Chase and Ben

[Heisenberg]

What Happened?

https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/2008199981950505404?s=20

https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/2008201546916671925?s=20

[MuggsyB]

What Happened?

https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/2008199981950505404?s=20

https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/2008201546916671925?s=20

It's an astonishing stat Heisy. We know we're not good, but no one could have imagined the struggles of Ben & Chase.  Ben is playing with effort but he can't make a shot.  Chase has long stretches where it honestly looks like he's checked out.  Both are much better players than they've shown through 15 games. 

[GBPhoenix1993]

With Gold specifically, his shooting mechanics just don't look smooth at all.  Maybe it's one of those things where once he sees a few go down he'll relax a bit and his release will be smoother.  That said, just the way his shot typically releases isn't ideal even when he's hitting. Once he gets his confidence back I think he'll be okay, I just hope it happens for him soon.

[tower912]

To my eyes, he is shooting with his weight on his heels a little bit.

[Pakuni]

The irony here is that this is exactly what RGV is supposed to prevent. Players are supposed to be eased into increasing roles/responsibility every year as they grow, develop and learn from the older guys. It actually worked with Kam, Stevie and Jop. It's been a disaster with the 2022 and 2023 classes, who've proven woefully unprepared/inadequate for their expanded roles.

[#UnleashMalik]

Shockingly, the guys who weighed us down the past two years, are still weighing us down as seniors.

[mug644]

To my eyes, he is shooting with his weight on his heels a little bit.

I've never been a coach like you, but I see the weight on his shoulders, the weight of trying to be a leader when it may not come naturally to him, the weight of carrying a sad season.

[cheebs09]

Ben's shot has always been pretty flat. It doesn't leave room for a lot of margin for error.

[Daniel]

Physically, Ben and Chase are in shape - no issues we know of.  Historically they hit a much much higher percent if their shots.

This year not so much.   Why?   There is no doubt this team is mentally spent.    The seniors have had a first three years that were pretty darn good as a team.   This year, the losses have mounted early and quickly.    Are they string leaders who can shake this off and lead the team and players around or through the obstacles in front of them?    Not really.   Neither one are natural leaders.   

So an emotionally spent team, leaderless, that now is conscious of every crap they take and predicting in their own heads it's not going in.  Pressure.  Pressure.  James plays loose and with confidence,   Lots to learn still, but he plays with passion and confidence.

RGV is supposed to manage the mental part of the game.   And I think that is exactly what has failed this year.   And mostly with the older guys.   RGV isa good thing.  I think every team thinks along those same parameters, and might have a different or no tag for it.    But.... RGV also necessitates talent.   Physical and mental talent.   Those are the things that the G focuses on.   

And it seems the R is a little less obvious this year.  Losing can do that.   The V, well we all know where that is.

So..... use all means to build the best team you can. . . High school recruits, portal, whatever.

When something is working you keep doing it.   When it is not, you change.  Or . . .

[Galway Eagle]

Shockingly, the guys who weighed us down the past two years, are still weighing us down as seniors.

Lmao this is a ridiculous take. Chase was a pretty impressive freshman, sophomore and junior.

He hasn't taken the jump to be an effective alpha dog and that sucks but now to act like he and be. Held us back these past two years (one of which was a 2 seed) is idiotic.

[Jockey]

What ever happened to player improvement? Who has progressed from last year?

The only player who got better was Hamilton - and he just went from awful to pretty bad.

The seniors got worse. The Juniors got worse. The sophomores have shown little to no improvement.

Is there any coaching even happening at this stage? Or is it a total surrender? If we don't go HEAVILY into the portal this year, the program will officially become Depaul.

[Heisenberg]

What ever happened to player improvement? Who has progressed from last year?

The only player who got better was Hamilton - and he just went from awful to pretty bad.

The seniors got worse. The Juniors got worse. The sophomores have shown little to no improvement.

Is there any coaching even happening at this stage? Or is it a total surrender? If we don't go HEAVILY into the portal this year, the program will officially become Depaul.

It actually happens a lot, see Jay Jay Wright ...

In his 8th year, 2008/2009, Nova made the Final Four.

They then had a three-year slide:

2009–10, 25–8
2010–11, 21–12
2011–12, 13–19


Recall that fans were so pissed at Wright that VU Hoops (their MUScoop) promoted stories he was going to resign over a sex scandal involving a student. It was completely unfounded, but a symptom that the fan base wanted him gone.

Fans said he "could not coach" and was only a "recruiter." (The same was said about Wojo.)

Interestingly, 2012 is now viewed by Nova fans as the "hiccup" that saved the program. Wright used the failure to "course-correct," moving away from chasing high-profile NBA prospects and focusing on "culture" and four-year players. This shift led directly to the arrival of the Ryan Arcidiacono class and the most successful run in program history.

They won two Nattys (2016 and 2018), and made another final four (2022).

---

Maybe this year's failure will be Shaka's "course-correct" where he starts using the portal and engaging with agents.

[1SE]

It actually happens a lot, see Jay Jay Wright ...

In his 8th year, 2008/2009, Nova made the Final Four.

They then had a three-year slide:

2009–10, 25–8
2010–11, 21–12
2011–12, 13–19


Recall that fans were so pissed at Wright that VU Hoops (their MUScoop) promoted stories he was going to resign over a sex scandal involving a student. It was completely unfounded, by a symptom that the fan base wanted him gone.

Fans said he "could not coach" and was only a "recruiter." (The same was said about Wojo.)

Interestingly, 2012 is now viewed by Nova fans as the "hiccup" that saved the program. Wright used the failure to "course-correct," moving away from chasing high-profile NBA prospects and focusing on "culture" and four-year players. This shift led directly to the arrival of the Ryan Arcidiacono class and the most successful run in program history.

They won two Nattys (2016 and 2018), and made another final four (2022).

---

Maybe this year's failure will be Shaka's "course-correct" where he starts using the portal and engaging with agents.

It actually happens a lot, see Jay Jay Wright ...

In his 8th year, 2008/2009, Nova made the Final Four.

They then had a three-year slide:

2009–10, 25–8
2010–11, 21–12
2011–12, 13–19


Recall that fans were so pissed at Wright that VU Hoops (their MUScoop) promoted stories he was going to resign over a sex scandal involving a student. It was completely unfounded, by a symptom that the fan base wanted him gone.

Fans said he "could not coach" and was only a "recruiter." (The same was said about Wojo.)

Interestingly, 2012 is now viewed by Nova fans as the "hiccup" that saved the program. Wright used the failure to "course-correct," moving away from chasing high-profile NBA prospects and focusing on "culture" and four-year players. This shift led directly to the arrival of the Ryan Arcidiacono class and the most successful run in program history.

They won two Nattys (2016 and 2018), and made another final four (2022).

---

Maybe this year's failure will be Shaka's "course-correct" where he starts using the portal and engaging with agents.

That's the best case scenario. At this point I think we've beaten the horse all we can - March will tell all...

[Jockey]

This MU season is nothing like Nova going 12-19.

We are Depaul - not Villanova.

[Markusquette]

The only player who got better was Hamilton - and he just went from awful to pretty bad.

I'm afraid that would be a glowing review of him if that were the truth

[Heisenberg]

This MU season is nothing like Nova going 12-19.

We are Depaul - not Villanova.

Said with massive hindsight bias, but in 2012, they were sliding to become Depaul

[#UnleashMalik]

Lmao this is a ridiculous take. Chase was a pretty impressive freshman, sophomore and junior.

He hasn't taken the jump to be an effective alpha dog and that sucks but now to act like he and be. Held us back these past two years (one of which was a 2 seed) is idiotic.

 

[#UnleashMalik]

Lmao this is a ridiculous take. Chase was a pretty impressive freshman, sophomore and junior.

He hasn't taken the jump to be an effective alpha dog and that sucks but now to act like he and be. Held us back these past two years (one of which was a 2 seed) is idiotic.

Weighing down does not equal holding back. Use the words i used please.

Ben and chase absolutely weighed the other starters down, causing them to do more work, be better, and make plays.

Now that we don't have kam magic, koleks play making, and oso's paint work we now see the holes these two create.

[Shooter McGavin]

The irony here is that this is exactly what RGV is supposed to prevent. Players are supposed to be eased into increasing roles/responsibility every year as they grow, develop and learn from the older guys. It actually worked with Kam, Stevie and Jop. It's been a disaster with the 2022 and 2023 classes, who've proven woefully unprepared/inadequate for their expanded roles.

They are not elite scorers.  Both are very good complimentary players/scorers. 

As far as Ben.  He has always been on his heels leaning backward shooting.  Always been a front rim guy with a flat shot.  When he goes straight up he is much better.  Really bad habit of having very little legs and pushing his shot at the rim.  He just doesn't look confident taking open threes tho year for some reason.  Too much pressure this year year as a senior leader.

[Shooter McGavin]

Physically, Ben and Chase are in shape - no issues we know of.  Historically they hit a much much higher percent if their shots.

This year not so much.   Why?   There is no doubt this team is mentally spent.    The seniors have had a first three years that were pretty darn good as a team.   This year, the losses have mounted early and quickly.    Are they string leaders who can shake this off and lead the team and players around or through the obstacles in front of them?    Not really.   Neither one are natural leaders.   

So an emotionally spent team, leaderless, that now is conscious of every crap they take and predicting in their own heads it's not going in.  Pressure.  Pressure.  James plays loose and with confidence,   Lots to learn still, but he plays with passion and confidence.

RGV is supposed to manage the mental part of the game.   And I think that is exactly what has failed this year.   And mostly with the older guys.   RGV isa good thing.  I think every team thinks along those same parameters, and might have a different or no tag for it.    But.... RGV also necessitates talent.   Physical and mental talent.   Those are the things that the G focuses on.   

And it seems the R is a little less obvious this year.  Losing can do that.   The V, well we all know where that is.

So..... use all means to build the best team you can. . . High school recruits, portal, whatever.

When something is working you keep doing it.   When it is not, you change.  Or . . .

100%.  Have tried multiple times since the end of last year to say this.  Shaka had multiple players with elite skills and traits on his first team (the first wave of talent)and has not recruited anywhere close to it since.  TRGV.  The T is the most important.

[Markusquette]

Weighing down does not equal holding back. Use the words i used please.

Ben and chase absolutely weighed the other starters down, causing them to do more work, be better, and make plays.

Now that we don't have kam magic, koleks play making, and oso's paint work we now see the holes these two create.

I'd say you're right to an extent about Gold as he's never really been starting caliber. Also reignites the argument about Shaka's roster and not finding adequate big men to allow Ben to play a more fitting role off the bench.

I don't think Chase was weighing the other guys down. He was able to focus more on being a disruptor on defense and score when it made sense. Now that Chase is tasked with being the lead shot creator (which he's not good at) his shooting numbers are down and he's just not comfortable with the ball. He fell apart at the end of November.

[connie]

Lmao this is a ridiculous take. Chase was a pretty impressive freshman, sophomore and junior.

He hasn't taken the jump to be an effective alpha dog and that sucks but now to act like he and be. Held us back these past two years (one of which was a 2 seed) is idiotic.

Chase was impressive, as a complimentary player.  Ben has always been a nice complimentary player.  Towards the end of last year when Kam was getting shut down neither was the kind of consistent presence that should have left anyone confident about this year.  Now, with the focus on Chase it seems obvious he cannot carry the team.  Ben's shooting is just a disaster.

[MU82]

Ben and chase absolutely weighed the other starters down, causing them to do more work, be better, and make plays.

Nah.

[MU82]

It actually happens a lot, see Jay Jay Wright ...

In his 8th year, 2008/2009, Nova made the Final Four.

They then had a three-year slide:

2009–10, 25–8
2010–11, 21–12
2011–12, 13–19


Recall that fans were so pissed at Wright that VU Hoops (their MUScoop) promoted stories he was going to resign over a sex scandal involving a student. It was completely unfounded, but a symptom that the fan base wanted him gone.

Fans said he "could not coach" and was only a "recruiter." (The same was said about Wojo.)

Interestingly, 2012 is now viewed by Nova fans as the "hiccup" that saved the program. Wright used the failure to "course-correct," moving away from chasing high-profile NBA prospects and focusing on "culture" and four-year players. This shift led directly to the arrival of the Ryan Arcidiacono class and the most successful run in program history.

They won two Nattys (2016 and 2018), and made another final four (2022).

---

Maybe this year's failure will be Shaka's "course-correct" where he starts using the portal and engaging with agents.

Good post.

[Galway Eagle]

Weighing down does not equal holding back. Use the words i used please.

Ben and chase absolutely weighed the other starters down, causing them to do more work, be better, and make plays.

Now that we don't have kam magic, koleks play making, and oso's paint work we now see the holes these two create.

That's a pretty comparable saying. If that's the best you've got you're being pedantic.

If your argument is that Chase wasn't an all American, second team all conference, or sixth man of the year then sure he held the others back. Of course that's a ridiculous argument as you need effective role players and he was just that. Able to explode occasionally so he kept defenses honest, he had a couple very clutch moments, and he was never lost out there with the starters. Your argument is like looking at the NBA champs and being upset that every single one of the starters and the 6th man aren't all stars.

Gold I'll give you. Should've said that from the get go.