[Paint Touches] What is MU's best lineup and why don’t we see it more?

[1SE]

So I gave chatGPT the game logs from last night. Here's the breakdown through the game

1st half rotations

20:00–17:49 (02:11) +/- +3 — Caedin Hamilton; Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross

17:49–15:14 (02:35) +/- -2 — Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Ben Gold

15:14–13:36 (01:38) +/- +2 — Chase Ross; Ben Gold; Tre Norman; Caedin Hamilton; Sean Jones

13:36–13:19 (00:17) +/- +2 — Ben Gold; Tre Norman; Caedin Hamilton; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

13:19–11:51 (01:28) +/- +1 — Tre Norman; Caedin Hamilton; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens; Nigel James Jr.

11:51–08:46 (03:05) +/- +2 — Sean Jones; Damarius Owens; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Royce Parham

08:46–06:34 (02:12) +/- +0 — Chase Ross; Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Ben Gold; Michael Phillips II

06:34–06:33 (00:01) +/- +0 — Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Ben Gold; Michael Phillips II; Sean Jones

06:33–06:16 (00:17) +/- +0 — Adrien Stevens; Ben Gold; Michael Phillips II; Sean Jones; Caedin Hamilton

06:16–05:28 (00:48) +/- +1 — Adrien Stevens; Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Caedin Hamilton; Damarius Owens

05:28–05:20 (00:08) +/- +0 — Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Caedin Hamilton; Damarius Owens; Tre Norman

05:20–04:42 (00:38) +/- -2 — Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens; Tre Norman; Royce Parham

04:42–04:00 (00:42) +/- -3 — Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens; Tre Norman; Chase Ross

04:00–02:25 (01:35) +/- -5 — Sean Jones; Damarius Owens; Chase Ross; Nigel James Jr.; Caedin Hamilton

02:25–00:00 (02:25) +/- -3 — Damarius Owens; Chase Ross; Nigel James Jr.; Caedin Hamilton; Adrien Stevens

2nd half rotations

20:00–19:21 (00:39) +/- +1 — Chase Ross; Nigel James Jr.; Caedin Hamilton; Adrien Stevens; Royce Parham

19:21–16:30 (02:51) +/- -4 — Chase Ross; Nigel James Jr.; Adrien Stevens; Royce Parham; Ben Gold

16:30–16:30 (00:00) +/- -1 — Chase Ross; Nigel James Jr.; Royce Parham; Ben Gold; Damarius Owens

16:30–16:15 (00:15) +/- +0 — Nigel James Jr.; Royce Parham; Ben Gold; Damarius Owens; Sean Jones

16:15–15:20 (00:55) +/- +3 — Nigel James Jr.; Ben Gold; Damarius Owens; Sean Jones; Caedin Hamilton

15:20–11:31 (03:49) +/- -1 — Ben Gold; Damarius Owens; Sean Jones; Caedin Hamilton; Chase Ross

11:31–11:03 (00:28) +/- -2 — Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Caedin Hamilton; Chase Ross; Nigel James Jr.

11:03–09:26 (01:37) +/- +0 — Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Nigel James Jr.; Royce Parham; Damarius Owens

09:26–04:26 (05:00) +/- -4 — Ben Gold; Nigel James Jr.; Royce Parham; Damarius Owens; Chase Ross

04:26–01:55 (02:31) +/- +2 — Ben Gold; Nigel James Jr.; Royce Parham; Damarius Owens; Sean Jones

01:55–00:00 (01:55) +/- +1 — Nigel James Jr.; Royce Parham; Damarius Owens; Sean Jones; Chase Ross

and here's the breakdown by lineup:

Total 05:26 +/- -6 (2 stints) — Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Ben Gold

1H 17:49–15:14 (02:35) -2

2H 19:21–16:30 (02:51) -4

Total 05:00 +/- +3 (2 stints) — Royce Parham; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

1H 11:51–08:46 (03:05) +2

2H 01:55–00:00 (01:55) +1

Total 05:00 +/- -5 (2 stints) — Royce Parham; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Ben Gold; Damarius Owens

2H 16:30–16:30 (00:00) -1

2H 09:26–04:26 (05:00) -4

Total 04:23 +/- +2 (3 stints) — Royce Parham; Nigel James Jr.; Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

2H 16:30–16:15 (00:15) +0

2H 11:03–09:26 (01:37) +0

2H 04:26–01:55 (02:31) +2

Total 03:49 +/- -1 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Chase Ross; Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

Total 02:50 +/- +4 (2 stints) — Caedin Hamilton; Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross

1H 20:00–17:49 (02:11) +3

2H 20:00–19:21 (00:39) +1

Total 02:25 +/- -3 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Adrien Stevens; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Damarius Owens

Total 02:12 +/- +0 (1 stint) — Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Chase Ross; Ben Gold; Michael Phillips II

Total 01:38 +/- +2 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Chase Ross; Ben Gold; Tre Norman; Sean Jones

Total 01:35 +/- -5 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

Total 01:28 +/- +1 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Nigel James Jr.; Tre Norman; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

Total 00:55 +/- +3 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Nigel James Jr.; Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

Total 00:48 +/- +1 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Adrien Stevens; Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

Total 00:42 +/- -3 (1 stint) — Chase Ross; Ben Gold; Tre Norman; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

Total 00:38 +/- -2 (1 stint) — Royce Parham; Ben Gold; Tre Norman; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

Total 00:28 +/- -2 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Ben Gold; Sean Jones

Total 00:25 +/- +2 (2 stints) — Caedin Hamilton; Ben Gold; Tre Norman; Sean Jones; Damarius Owens

1H 13:36–13:19 (00:17) +2

1H 05:28–05:20 (00:08) +0

Total 00:17 +/- +0 (1 stint) — Caedin Hamilton; Adrien Stevens; Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Michael Phillips II

Total 00:01 +/- +0 (1 stint) — Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Ben Gold; Sean Jones; Michael Phillips II

So Shaka subbed 26 different times with 19 (really 18) distinct lineups. I know +/- is an iffy stat, but the two line-ups we like a lot did get a lot of PT - but also were pretty bad:

Total 05:26 +/- -6 (2 stints) — Royce Parham; Adrien Stevens; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Ben Gold

1H 17:49–15:14 (02:35) -2

2H 19:21–16:30 (02:51) -4

Total 05:00 +/- -5 (2 stints) — Royce Parham; Nigel James Jr.; Chase Ross; Ben Gold; Damarius Owens

2H 16:30–16:30 (00:00) -1

2H 09:26–04:26 (05:00) -4

That said, either Caedin or Tre was in from 6:33 to the end of the 1st half when we went from up 24-18 to down 37-33.

We suck, so it's hard to know how many conclusions to draw, but I think there are two things

1) Caedin and Tre shouldn't play

2) 19 (18) different roster permutations seems pretty high at this point of the season - How in the world can guys get "connected"/in the flow when you change up that often? How do guys get to know/trust where others are on the floor, etc. IDK if there's a conventional wisdom on this - but chat GPT seems to suggest 6-10 permutations might be reasonable at this point in the season

It seems like we really should tighten it to those 8.

And Ben - FFS - you can't go 0 fer - 31.6% now on the season from our senior leader - many of those misses wide open looks from the corner. WOOOF. 

[JoanofArcMascot]

For the life of me, I can't understand Caedin continuing to get more than 5 minutes per game.  It's just not happening with him.

He missed two point-blank layups last week.

Why the 5 minutes? Give those to Clark.

[Pakuni]

Oh boy ...

https://x.com/CrackedSidewlks/status/2002073407412973732?s=20

[tower912]

Well, when MU gets 5 guts out there who ate all playing help defense and making their layups ups, we will find out if he was right. 


After all, Zaide is.o e of the.guys in the best lineup, and, interpreting Shaka coachspeak, he was benched for a poor attitude.
  So, the conundrum for a coach, similar to the one he is having with Caedin.  If a guy is the hardest worker in practice, how much do you reward him in the game?  If a player is, according to analytics, part of your best 5, but does not have a great attitude in practice, what do you do?

Allen Iverson: We're talking about practice.

[Jay Bee]

Some guys like efficient, productive players. Some guys prefer a sparkle in a player's eye over performance.

WTF

[mug644]

I also see two broader "issues" with this data and discussion...

--a regular theme has been for guys to be a "star in their role." Do players on this year's team know their role? With so much lineup rotation, I fear that they are always auditioning for a role. I get that there was more clarity in past seasons, but I do feel that that's a valuable part of the team's culture. I think a core lineup could go a long way towards some of that clarity.

--much of what's being said about Shaka's approach, even stubbornness--from rewarding Caedin to penalizing Zaide, from purpose and aggressiveness being more valuable than analytics--does have me concerned that he may be behaving like final year-Buzz. (Like many, I believe that Buzz sabotaged that season; yes, on purpose, knowing that he'd be leaving.) Or, he is indeed so stubborn that he'll not change course re RGV, and we're in for a bad ending.

[K1 Lover]

So I gave chatGPT the game logs from last night. Here's the breakdown through the game

I don't disagree with the overall point, but how positive are you that these numbers are accurate? If you hit the rerun button and get different results, you'll have your answer.

I've personally found ChatGPT and other AI language models to be very inconsistent with calculations (especially long ones), so you may want to take the results with a grain of salt.

[panda]

Well, when MU gets 5 guts out there who ate all playing help defense and making their layups ups, we will find out if he was right. 


After all, Zaide is.o e of the.guys in the best lineup, and, interpreting Shaka coachspeak, he was benched for a poor attitude.
  So, the conundrum for a coach, similar to the one he is having with Caedin.  If a guy is the hardest worker in practice, how much do you reward him in the game?  If a player is, according to analytics, part of your best 5, but does not have a great attitude in practice, what do you do?

Allen Iverson: We're talking about practice.

He's not their friend he's the boss. It's a problem when that gets in the way of winning basketball games