Losing the Fight

[Elonsmusk]

I meant to say yes but autocorrect changed to he's.

I've never seen a Marquette team this bad. It's not because of an injury. It's not because of an unexpected player departure. This roster is years of roster malpractice engineered by Shaka Smart. This product is completely his own doing. I don't think the school will act this year, but he should be gone. This roster, in game decision making and ultimately results this year are so grossly unacceptable I cannot believe anyone can actually defend it.

Gotcha..so you think he should be fired after this season?

And from SilverWarrior on Dodd's board - Here are Chase's BE numbers so far - a player voted First Team Big East by league coaches.  This Shaka's fault too?  Think we'd have beaten Seton Hall and Georgetown wasn't horrible?

For BE games only......

Chase's Offensive Rating is 69.2% over three games. Among the 38 BE players who have been involved in 20% or more of possessions so far, CR ranks dead last - 38th!!!!!!!

Chase's EFG% is an incredible 24.4%. Among the 46 BE players who have played at least 60% of their team's minutes, CR ranks dead last - 46th!!!!!! No other player is under 30.0%, and the median efg% is 51.7%!!!

Chase's 2-point fg% is an awful 25.0% (7 of 28). He's taken an average of 9.3 2-pointers per game and made an average of 2.3. Of the 72 BE players who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes, CR ranks 68th!!!!!

Chase's 3-point fg% is an equally awful 15.4% (2 of 13). Among the 53 BE players who have played 40% of their team's minutes and taken at least 2 treys per game, CR ranks 46th!!!!!!!!

These are just the stats. I'm sure no one on this board expected to see these numbers. The BE coaches sure didn't since they named him pre-season first-team all-BE. I'm equally certain Shaka didn't anticipate this happening.

[WhiteTrash]

Gotcha..so you think he should be fired after this season?

And from SilverWarrior on Dodd's board - Here are Chase's BE numbers so far - a player voted First Team Big East by league coaches.  This Shaka's fault too?  Think we'd have beaten Seton Hall and Georgetown wasn't horrible?

For BE games only......

Chase's Offensive Rating is 69.2% over three games. Among the 38 BE players who have been involved in 20% or more of possessions so far, CR ranks dead last - 38th!!!!!!!

Chase's EFG% is an incredible 24.4%. Among the 46 BE players who have played at least 60% of their team's minutes, CR ranks dead last - 46th!!!!!! No other player is under 30.0%, and the median efg% is 51.7%!!!

Chase's 2-point fg% is an awful 25.0% (7 of 28). He's taken an average of 9.3 2-pointers per game and made an average of 2.3. Of the 72 BE players who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes, CR ranks 68th!!!!!

Chase's 3-point fg% is an equally awful 15.4% (2 of 13). Among the 53 BE players who have played 40% of their team's minutes and taken at least 2 treys per game, CR ranks 46th!!!!!!!!

These are just the stats. I'm sure no one on this board expected to see these numbers. The BE coaches sure didn't since they named him pre-season first-team all-BE. I'm equally certain Shaka didn't anticipate this happening.

I don't think Shaka suddenly forgot how to be a great coach and I'd like him back if he is up for it, but it is literally his job to know what his players are capable of and he's in the best position to know it.

Plus surrounding Chase with BE talent would help him immensely.

[SOSW]

I think it's very obvious that Shaka and the staff severely underestimated this roster's talent and ability to compete. How else would we get these pre-season tweets about Caedin, only to see that he's just not a very good basketball player?

And that's part of coaching.

https://x.com/jonrothstein/status/1983941697106018690?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg

[WhiteTrash]

I think it's very obvious that Shaka and the staff severely underestimated this roster's talent and ability to compete. How else would we get these pre-season tweets about Caedin, only to see that he's just not a very good basketball player?

And that's part of coaching.

https://x.com/jonrothstein/status/1983941697106018690?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg

Accurate report.

Too bad he couldn't compete for a starting position on a MAC team. 

[panda]

Gotcha..so you think he should be fired after this season?

And from SilverWarrior on Dodd's board - Here are Chase's BE numbers so far - a player voted First Team Big East by league coaches.  This Shaka's fault too?  Think we'd have beaten Seton Hall and Georgetown wasn't horrible?

For BE games only......

Chase's Offensive Rating is 69.2% over three games. Among the 38 BE players who have been involved in 20% or more of possessions so far, CR ranks dead last - 38th!!!!!!!

Chase's EFG% is an incredible 24.4%. Among the 46 BE players who have played at least 60% of their team's minutes, CR ranks dead last - 46th!!!!!! No other player is under 30.0%, and the median efg% is 51.7%!!!

Chase's 2-point fg% is an awful 25.0% (7 of 28). He's taken an average of 9.3 2-pointers per game and made an average of 2.3. Of the 72 BE players who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes, CR ranks 68th!!!!!

Chase's 3-point fg% is an equally awful 15.4% (2 of 13). Among the 53 BE players who have played 40% of their team's minutes and taken at least 2 treys per game, CR ranks 46th!!!!!!!!

These are just the stats. I'm sure no one on this board expected to see these numbers. The BE coaches sure didn't since they named him pre-season first-team all-BE. I'm equally certain Shaka didn't anticipate this happening.

So if Chase plays better, that makes up for the massive holes elsewhere in the roster? I don't think so.

The problem the last year and a half is much more than Chase Ross and it's wildly unfair to place blame on him.

And yes - I do let him go (IF) he declines a massive change to his roster from this season. Why hang onto him for another season with the same roster only for a marginal improvement on this season and then let him go? That's another wasted year.

[illiniwarriors]

Agreed.The roster Must change.

[Pakuni]

So if Chase plays better, that makes up for the massive holes elsewhere in the roster? I don't think so.

The problem the last year and a half is much more than Chase Ross and it's wildly unfair to place blame on him.

And yes - I do let him go (IF) he declines a massive change to his roster from this season. Why hang onto him for another season with the same roster only for a marginal improvement on this season and then let him go? That's another wasted year.

Yep, exactly.
Chase has been pretty bad the last 5 games or so, and I suspect that has a lot to do with him realizing his senior year is being wasted because of the lack of talent around him.
Even so, his struggles aren't the reason MU has been playing like a Horizon league program for the last month.

[Biggie Clausen]

I think it's very obvious that Shaka and the staff severely underestimated this roster's talent and ability to compete. How else would we get these pre-season tweets about Caedin, only to see that he's just not a very good basketball player?

And that's part of coaching.

https://x.com/jonrothstein/status/1983941697106018690?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg

Woof.  Just more BS from the fortress-like cult of RGV, a fortress that turned out to be a house of cards.  If only these guys could've played all their games against each other, they'd be the greatest team since Bob Knight's undefeated Indiana squad.

[Elonsmusk]

So if Chase plays better, that makes up for the massive holes elsewhere in the roster? I don't think so.

The problem the last year and a half is much more than Chase Ross and it's wildly unfair to place blame on him.

And yes - I do let him go (IF) he declines a massive change to his roster from this season. Why hang onto him for another season with the same roster only for a marginal improvement on this season and then let him go? That's another wasted year.

Wildly unfair to place blame on our highest paid player, who was voted 1st Team Big East by league coaches?  For Chase to be a 79.1 O-Rating against Tier 1 opponents and 93.4 against Tier 1 and 2?  Ben Gold is a 93.2 against Tier 1 and 96.6 against Tier 1& 2 - also very disappointing stats.  Not to mention Ben's 1-13 shooting from 3 in conference play - yet even with that poor of shooting his O-Rating in conference play is 106.2 and Chase is at 69.2

Our 2 pt FG Distance of 3.8 feet in Number 2 in D1.  We are getting open looks from three.  Missing shots you expect to make can really spiral quickly and compound negatively in other ares of the game.

In my view its on the players to put the ball in the basket, particularly when they are getting good open looks from 3.

Easy to make Shaka the fall guy for everything, but at some point you also have to put some blame on the players too.  And, going nuclear on a coach who has done really well in his first 4 years after 10 years of mediocrity at best at MU seems "wildly unfair."

[SOSW]

Wildly unfair to place blame on our highest paid player, who was voted 1st Team Big East by league coaches?  For Chase to be a 79.1 O-Rating against Tier 1 opponents and 93.4 against Tier 1 and 2?  Ben Gold is a 93.2 against Tier 1 and 96.6 against Tier 1& 2 - also very disappointing stats.  Not to mention Ben's 1-13 shooting from 3 in conference play - yet even with that poor of shooting his O-Rating in conference play is 106.2 and Chase is at 69.2

Our 2 pt FG Distance of 3.8 feet in Number 2 in D1.  We are getting open looks from three.  Missing shots you expect to make can really spiral quickly and compound negatively in other ares of the game.

In my view its on the players to put the ball in the basket, particularly when they are getting good open looks from 3.

Easy to make Shaka the fall guy for everything, but at some point you also have to put some blame on the players too.  And, going nuclear on a coach who has done really well in his first 4 years after 10 years of mediocrity at best at MU seems "wildly unfair."

The buck stops...over there somewhere. 

[WhiteTrash]

Wildly unfair to place blame on our highest paid player, who was voted 1st Team Big East by league coaches?  For Chase to be a 79.1 O-Rating against Tier 1 opponents and 93.4 against Tier 1 and 2?  Ben Gold is a 93.2 against Tier 1 and 96.6 against Tier 1& 2 - also very disappointing stats.  Not to mention Ben's 1-13 shooting from 3 in conference play - yet even with that poor of shooting his O-Rating in conference play is 106.2 and Chase is at 69.2

Our 2 pt FG Distance of 3.8 feet in Number 2 in D1.  We are getting open looks from three.  Missing shots you expect to make can really spiral quickly and compound negatively in other ares of the game.

In my view its on the players to put the ball in the basket, particularly when they are getting good open looks from 3.

Easy to make Shaka the fall guy for everything, but at some point you also have to put some blame on the players too.  And, going nuclear on a coach who has done really well in his first 4 years after 10 years of mediocrity at best at MU seems "wildly unfair."

This is some great, hall of fame level comedy.     

[panda]

Wildly unfair to place blame on our highest paid player, who was voted 1st Team Big East by league coaches?  For Chase to be a 79.1 O-Rating against Tier 1 opponents and 93.4 against Tier 1 and 2?  Ben Gold is a 93.2 against Tier 1 and 96.6 against Tier 1& 2 - also very disappointing stats.  Not to mention Ben's 1-13 shooting from 3 in conference play - yet even with that poor of shooting his O-Rating in conference play is 106.2 and Chase is at 69.2

Our 2 pt FG Distance of 3.8 feet in Number 2 in D1.  We are getting open looks from three.  Missing shots you expect to make can really spiral quickly and compound negatively in other ares of the game.

In my view its on the players to put the ball in the basket, particularly when they are getting good open looks from 3.

Easy to make Shaka the fall guy for everything, but at some point you also have to put some blame on the players too.  And, going nuclear on a coach who has done really well in his first 4 years after 10 years of mediocrity at best at MU seems "wildly unfair."

Your point is wildly foolish so I'll keep it simple. There are other players and coaching decisions that are much more to blame for our ineptitude than chase's struggles. 

[Pakuni]

Wildly unfair to place blame on our highest paid player, who was voted 1st Team Big East by league coaches?  For Chase to be a 79.1 O-Rating against Tier 1 opponents and 93.4 against Tier 1 and 2?  Ben Gold is a 93.2 against Tier 1 and 96.6 against Tier 1& 2 - also very disappointing stats.  Not to mention Ben's 1-13 shooting from 3 in conference play - yet even with that poor of shooting his O-Rating in conference play is 106.2 and Chase is at 69.2

Our 2 pt FG Distance of 3.8 feet in Number 2 in D1.  We are getting open looks from three.  Missing shots you expect to make can really spiral quickly and compound negatively in other ares of the game.

In my view its on the players to put the ball in the basket, particularly when they are getting good open looks from 3.

Easy to make Shaka the fall guy for everything, but at some point you also have to put some blame on the players too.  And, going nuclear on a coach who has done really well in his first 4 years after 10 years of mediocrity at best at MU seems "wildly unfair."

1. Who built the roster that required Chase to be the #1 guy?
2. Who recruited and developed the players that can't make layups?
3. Who recruited and developed the players that can't make open 3s?

[Elonsmusk]

This is some great, hall of fame level comedy.     

It's pure comedy if you don't think part of this team's problem is the guy who is supposed to be your best player has a 24.4% eFG in conference play and takes 28% of your team's shots.  And he hasn't been very good defensively either.

If Tyler Kolek and Kam Jones had these kind of numbers as seniors they would have been getting shredded.  Why should Chase get a pass?  Kam stepped up into Kolek's role/filled it well.  Chase started the year well against cupcakes, but hasn't been close to being able to fill the role Kam vacated.  And Chase has Nigel breaking down the defense consistently.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Maybe his coach should have known better than to put him in the position where he needs to be the next Kam or TKO. He's clearly not capable of it, so why would his coach not recognize that?

[Elonsmusk]

1. Who built the roster that required Chase to be the #1 guy?
2. Who recruited and developed the players that can't make layups?
3. Who recruited and developed the players that can't make open 3s?

I get it..Shaka's the scapegoat for all of it.  But, his faith in the guys being able to make pretty easy degree of difficulty 3's and at the basket looks wasn't misguided.

Do you think the guys didn't work on their games in the offseason?  Certainly a reasonable coach wouldn't think with more work and experience a player is going to get worse.  Seems that's happened with Chase. Ben.  Zaide, though I think Zaide was likely an internal chemistry issue with somebody(s) on the team.

Shaka has recruited more shooting with Nash Walker, Ian, and Michael Phillips..and gotten a rugged guy who can be a go to kind of guy to get a basket - Deonte Burton 2.0 (maybe) in Alex Egbouno.  So it's not like he hasn't taken some steps to add better shooters to the program.

[WhiteTrash]

It's pure comedy if you don't think part of this team's problem is the guy who is supposed to be your best player has a 24.4% eFG in conference play and takes 28% of your team's shots.  And he hasn't been very good defensively either.

If Tyler Kolek and Kam Jones had these kind of numbers as seniors they would have been getting shredded.  Why should Chase get a pass?  Kam stepped up into Kolek's role/filled it well.  Chase started the year well against cupcakes, but hasn't been close to being able to fill the role Kam vacated.  And Chase has Nigel breaking down the defense consistently.

LOL!

OK I'll be the dolt in your bit.

LET'S FIRE THE IDIOT WHO ASSEMBLED THIS TEAM FOR SHAKA!! I BET THE BADGERS ARE BEHIND THIS CONSPIRACY TO GET SHAKA!

[Elonsmusk]

Maybe his coach should have known better than to put him in the position where he needs to be the next Kam or TKO. He's clearly not capable of it, so why would his coach not recognize that?

Other Big East coaches seemed to think he was capable of being 1st Team Big East and they have 3 seasons of tape to come to their conclusion.

[WhiteTrash]

I think we all know Elonsmusk is doing a bit, but his joke is to paint Shaka as a bumbling dolt who's luck finally ran out.

Shaka deserves better. He's been one of top coaches in college for a long time.

[Pakuni]

I get it..Shaka's the scapegoat for all of it.  But, his faith in the guys being able to make pretty easy degree of difficulty 3's and at the basket looks wasn't misguided.

Do you think the guys didn't work on their games in the offseason?  Certainly a reasonable coach wouldn't think with more work and experience a player is going to get worse.  Seems that's happened with Chase. Ben.  Zaide, though I think Zaide was likely an internal chemistry issue with somebody(s) on the team.

Shaka has recruited more shooting with Nash Walker, Ian, and Michael Phillips..and gotten a rugged guy who can be a go to kind of guy to get a basket - Deonte Burton 2.0 (maybe) in Alex Egbouno.  So it's not like he hasn't taken some steps to add better shooters to the program.

Shaka is not a "scapegoat." That would imply he's being unfairly blamed. In this case, the blame is entirely justified. He assembled this team and coached them to the players they are today.

As for Nash Walker ... have we learned nothing from counting on big contributions from unknown recruits? Hoping for the best, but he's more likely to be the next Niv Berkowitz or Harry Froling than an impact player.
Phillips and Miletic can't get on the court (literally, in one case) on a team entirely bereft of shooting, so who knows what to expect there.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Respectfully - I don't think it's hyperbole to say players from one of the worst Marquette basketball teams of all time should not be rostered next season.

I can't speak to the freshmen aside from their freshmen and it's highly unlikely they'll contribute.

As for the players on the roster now, I would only keep Stevens and James. No one else should stay. I could also be convinced on parham but he is iffy.

That's an unrealistic and unnecessary overreaction. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I meant to say yes but autocorrect changed to he's.

I've never seen a Marquette team this bad. It's not because of an injury. It's not because of an unexpected player departure. This roster is years of roster malpractice engineered by Shaka Smart. This product is completely his own doing. I don't think the school will act this year, but he should be gone. This roster, in game decision making and ultimately results this year are so grossly unacceptable I cannot believe anyone can actually defend it.

It's completely possible and rational to believe this season is grossly unacceptable AND that he deserves the opportunity to fix it.

[Hards Alumni]

Shaka is not a "scapegoat." That would imply he's being unfairly blamed. In this case, the blame is entirely justified. He assembled this team and coached them to the players they are today.

As for Nash Walker ... have we learned nothing from counting on big contributions from unknown recruits? Hoping for the best, but he's more likely to be the next Niv Berkowitz or Harry Froling than an impact player.
Phillips and Miletic can't get on the court (literally, in one case) on a team entirely bereft of shooting, so who knows what to expect there.

https://www.fiba.basketball/en/players/325173-nash-walker

Especially for a kid that is trending in this direction.

We won't know what we have in him until he plays meaningful minutes next year.

[panda]

That's an unrealistic and unnecessary overreaction. 

Why ? This team is an abomination

[panda]

It's completely possible and rational to believe this season is grossly unacceptable AND that he deserves the opportunity to fix it.

In most other cases, yes. Give him another season as he's earned it through his previous body of work.

However - this performance is so egregious, and about two years of horrendous decision making that it is unforgivable. Marquette should never, ever have a season like this and it is completely within bounds to terminate him following the ineptitude.

He ignored a major roster building opportunity which led to a collapse last year and the worst season in modern Marquette basketball history this year. Next year doesn't look much better *barring major roster overhaul.