Be like Matt.

[1SE]

Watched Painter's post-game - man I like him - class act. Asked about the style and he noted how similar our programs are but that we didn't go to the portal at all and they'll "continue to recruit HS guys, but in March if we see we have a need we'll go to the portal" - seems like a pretty good plan.

No idea who/what/how the Cluff recruitment went and maybe we never would have had a chance anyway even if we sniffed - but that was exactly the type of player we needed on this team and that was obvious last March - not saying we could have got him (or a guy like him - Yaxel Lendeborg (or Aday Mara), Quincy Ballard, Michael Ajayi or even Duke Brennan or Christoph Tilly or Baba Miller or Magoon Gwath etc.) - but if we weren't looking for a guy like him why not? Because we didn't think we had the $$ for that kind of player (because we had made $$ commitments to Sean and Tre and Caedin?) or because we didn't want to recruit over Caedin (and Josh)? Because he wouldn't fit our scheme? None are really a good reason. Not sure even with a Cluff(type) this is a NCAA team, but a lineup of Cluff(type), Ben (Royce), Stevens (Zaide), Chase, and Nigel probably would have more than 5 wins... 

[WarriorFan]

IMHO Shaka is a class act just as is Painter.  Let this year be a lesson for him.  Go get the talent MU needs and back to the top 25 for next year.

[Mu8891]

SE - I agree. As does the vast majority of the board, and the almost anyone with eyesight.

No one thinks MU should be a program that changes 8 to 12 guys a year, etc.
But ... wake up .. and recognize that you've got 4 to 6 guys on this roster that should be in the Horizon League
( or below ).  Add a few guys here and there. One or two a year.

But, I really think Shaka is too dug in on this, and too stubborn.

Hope I'm wrong.

[MuggsyB]

This team is clearly bereft of high D-1 talent and that's on Shaka.  And as many have pointed out, if you whiff on recruits, and they can't develop into solid rotational players, you're essentially fked if you don't use the portal.  I mean there's no way to sugarcoat this fact.  And I'm a big Shaka guy. I think he should be given the opportunity to turn things around next season.  However, if we go into 2026-7 as we are presently constructed it's going to be super ugly. 

I have no earthly idea how much guys are getting paid, Shaka's stubbornness,or how this will factor with certain players moving forward.  Frankly I don't care.  If upperclassmen can't produce and insist on staying?  Goodbye. Pay them and slam the door.  I'm sorry to be harsh but it has to be done. Bite the freaking bullet.  And if NIL or the "rules" prohibit us from 🪓 🪓 🪓 players?  Then you have to blow up everything as far as I'm concerned and go another direction.

This is a team in the vicinity of #225-250 in the country from what I've seen.  It's totally inexcusable and painfully embarrassing.  Our issues up front and having a grand total of 0.0 guys that can shoot the ball is 100% on Shaka.  We have to completely upgrade this roster and quickly.  The sad truth is, the vast majority of recruits that are not top 50 aren't
immediate drop the hammer impact guys.  They're just not.  It takes time and there are usually ups and downs.  Find the right pieces ASAP.  It's imperative. 

[HutchwasClutch]

This team is clearly bereft of high D-1 talent and that's on Shaka.  And as many have pointed out, if you whiff on recruits, and they can't develop into solid rotational players, you're essentially fked if you don't use the portal.  I mean there's no way to sugarcoat this fact.  And I'm a big Shaka guy. I think he should be given the opportunity to turn things around next season.  However, if we go into 2026-7 as we are presently constructed it's going to be super ugly. 

I have no earthly idea how much guys are getting paid, Shaka's stubbornness,or how this will factor with certain players moving forward.  Frankly I don't care.  If upperclassmen can't produce and insist on staying?  Goodbye. Pay them and slam the door.  I'm sorry to be harsh but it has to be done. Bite the freaking bullet.  And if NIL or the "rules" prohibit us from 🪓 🪓 🪓 players?  Then you have to blow up everything as far as I'm concerned and go another direction.

This is a team in the vicinity of #225-250 in the country from what I've seen.  It's totally inexcusable and painfully embarrassing.  Our issues up front and having a grand total of 0.0 guys that can shoot the ball is 100% on Shaka.  We have to completely upgrade this roster and quickly.  The sad truth is, the vast majority of recruits that are not top 50 aren't
immediate drop the hammer impact guys.  They're just not.  It takes time and there are usually ups and downs.  Find the right pieces ASAP.  It's imperative.

Our current NET ranking is 168, two spots below Robert Morris from the Horizon League. 

But take heart, we're 4 spots better than DePaul still. 

[rgoode57]

after yesterday's game I watched the UConn - Southern Cal women's game for awhile. I am not sure MU could beat the UConn women's team. Those girls are really good, play very aggressive team defense, shoot the lights out, rebound well, and move the ball constantly and effectively. In short, they do all the things well that MU doesn't. Yes, the MU guys would be bigger, bit I am not sure it would matter simply because the UConn women play beautiful team basketball. It makes me sad to say this.

[connie]

I have no earthly idea how much guys are getting paid, Shaka's stubbornness,or how this will factor with certain players moving forward.  Frankly I don't care.  If upperclassmen can't produce and insist on staying?  Goodbye. Pay them and slam the door.  I'm sorry to be harsh but it has to be done. Bite the freaking bullet.  And if NIL or the "rules" prohibit us from 🪓 🪓 🪓 players?  Then you have to blow up everything as far as I'm concerned and go another direction.
 

Our Sophomores and Juniors are on this team because someone thought they could contribute.  They were paid for their time.  They are not producing.  We can keep them around and keep whatever promises of undying loyalty were made to these players.  At the same time, our competition is recognizing that things are not working out and are moving on and we are falling behind. You do not need to have 11 new players every year, but when the potential you are counting on and have already paid for does not materialize, your obligation ends. All keeping them around does is let the next batch know you can get to your junior year, play 13 minutes and have a stat line full of -0-, and nobody is talking about you losing a paycheck.

[Viper]

Our Sophomores and Juniors are on this team because someone thought they could contribute.  They were paid for their time.  They are not producing.  We can keep them around and keep whatever promises of undying loyalty were made to these players.  At the same time, our competition is recognizing that things are not working out and are moving on and we are falling behind. You do not need to have 11 new players every year, but when the potential you are counting on and have already paid for does not materialize, your obligation ends. All keeping them around does is let the next batch know you can get to your junior year, play 13 minutes and have a stat line full of -0-, and nobody is talking about you losing a paycheck.

in sales (real world)...the kind of position many folks go into directly out of school, don't make #'s in two consecutive years, it's typically good bye, good luck. Paying players creates that dynamic. Don't produce?...good bye, good luck.

[Billy Hoyle]

but RVG and our standing as the absolute paragon of virtue in college sports is destroyed if we do what Painter has done and take two graduate transfers in three years. It would make all of those RVG sweatshirts, pint glasses, and keychains for sale obsolete.

Or maybe Shaka is recruiting HS kids, so fragile bringing in one graduate transfer would destroy team chemistry like it did Purdue's in 2023-24. Oh, wait...

[Markusquette]

after yesterday's game I watched the UConn - Southern Cal women's game for awhile. I am not sure MU could beat the UConn women's team. Those girls are really good, play very aggressive team defense, shoot the lights out, rebound well, and move the ball constantly and effectively. In short, they do all the things well that MU doesn't. Yes, the MU guys would be bigger, bit I am not sure it would matter simply because the UConn women play beautiful team basketball. It makes me sad to say this.

MU would win 100 to 15 lol

[ATL MU Warrior]

after yesterday's game I watched the UConn - Southern Cal women's game for awhile. I am not sure MU could beat the UConn women's team. Those girls are really good, play very aggressive team defense, shoot the lights out, rebound well, and move the ball constantly and effectively. In short, they do all the things well that MU doesn't. Yes, the MU guys would be bigger, bit I am not sure it would matter simply because the UConn women play beautiful team basketball. It makes me sad to say this.

This is insane

[CountryRoads]

but RVG and our standing as the absolute paragon of virtue in college sports is destroyed if we do what Painter has done and take two graduate transfers in three years. It would make all of those RVG sweatshirts, pint glasses, and keychains for sale obsolete.

Or maybe Shaka is recruiting HS kids, so fragile bringing in one graduate transfer would destroy team chemistry like it did Purdue's in 2023-24. Oh, wait...

Changing the model can't be as easily spun as some would suggest.

"Shaka never said he wouldn't use the portal" will be a common post on here if (and that's a big if) he does ultimately change his ways.

He specifically said that since they've had such good retention, which really means not losing players you don't want to lose, they haven't needed the portal. There is a very obvious difference between that and sending a low performing kid packing and replacing him with a better player. That's what is needed next season and that will be blatantly obvious to anyone that is what is happening and thus RGV will be dead.

[WhiteTrash]

after yesterday's game I watched the UConn - Southern Cal women's game for awhile. I am not sure MU could beat the UConn women's team. Those girls are really good, play very aggressive team defense, shoot the lights out, rebound well, and move the ball constantly and effectively. In short, they do all the things well that MU doesn't. Yes, the MU guys would be bigger, bit I am not sure it would matter simply because the UConn women play beautiful team basketball. It makes me sad to say this.

I'm a guy who spent countless hours coaching girls basketball and it is a great game but this is the most negative MU basketball and Shaka post ever.

[Billy Hoyle]

after yesterday's game I watched the UConn - Southern Cal women's game for awhile. I am not sure MU could beat the UConn women's team. Those girls are really good, play very aggressive team defense, shoot the lights out, rebound well, and move the ball constantly and effectively. In short, they do all the things well that MU doesn't. Yes, the MU guys would be bigger, bit I am not sure it would matter simply because the UConn women play beautiful team basketball. It makes me sad to say this.

I realize we're all justifiably upset over the current state of MU basketball, but come on, man. There is no way you could possibly believe that.

[panda]

I realize we're all justifiably upset over the current state of MU basketball, but come on, man. There is no way you could possibly believe that.

What if the other team had Caitlin Clark

[WhiteTrash]

Changing the model can't be as easily spun as some would suggest.

"Shaka never said he wouldn't use the portal" will be a common post on here if (and that's a big if) he does ultimately change his ways.

He specifically said that since they've had such good retention, which really means not losing players you don't want to lose, they haven't needed the portal. There is a very obvious difference between that and sending a low performing kid packing and replacing him with a better player. That's what is needed next season and that will be blatantly obvious to anyone that is what is happening and thus RGV will be dead.

Exactly! This is the outcome needed for Shaka and MU. But with a 15 man roster, I'm not sure why you can't have 2 transfers and 2 projects,  or there about.

[WhiteTrash]

What if the other team had Caitlin Clark

MU -75.

[panda]

MU -75.

Marquette cant defend anyone. Caitlin Clarke would rip them to shreds. Imagine pick and roll with Caedin Hamilton getting switched onto her. She would put him in the shadow realm

[Pakuni]

Speaking of being like Matt, let's develop one of our project bigs the way he seems to develop every project big.

[Billy Hoyle]

Speaking of being like Matt, let's develop one of our project bigs the way he seems to develop every project big.

or better yet, take bigs that other schools, not just high majors, actually want and can play and contribute as a freshman:

https://247sports.com/player/daniel-jacobsen-46141941/

As a freshman, Edey came off the bench in 26 of his 28 games played, only averaging 8.7 points and 4.4 rebounds per game before bumping those averages up to 14.4 points and 7.7 rebounds as a sophomore.

[Mu8891]

Exactly.

MU doesn't have " projects " ...

Hamilton and Clark are 0 star guys that no one - no one - wanted.

[Pakuni]

or better yet, take bigs that other schools, not just high majors, actually want and can play and contribute as a freshman:

https://247sports.com/player/daniel-jacobsen-46141941/

As a freshman, Edey came off the bench in 26 of his 28 games played, only averaging 8.7 points and 4.4 rebounds per game before bumping those averages up to 14.4 points and 7.7 rebounds as a sophomore.

Painter's reputation with bigs has helped him land players like Jacobsen. Earlier on, he was succeeding with guys like Isaac Haas (3-star, 144 overall), Matt Haarms (3-star, 367 overall) and of course, Zach Edey (3-star, 436 overall).

[MuggsyB]

Our Sophomores and Juniors are on this team because someone thought they could contribute.  They were paid for their time.  They are not producing.  We can keep them around and keep whatever promises of undying loyalty were made to these players.  At the same time, our competition is recognizing that things are not working out and are moving on and we are falling behind. You do not need to have 11 new players every year, but when the potential you are counting on and have already paid for does not materialize, your obligation ends. All keeping them around does is let the next batch know you can get to your junior year, play 13 minutes and have a stat line full of -0-, and nobody is talking about you losing a paycheck.

Exactly.  As I've stated numerous times Connie, this isn't 1st grade T-Ball.  You either produce at the high D-1 level or you don't.  If you're not capable and more than half the time you're basically a dumpster 🔥?  Pack your bags.  And if you don't recognize that you have an arsenal of q-tips as opposed to a lethal and unstoppable rebel force?  As the leader of this tremendous MU hoops program?  Buh-Bye.  I'm sorry but it needs to be said. We're not just mediocre or even bad, we're an abomination that is almost too difficult to quantify.  When the game is over, before it even starts, you have what I call unconscionable problems. 

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

But, I really think Shaka is too dug in on this, and too stubborn.

Hope I'm wrong.

I'm a never say never guy, so I'd say there is maybe a 2% chance of Shaka digging his heels in and being too stubborn to change. As the OP noted (and I agree) MU is not going to be getting 8-12 new players every year (and I would hate that). But 2-4? I can see that happening without Shaka having to abandon the RGV model. He'll do some tweaking next season. Shaka and basketball coaches in general are too competitive not to.