop marketing.

At Marquette, RGV has become embedded in his brand & culture. That's why I'm so hesitant on bringing him back. Because I don't see how the pivot to even a low transfer Purdue/UConn model works here with Shaka's past comments. At a new program, he can reset all that, including expectations with players/recruits by saying he has to abide by the financial commitments of East Western State or wherever he would land.

Shaka can easily adjust without abandoning the core principle. He can pick up transfers as needed to fill gaps.  We seem to forget that failing to do what he can to right the ship would be a breach of the trust that MU placed in him by putting him in charge of its program. It also would breach the trust placed in him by players who commit to MU.  They're not coming to MU to lose.

[DoctorV]

Very good discussion on this thread
Some excellent points made

[Scoop Snoop]

Shaka can easily adjust without abandoning the core principle. He can pick up transfers as needed to fill gaps.  We seem to forget that failing to do what he can to right the ship would be a breach of the trust that MU placed in him by putting him in charge of its program. It also would breach the trust placed in him by players who commit to MU.  They're not coming to MU to lose.

I get what you are saying but disagree that he can "easily adjust". Brew's post #110 is pretty much my take. Shaka went all-in on RGV as the operating system of Marquette basketball. Is bringing in transfers not recruiting over players he brought in from HS? After the Valpo game, he had about 30 seconds to comment and shoehorned in the word "growth". And his "We believe in growth" after being blown out by Wisconsin did not lead me to believe that he is ready to depart substantially from RGV.

Another issue is money. It seems we do not know exactly how it is distributed, but I don't think high-value transfers are coming to Marquette for RGV. How would the current players react if the "pay plan" rewarded the newcomers?

Your breach of trust comments are spot on, but they also illustrate how Shaka has put himself in such a difficult position.

I would love to have a guy like Shaka as a friend or neighbor, but I never would want him as a business partner. When it becomes obvious that a product introduction, major marketing campaign, or an expansion of the business is a mistake, it is an absolute must that you have a Plan B or an exit strategy. Shaka has neither.

[Zog from Margo]

I get what you are saying but disagree that he can "easily adjust". Brew's post #110 is pretty much my take. Shaka went all-in on RGV as the operating system of Marquette basketball. Is bringing in transfers not recruiting over players he brought in from HS? After the Valpo game, he had about 30 seconds to comment and shoehorned in the word "growth". And his "We believe in growth" after being blown out by Wisconsin did not lead me to believe that he is ready to depart substantially from RGV.

Another issue is money. It seems we do not know exactly how it is distributed, but I don't think high-value transfers are coming to Marquette for RGV. How would the current players react if the "pay plan" rewarded the newcomers?

Your breach of trust comments are spot on, but they also illustrate how Shaka has put himself in such a difficult position.

I would love to have a guy like Shaka as a friend or neighbor, but I never would want him as a business partner. When it becomes obvious that a product introduction, major marketing campaign, or an expansion of the business is a mistake, it is an absolute must that you have a Plan B or an exit strategy. Shaka has neither.

Who, after this season, is not going to understand the need for changes? No MU player will fail to understand that changes will be needed after this season and the current roster didn't cut it. Players aren't that naive.

[Scoop Snoop]

Who, after this season, is not going to understand the need for changes? No MU player will fail to understand that changes will be needed after this season and the current roster didn't cut it. Players aren't that naive.

I don't think RGV can remain as MUBB's operating system. Some of the players need to "understand" that the "changes" may include the names on the fronts of their uniforms next season.

If Shaka returns, a LOT of things have to change. Maybe you see this as a peaceful transition. I don't.

[Zog from Margo]

I don't think RGV can remain as MUBB's operating system. Some of the players need to "understand" that the "changes" may include the names on the fronts of their uniforms next season.

If Shaka returns, a LOT of things have to change. Maybe you see this as a peaceful transition. I don't.

Not sure what a peaceful transition is, but the changes won't surprise anyone. Shaka has never said he wouldn't use the portal. The only problem with the RGV model was the fact that the players he recruited weren't good enough. Correcting that through the portal is not abandoning a principle and it's fulfilling Shaka's commitment to MU and its players. Everyone knows that the V in RGV is what butters the bread.

[MU82]

Shaka is a good communicator, and I really don't think he would have much trouble selling the fact that he had to make some necessary changes to compete at the highest level.

A couple/few players and their parents would be pissed, might even make angry social-media posts about "smoke and mirrors" or whatever. But almost all who matter would be fine with it IMHO.

But he has to want to do that - indeed, he had to sell the change to himself first and foremost.

Right now, not a single one of us here knows if he's willing to do that. We'll find out soon enough.

[MUEng92]

That list is going to upset quite a few fan bases.

I saw this on X.  It made me laugh how many people didn't read the largest font words on the chart and thought it was ranking the teams performances this year.

[Scoop Snoop]

Not sure what a peaceful transition is, but the changes won't surprise anyone. Shaka has never said he wouldn't use the portal. The only problem with the RGV model was the fact that the players he recruited weren't good enough. Correcting that through the portal is not abandoning a principle and it's fulfilling Shaka's commitment to MU and its players. Everyone knows that the V in RGV is what butters the bread.

We are going to agree to disagree, and we may have to leave it at that. To be clear, I do respect your opinions. I just do not agree with them.

I do not see the "only problem" with RGV as being the current mess. Its success going forward is contingent upon Shaka's ability to identify, with a very high rate of success, HS recruits who will become high-level players. I thought he could do that and was a solid supporter of RGV, trusting in his ability to find the diamonds in the rust. Exhibit A is the current team. How Shaka and his staff did not see this coming is mind-boggling. We were assured that Hamilton was so improved, that we would have a tenacious defense, and we would see the growth of the players. Didn't happen.

I think Shaka coming to Marquette was a huge plus for the program, and it was just that for 3 1/2 seasons. If he stays, RGV will, I believe, confine us to being a middle-of-the-pack BE team going forward. If he finds (or has already found) a player who becomes a star, the bidding wars for stars will probably lure him away from RGV.

I think Brew's central point (or perhaps I should say my understanding of it) is that Shaka may need to leave Marquette to shed the burdens of RGV. If so, I'm certain that he will not be the next coach at Kentucky.

Edit: If I heard Shaka say something along the lines of "This season's problems are on me. I'm focusing on turning this season around, but there will definitely be some major changes at the end of the season.", then I would have a more positive outlook on his staying at Marquette. And the players would "understand" what that means. Instead, hearing "growth" amidst this fiasco makes me roll my eyes. He's circling the wagons. Patching RGV up is not going to resolve problems in the long run. I'm fine with it being background music, but when we win (rarely this season) I'm certain that the home crowd will not be cheering We R...v G!

[Zog from Margo]

We are going to agree to disagree, and we may have to leave it at that. To be clear, I do respect your opinions. I just do not agree with them.

I do not see the "only problem" with RGV as being the current mess. Its success going forward is contingent upon Shaka's ability to identify, with a very high rate of success, HS recruits who will become high-level players. I thought he could do that and was a solid supporter of RGV, trusting in his ability to find the diamonds in the rust. Exhibit A is the current team. How Shaka and his staff did not see this coming is mind-boggling. We were assured that Hamilton was so improved, that we would have a tenacious defense, and we would see the growth of the players. Didn't happen.

I think Shaka coming to Marquette was a huge plus for the program, and it was just that for 3 1/2 seasons. If he stays, RGV will, I believe, confine us to being a middle-of-the-pack BE team going forward. If he finds (or has already found) a player who becomes a star, the bidding wars for stars will probably lure him away from RGV.

I think Brew's central point (or perhaps I should say my understanding of it) is that Shaka may need to leave Marquette to shed the burdens of RGV. If so, I'm certain that he will not be the next coach at Kentucky.

Edit: If I heard Shaka say something along the lines of "This season's problems are on me. I'm focusing on turning this season around, but there will definitely be some major changes at the end of the season.", then I would have a more positive outlook on his staying at Marquette. And the players would "understand" what that means. Instead, hearing "growth" amidst this fiasco makes me roll my eyes. He's circling the wagons. Patching RGV up is not going to resolve problems in the long run. I'm fine with it being background music, but when we win (rarely this season) I'm certain that the home crowd will not be cheering We R...v G!

I understand your concerns and you might be right. To me, RGV is coach speak and can occur whether a player is a HS recruit or a transfer (e.g,, Kolek, OMax, Morsell, etc.). I share the concern about talent evaluation. This season provides little comfort regarding Shaka's ability to identify talent. The frosh class and incoming class look pretty good, but not good enough to make MU competitive without going to the portal.