[Paint Touches] What is MU's best lineup and why don’t we see it more?

[PaintTouches]

I am not usually a proponent of 2nd guessing lineups. We have smaller samples and a worse understanding of what is going on outside of the games. But when I came across some data that showed MU has a lineup that grades out as the 2nd best in the Big East, I had to dig a little deeper.

LINK HERE

Semi related, boy does MU get out to some poor starts.

[tower912]

That line up makes sense to me.

[Shooter McGavin]

I think this backs up that starting Caedin is malpractice.  Everyone thought this was the lineup a couple of games into the season (especially after the Indiana game with Nigel's vs Jones' plus minus).

Zaide vs Stevens is interesting.  Would think if either lineup got some real run together this would even out.  Zaide may be checking out a little lately due to the inconsistency in lineups and playing time.

Shaka needs to play the best players more consistently.  Why the hell not?  Is there some "life lesson" he is teaching that is above the job of winning games?

Thanks for the article.

[LAZER]

Seems like an obvious lineup. Pretty frustrating and confusing why they've hardly played together.

[Shooter McGavin]

Read the JS article today previewing the conference season and Georgetown game.  Shaka states no group of guys stand out to him. 

I wonder what he doesn't see that every single fan sees.  It's strange.

[CountryRoads]

Nigel, Chase, Lowery, Parham, Gold. That's our best lineup imo, and we'll see it more often going forward.

Posted this after the Indiana game. Was even immediately obvious to a schmuck like me. Just was surprised the guy in charge let our season get away without riding this lineup a bit more.

[Jay Bee]

Read the JS article today previewing the conference season and Georgetown game.  Shaka states no group of guys stand out to him. 

I wonder what he doesn't see that every single fan sees.  It's strange.

It's bizarre. A number of us have been calling for this lineup all year. I don't understand.

[panda]

It's bizarre. A number of us have been calling for this lineup all year. I don't understand.

You'll get more Caedin Hamilton hook
Shots and you're going to love it.

[MU82]

A few weeks ago, I was saying we needed to see this lineup. But Lowery has struggled so mightily since Thanksgiving that I'm less sure it's our best.

Still, I'd be all for giving it more of a chance - or at least a version of it with Stevens sometimes. What do we have to lose, except more games?

[Jay Bee]

A few weeks ago, I was saying we needed to see this lineup. But Lowery has struggled so mightily since Thanksgiving that I'm less sure it's our best.

Still, I'd be all for giving it more of a chance - or at least a version of it with Stevens sometimes. What do we have to lose, except more games?

Yes, since a few games in I've put an *next to Zaide for (or Stevens). But, the bigger thing for me is Royce in early and often (e.g., starting). Sometimes I get the 'doesn't matter who starts', but the staff's lineup choices, including starting lineup, have been bizarre this year.

[Markusquette]

You'll get more Caedin Hamilton hook
Shots and you're going to love it.

He's going to break out tonight for 3 points and 4 rebounds, just you wait

[Vander Blue Man Group]

For the life of me, I can't understand Caedin continuing to get more than 5 minutes per game.  It's just not happening with him.

He missed two point-blank layups last week.

[WhiteTrash]

For the life of me, I can't understand Caedin continuing to get more than 5 minutes per game.  It's just not happening with him.

He missed two point-blank layups last week.

Somebody trying to justify their financial investment?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Somebody trying to justify their financial investment?

Sunk cost.  It's not Shaka's money. 

He took 10,000 hooks shots over the summer... has he taken more than 3 total through 11 games?

I don't want to pick on the kid.  I've accepted this is going to be an awful season.  But unlike someone like Owens, I don't see the upside in continuing to give him 15-20 minutes a game. 

[DoctorV]

Solid work from paint touches, as always.

That lineup, at its best, was the best basketball we've seen this season from the Golden Eagles.

I mentioned it from game #3ish and said right after the game that it would be Shaka's chosen lineup, but I included a Zaide/Stephens split with the other 4.

Zaide played pretty poorly against Oklahoma and the following game he had a brutal start to the second half against Valpo and looked to exchange some unpleasantries with Shaka after a quick hook a few minutes in, and he hasn't been the same since.

So that leads me to two other points
A) I've been a Caedin critic since before the season, I never saw "it" with him but tried to tone back the criticism because of what Shaka has said- Caedin worked the hardest in practice for 6 weeks to earn his starting spot. It's clear that, from what Coach says, the effort is there but the ability is just what it is, and that what it is is a 6-10mpg BE player, at best.

So, then you say "well who the hell cares about practice if the kid can't play?!"
The games matter more, so why does he continue to play so much when he seems clearly overmatched?

That part is not so simple.
My educated guess is that Shaka saying that Caedin is the hardest worker in practice and has earned his minutes likely means that there are some guys on this years team that might not be putting in the effort that he desires.
So, in that case, maybe Coach feels like he has to prove a point to his own guys and continue to play the kid that is working his tail off and "earning" the minutes?

Whatever it is, Shaka has his reasons for giving Caedin all that run, and I suspect his effort and energy behind the scenes is the biggest part of that.

B) The data that ranks this lineup so high is mostly if not fully from that valpo game and before, because Zaides minutes diminished greatly after 1H of that game.
So, that to me means more extensive cupcake data than high major data.
Not doubting that it's the teams best lineup, just noting that caveat. Given what we've seen so far, I would be floored if Marquette can come up with a top 3 lineup during BE play, even if that bad got back together again for a lot more minutes.

All that aside, let give them more run again and see if the numbers hold

[RJax55]

Sunk cost.  It's not Shaka's money. 

He took 10,000 hooks shots over the summer... has he taken more than 3 total through 11 games?

I don't want to pick on the kid.  I've accepted this is going to be an awful season.  But unlike someone like Owens, I don't see the upside in continuing to give him 15-20 minutes a game. 

Hamilton has definitely worked hard to transform his body. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any noticeable improvement in his athletic ability. I don't understand the amount of minutes he is getting.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

B) The data that ranks this lineup so high is mostly if not fully from that valpo game and before, because Zaides minutes diminished greatly after 1H of that game.
So, that to me means more extensive cupcake data than high major data.
Not doubting that it's the teams best lineup, just noting that caveat. Given what we've seen so far, I would be floored if Marquette can come up with a top 3 lineup during BE play, even if that bad got back together again for a lot more minutes.

All that aside, let give them more run again and see if the numbers hold

As the article mentioned, the group has played 58 possessions in non-cupcake games and is +13 overall.

Not a huge sample size, nor particularly great results (a +22.4 NET/100 possessions), but still better than the overall results.

[WhiteTrash]

Sunk cost.  It's not Shaka's money. 

He took 10,000 hooks shots over the summer... has he taken more than 3 total through 11 games?

I don't want to pick on the kid.  I've accepted this is going to be an awful season.  But unlike someone like Owens, I don't see the upside in continuing to give him 15-20 minutes a game. 

I can't disagree.

[Pakuni]

Hamilton has definitely worked hard to transform his body. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any noticeable improvement in his athletic ability. I don't understand the amount of minutes he is getting.

NHL scouts talk a lot about "hockey sense," i.e. a player's feel for the game, ability to anticipate plays, react to the flow of the game and make smart, instinctual decisions in on the ice. Gretzky had it in spades, which is what largely made him the GOAT.
If there's a basketball equivalent, Caedin doesn't have it.

[RJax55]

NHL scouts talk a lot about "hockey sense," i.e. a player's feel for the game, ability to anticipate plays, react to the flow of the game and make smart, instinctual decisions in on the ice. Gretzky had it in spades, which is what largely made him the GOAT.
If there's a basketball equivalent, Caedin doesn't have it.

Agreed. A number of the lay-ups he's missed have been balls that should have been dunked. But he doesn't seem to have the quickness or hops do so, even after all the gym work.