New Kenpom Stat Shows This Season Is On The Players, Not Shaka

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I do think this shows Nevada Smith is doing his job in terms of running the offense and generating looks.

The guys handling player evaluation, recruiting, and development? Not so much.

Player evaluation, especially evaluating recruits, is definitely on my list of concerns.

When I look at the third year players and compare them to some of the other players Shaka was recruiting in that class, I wonder how things might be different.

Players like Dailyn Swain, Devin Royal, and Dai Dai Ames would look pretty good right now.

[Elonsmusk]

To be clear, Shaka holds all of the blame for this this disaster but without further ado...

Players responsible for this abomination (in no particular order) -

Tre Norman
Caedin Hamilton
Sean Jones
Damarius Owens
Zaide Lowery
Josh Clark


Putting these bums out with a proven player like Chase Ross and flipping the script to say it's his fault is pathetic.

You have some kind of thing for Chase Ross?  Maybe Chase is only a "proven player" if he's in a supporting role - not capable of being an alpha player?  Funny you call other guys on the team bums, when Chase has played like a bum for the better part of the last month.

And as far as your list above - Chase largely plays most with Nigel, Adrien, Royce, and Ben.  But nice to selectively suggest his poor performance is due to the bottom half of the roster.

[WhiteTrash]

No, it's not like that at all.

This is the responsibility of both the players and Shaka & staff.

Shaka himself would not agree with you. 

[panda]

You have some kind of thing for Chase Ross?  Maybe Chase is only a "proven player" if he's in a supporting role - not capable of being an alpha player?  Funny you call other guys on the team bums, when Chase has played like a bum for the better part of the last month.

And as far as your list above - Chase largely plays most with Nigel, Adrien, Royce, and Ben.  But nice to selectively suggest his poor performance is due to the bottom half of the roster.

No - the teams poor performance is much more related to the horrible performance of the list provided than Chase.

Chase is our only consistent offensive option this year and has had two maybe three bad games this year.

This is so foolish even for your standards.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Shaka himself would not agree with you. 

Feel free to explain...

[Pakuni]

No, it's not like that at all.

This is the responsibility of both the players and Shaka & staff.

The buck stops where?

One of two things is happening here: Either the players lack the talent to compete at a high level, or they have the talent but something is preventing them from playing up to their capabilities.
Whichever you choose, the responsibility falls on the coach. Either he's failing to bring in enough talent, or he's failing to bring out the best in his talent.

[panda]

The buck stops where?

One of two things is happening here: Either the players lack the talent to compete at a high level, or they have the talent but something is preventing them from playing up to their capabilities.
Whichever you choose, the responsibility falls on the coach. Either he's failing to bring in enough talent, or he's failing to bring out the best in his talent.

Your forgot option C - it's Chase Ross' fault

[WhiteTrash]

Feel free to explain...

Unless you want to assume Shaka is an unaware of what his responsibilities are as a D1 head coach, he knows he is responsible for the players in his program.

I'd dare say a coach like Shaka would not take any job that he didn't have 100% control of who is recruited to be on his team.

Additionally, if Shaka was fired and he sued for wrongful termination, do you think his attorneys would present the players performance as a defense for his poor record?

[Elonsmusk]

No - the teams poor performance is much more related to the horrible performance of the list provided than Chase.

Chase is our only consistent offensive option this year and has had two maybe three bad games this year.

This is so foolish even for your standards.

Yep - Chase has been consistently bad for the last month.  Dating back to Dec 6 Wisconsin game:

12/42 on 2pt FG
4/20 on 3pt FG
O-Ratings of 97, 56, 47, 85, 70

But hey, Chase deserves no blame for the poor performance by the team.  He's the victim here, right?

Try harder Panda, even by your foolish standards, suggesting Chase has been our "only consistent offensive option" this year is dumb.  Nigel has been massively better.

[Heisenberg]

Another chart from KenPom database showing how Marquette's shooting is not just bad, but historically/epically bad.

Marquette is shooting 30.6% from Three. This ranks them 289 out of 365 D1 teams.

The orange dots are P4 (ACC, B10, B12, SEC) plus BE teams. Only Boston College (the worst P4 + BE team) and Florida (highly rated, but they don't rely on 3P shooting) are worse.

Combine it with the 2-point shooting/distance stats above, and a strong case can be made that Marquette is not "just" a poor shooting team, but the single worst shooting team in all of D1 basketball.

All games through January 1
You cannot view this attachment.

(interesting side note, the best and worst three-point shooting teams are both from New Haven, CT.)

[panda]

Yep - Chase has been consistently bad for the last month.  Dating back to Dec 6 Wisconsin game:

12/42 on 2pt FG
4/20 on 3pt FG
O-Ratings of 97, 56, 47, 85, 70

But hey, Chase deserves no blame for the poor performance by the team.  He's the victim here, right?

Try harder Panda, even by your foolish standards, suggesting Chase has been our "only consistent offensive option" this year is dumb.  Nigel has been massively better.

That's simply not true.

Chase has had 2 horrible games (Gtown/creighton) and one bad game (Wisconsin).

Otherwise he's been the least of our problems and we lose to valpo and maybe CMU without him.

[Pakuni]

Another chart from KenPom database showing how Marquette's shooting is not just bad, but historically/epically bad.

If only the coach had some control over the quality of shooters on his roster.

[brewcity77]

Yep - Chase has been consistently bad for the last month.  Dating back to Dec 6 Wisconsin game:

12/42 on 2pt FG
4/20 on 3pt FG
O-Ratings of 97, 56, 47, 85, 70

But hey, Chase deserves no blame for the poor performance by the team.  He's the victim here, right?

Try harder Panda, even by your foolish standards, suggesting Chase has been our "only consistent offensive option" this year is dumb.  Nigel has been massively better.

Chase has been really bad for awhile now. Like harming the team with his play bad. I suspect it's him trying to do too much, possibly also another nagging injury.

NJ has been better, but turnovers are really hurting him and even the better he's been is still pretty average by Big East starter levels.

In that same stretch:

17/36 on 2PFG
6/16 on 3PFG
ORtg: 104/45/94/92/124

That's okay for a 4th or 5th guy, but when he's trying to step into top option role, he's also partially to blame for the 0-5 record in that stretch.

[#UnleashMalik]

This is a weird defense of Shaka. He recruited the players who cant shoot from 3 feet.

[SOSW]

We seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?

It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault? 

[panda]

We seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?

It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault? 

The terms people and serious is doing a lot of heavy lifting when referring to Elon musk.

[Heisenberg]

Final chart from KenPom's database on shooting. FT%

Marquette is 215th of 265 teams.

When the ball leaves their hand, bad things happen.

All games through January 1
You cannot view this attachment.

Side note, during the five-game losing streak (starting with the Wisconsin game), Marquette's FT% has been 62.4% (58 of 93). On the chart above, this % ranks 354th out of 365 teams.

[Elonsmusk]

We seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?

It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault? 

What are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie?  Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament?  Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships?  Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?

So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past?  He's clearly capable.  It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.

[WhiteTrash]

We seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?

It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault? 

It is a serious gap of logic. Unless you want to damage Shaka's reputation, there is no reason to frame Shaka as only partially at fault.

I think there is firm ground to say Shaka should come back based upon the body of his work. I generally agree with that position, but to say he's not 100% responsible for this year is dishonest, and frankly disrespectful to Shaka.

[Elonsmusk]

Chase has been really bad for awhile now. Like harming the team with his play bad. I suspect it's him trying to do too much, possibly also another nagging injury.

NJ has been better, but turnovers are really hurting him and even the better he's been is still pretty average by Big East starter levels.

In that same stretch:

17/36 on 2PFG
6/16 on 3PFG
ORtg: 104/45/94/92/124

That's okay for a 4th or 5th guy, but when he's trying to step into top option role, he's also partially to blame for the 0-5 record in that stretch.

Nigel definitely played awful at Purdue, but was pretty solid at Wisconsin. Keep in mind the kid is a freshman..Chase a 4th year senior.  Nigel's Big East numbers are well beyond that of a 4th or 5th guy.  His stats so far though just 3 conference games likely put him as an All Big East 1st/2nd team player:

Rankings in conference:
Usage: 3
% Shots: 14
eFG% 16
Assist Rate: 3
Block %: 17
Steal %: 10
Fouls Committed: 18
Fouls Drawn: 19
FT Rate: 18
3 pt FG%: 14

[WhiteTrash]

What are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie?  Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament?  Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships?  Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?

So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past?  He's clearly capable.  It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.

You are just trolling. Everyone is saying the exact opposite.

Shaka is 100% responsible for the performance of the MU basketball team. All the glory and all the blame. Just like every other big time college program.

[Pakuni]

What are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie?  Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament?  Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships?  Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?

So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past?  He's clearly capable.  It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.

1. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Juwan Howard led Michigan to a Big 10 title, was national coach of the year and went to an Elite 8 then Sweet 16 in consecutive seasons. Two years later, he was fired. And I'm sure somewhere there was a message board fan demanding he be given a pass because of his past accomplishments.

2. Interesting that you give Shaka credit for previous players' growth, and a pass on current players' lack of growth. How exactly have the players not held up their end of the bargain? Give me the inside scoop on how they're not heeding the coaching of Shaka and his staff.

3. The repeated "it's one down year" mantra is getting old. Last year's collapse is on him. He failed to build a roster that could grind out a full season, and had no answers when things started turning south. And barring a significant change in philosophy or extraordinary leap in development by multiple players, there's little reason to believe next year's team is going to be much/any better.

[SOSW]

What are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie?  Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament?  Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships?  Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?

So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past?  He's clearly capable.  It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.

Yes. He's done great at Marquette. Which is why he deserves the opportunity to correct course. I am most certainly not suggesting he should be fired.

But if we are giving him credit for his initial years here, we have to give him blame for this year. That's how it works.

[WhiteTrash]

But if we are giving him credit for his initial years here, we have to give him blame for this year. That's how it works.

That's goofy, I bet you think the world is round and that 1+1=2. Just crazy talk.

[Pakuni]

Yes. He's done great at Marquette. Which is why he deserves the opportunity to correct course. I am most certainly not suggesting he should be fired.

But if we are giving him credit for his initial years here, we have to give him blame for this year. That's how it works.

Yep. I'd guess about 90% or more of Scoop believes Shaka should be given a chance to fix his mess. The "debate" here is Elon trying to absolve Shaka of responsibility for the mess he made.