New Kenpom Stat Shows This Season Is On The Players, Not Shaka

[#UnleashMalik]

We seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?

It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault? 

We had scoopers for 7 years saying wojo was great.

[WhiteTrash]

We had scoopers for 7 years saying wojo was great.

And he was a victim of his players not being very good.

[#UnleashMalik]

What are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie?  Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament?  Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships?  Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?

So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past?  He's clearly capable.  It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.

I'm not on board with the fire Shaka because of a single bad year crowd. I understand the attempt at going the traditional route.

However, let's not pretend that this is just a down year. This is an historically bad year for marquette. There's a real possibility marquette goes 5-27.

[WhiteTrash]

I'm not on board with the fire Shaka because of a single bad year crowd. I understand the attempt at going the traditional route.

However, let's not pretend that this is just a down year. This is an historically bad year for marquette. There's a real possibility marquette goes 5-27.

It is really unfathomable to believe a coach like Shaka could let this spin soooo far out of control.

Is it possible that he and his staff have so little grasp on what good college talent looks like?

Some say he is/was so invested in his RGV model that it created a blind spot, but is that not equally concerning?

[cheebs09]

I mean, looking at our interior defense, I could see how Hamilton looks much better in practice than he does in games.

[Pakuni]

We had scoopers for 7 years saying wojo was great.

No we didn't.
I'd be surprised if we had a single Scooper write "Wojo is great."

[WhiteTrash]

No we didn't.
I'd be surprised if we had a single Scooper write "Wojo is great."

Maybe they didn't call him "great", but some did say MU could never do better.

[Pakuni]

Maybe they didn't call him "great", but some did say MU could never do better.

Could never do better?
As in, Wojo is a better coach than Al, O'Neill and Crean? As in, "I know the last guy brought us to three straight Sweet 16s, but Wojo is peak Marquette"?
I'm skeptical.

[MU82]

What are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie?  Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament?  Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships?  Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?

So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past?  He's clearly capable.  It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.

I am a Shaka fan who has been called a slurper by some of his detractors here. But either a coach is responsible for what's going on with his program or he isn't.

I question the honesty and/or basketball knowledge of the Scoopers who claim that Shaka deserves little to no credit for the development of the players who helped Marquette excel from 2022-24. And I question the honesty and/or basketball knowledge of the Scoopers who claim that Shaka deserves little to no blame for the lack of development of the players on this season's team.

[WhiteTrash]

Could never do better?
As in, Wojo is a better coach than Al, O'Neill and Crean? As in, "I know the last guy brought us to three straight Sweet 16s, but Wojo is peak Marquette"?
I'm skeptical.

I 100% guaranty that there were posts claiming it would be terrible for MU to fire Wojo because he was the best option.

I'd guess there is a way to revisit those post, but I don't know how.

[MU82]

I 100% guaranty that there were posts claiming it would be terrible for MU to fire Wojo because he was the best option.

I'd guess there is a way to revisit those post, but I don't know how.

By the time we got to the 2021 part of Wojo's final season, there were very very few (if any) Scoopers claiming Wojo was the best option going forward. Maybe you could find one or two holdouts, but please don't claim that there was some kind of Keep Wojo Movement going on here, because there wasn't.

There were some Scoopers - including me - who didn't know that Marquette had alums willing to pay his buyout. I thought we might be stuck with him for another year because of that, and I wasn't happy about it. And I was one who didn't call for Wojo's firing until that final season.

Finally, whatever happened with Wojo has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on now with Shaka. It's kind of sad that, five years later, some feel the need to bring up Shaka's predecessor every time one of these discussions take place. (Not saying you, WT.)

[#UnleashMalik]

No we didn't.
I'd be surprised if we had a single Scooper write "Wojo is great."

Okay there mr Projo. We haven't forgotten. 

[WhiteTrash]

By the time we got to the 2021 part of Wojo's final season, there were very very few (if any) Scoopers claiming Wojo was the best option going forward. Maybe you could find one or two holdouts, but please don't claim that there was some kind of Keep Wojo Movement going on here, because there wasn't.

There were some Scoopers - including me - who didn't know that Marquette had alums willing to pay his buyout. I thought we might be stuck with him for another year because of that, and I wasn't happy about it. And I was one who didn't call for Wojo's firing until that final season.

Finally, whatever happened with Wojo has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on now with Shaka. It's kind of sad that, five years later, some feel the need to bring up Shaka's predecessor every time one of these discussions take place. (Not saying you, WT.)

That's fair. Also, I was guilty of supporting the extension. -I changed my tune within 6-7 months, but I was on the record as a Pro-Jo, but never because I was concerned about MU's ability to attract HC talent.

[#UnleashMalik]

I 100% guaranty that there were posts claiming it would be terrible for MU to fire Wojo because he was the best option.

I'd guess there is a way to revisit those post, but I don't know how.

It's not crazy hard to do. Hit the search, type in wojo, then under that type in the user you want to find posts from. (Easier if you also exempt the last 3 years of posts)

I found this one to be pretty funny.

College Basketball Talk pus MU at #4.
Fire Wojo, though.

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/

Also, five BE teams in the top 20 (Nova #7, Seton Hall #12, X #19, Creighton #20).
Mid-major, though.

[BM1090]

Chase has been really bad for awhile now. Like harming the team with his play bad. I suspect it's him trying to do too much, possibly also another nagging injury.

NJ has been better, but turnovers are really hurting him and even the better he's been is still pretty average by Big East starter levels.

In that same stretch:

17/36 on 2PFG
6/16 on 3PFG
ORtg: 104/45/94/92/124

That's okay for a 4th or 5th guy, but when he's trying to step into top option role, he's also partially to blame for the 0-5 record in that stretch.

A freshman who has been a legit (but average) big east starter is a win. Not his fault he's being forced into a lead role 12-18 months too early.

[#UnleashMalik]

That's fair. Also, I was guilty of supporting the extension. -I changed my tune within 6-7 months, but I was on the record as a Pro-Jo, but never because I was concerned about MU's ability to attract HC talent.

The highlight of my 99% crap posts on scoop was calling Wojo out day 1. I never gave in!

[Pakuni]

Okay there mr Projo. We haven't forgotten. 

By all means, use the search function and find where I ever called Wojo great.

Weren't you #UnleashSean? Great call there.

[Pakuni]

It's not crazy hard to do. Hit the search, type in wojo, then under that type in the user you want to find posts from. (Easier if you also exempt the last 3 years of posts)

I found this one to be pretty funny.

I didn't think Wojo should be fired coming off a 24-win season and 2nd place conference finish. And when all the "too early" top 25s projected a top 10 team.
You sure got me there.

[#UnleashMalik]

By all means, use the search function and find where I ever called Wojo great.

Weren't you #UnleashSean? Great call there.

My "unleashes" have zero to do with talent buddy. But alas, that was also before he tore his acl.

I think if you'll use that search history you'll see me as one of the first to say Sean isn't the answer.

[#UnleashMalik]

I didn't think Wojo should be fired coming off a 24-win season and 2nd place conference finish. And when all the "too early" top 25s projected a top 10 team.
You sure got me there.

Its cool, im aware you don't know ball. Keep getting that post count up with your hostility though.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The buck stops where?

One of two things is happening here: Either the players lack the talent to compete at a high level, or they have the talent but something is preventing them from playing up to their capabilities.
Whichever you choose, the responsibility falls on the coach. Either he's failing to bring in enough talent, or he's failing to bring out the best in his talent.

Unless you want to assume Shaka is an unaware of what his responsibilities are as a D1 head coach, he knows he is responsible for the players in his program.

I'd dare say a coach like Shaka would not take any job that he didn't have 100% control of who is recruited to be on his team.

Additionally, if Shaka was fired and he sued for wrongful termination, do you think his attorneys would present the players performance as a defense for his poor record?

It's truly amazing how many of you see things in black & white, with no room for nuance or context. 

Yes, responsibility and accountability ultimately fall on Shaka.  He's the head of organization, so to speak, and ultimately the buck stops with him.

But to say the players bear no or very little responsibility for this debacle is ludicrous.

In the past few games, I've seen Chase completely biff multiple breakaway laps/dunks.  This is a guy we've seen throw down some insane dunks over the past 3 seasons.  He's been abysmal for a while now - is that Shaka's fault? 

The previous two seasons, Ben Gold has shot 35.9% and 37.!% from 3.  This season, he's shooting 27.1%.  Most of the shots he has taken from 3 have been good shott.  Is Ben shooting 8-10% below what would have been reasonably expected of him this season on Shaka? 

Shaka absolutely is responsible for building a team where a Hamilton has inexplicably started and played 15-20 minutes per game. 

But sorry, guys like Chase and Ben also bear responsibility for their shortcomings this seasons.  It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. 

[Small Orange Soda]

This seems to suggest that Shaka should absolutely start using the portal, as the method seems to work but the pieces don't. Go grab guys who have proven they can succeed at this level.

[SOSW]

My "unleashes" have zero to do with talent buddy.

lol.

[WhiteTrash]

It's truly amazing how many of you see things in black & white, with no room for nuance or context. 

Yes, responsibility and accountability ultimately fall on Shaka.  He's the head of organization, so to speak, and ultimately the buck stops with him.

But to say the players bear no or very little responsibility for this debacle is ludicrous.

In the past few games, I've seen Chase completely biff multiple breakaway laps/dunks.  This is a guy we've seen throw down some insane dunks over the past 3 seasons.  He's been abysmal for a while now - is that Shaka's fault? 

The previous two seasons, Ben Gold has shot 35.9% and 37.!% from 3.  This season, he's shooting 27.1%.  Most of the shots he has taken from 3 have been good shott.  Is Ben shooting 8-10% below what would have been reasonably expected of him this season on Shaka? 

Shaka absolutely is responsible for building a team where a Hamilton has inexplicably started and played 15-20 minutes per game. 

But sorry, guys like Chase and Ben also bear responsibility for their shortcomings this seasons.  It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. 

Terribly unfair and disrespectful to Shaka.

If you think that Shaka feels he's just along for the ride to any degree, you don't think much of him as a program builder and leader.

[panda]

It's truly amazing how many of you see things in black & white, with no room for nuance or context. 

Yes, responsibility and accountability ultimately fall on Shaka.  He's the head of organization, so to speak, and ultimately the buck stops with him.

But to say the players bear no or very little responsibility for this debacle is ludicrous.

In the past few games, I've seen Chase completely biff multiple breakaway laps/dunks.  This is a guy we've seen throw down some insane dunks over the past 3 seasons.  He's been abysmal for a while now - is that Shaka's fault? 

The previous two seasons, Ben Gold has shot 35.9% and 37.!% from 3.  This season, he's shooting 27.1%.  Most of the shots he has taken from 3 have been good shott.  Is Ben shooting 8-10% below what would have been reasonably expected of him this season on Shaka? 

Shaka absolutely is responsible for building a team where a Hamilton has inexplicably started and played 15-20 minutes per game. 

But sorry, guys like Chase and Ben also bear responsibility for their shortcomings this seasons.  It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. 

There have been a few games where Chase has been poor and Ben is just Ben. I've said it in the past and credit to musk for saying it more recently but neither are lead dogs.

They need some degree of talent around them and it isn't even remotely available. That's not their fault. It is a gross miscalculation of roster construction on the part of our fearless leader.