Semester grades

[Warrior of Law]

In honor of exams week, let's issue some grades (highest to lowest):

A. Nigel James, Jr. (averaging over 12 points; 3.5 assists)
B. Adrien Stevens (joining the starting line-up; getting better)
C. Chase Ross (leading scorer; turnover machine/lays eggs when it matters)
C. Ben Gold (shooting percentage decline; 3rd leading scorer)
D. Royce Parham (shooting percentage decline)
D. Josh Clark (made 2 FTs vs Valpo)
D. Michael Phillips (limited opportunities but good shooting form; could move up)
D. Zaide Lowery (shooting percentage decline; replaceable)
F. Tre Norman, Damarious Owens, Caeden Hamilton, Sean Jones, General Manager/Coaching*

*In only 12 months, MU has gone from being ranked #6 in the nation to 164th in the NET rankings competing with average MAC schools.

[Billy Hoyle]

In honor of exams week, let's issue some grades (highest to lowest):

A. Nigel James, Jr. (averaging over 12 points; 3.5 assists)
B. Adrien Stevens (joining the starting line-up; getting better)
C. Chase Ross (leading scorer; turnover machine/lays eggs when it matters)
C. Ben Gold (shooting percentage decline; 3rd leading scorer)
D. Royce Parham (shooting percentage decline)
D. Josh Clark (made 2 FTs vs Valpo)
D. Michael Phillips (limited opportunities but good shooting form; could move up)
D. Zaide Lowery (shooting percentage decline; replaceable)
F. Tre Norman, Damarious Owens, Caeden Hamilton, Sean Jones, General Manager/Coaching*

*In only 12 months, MU has gone from being ranked #6 in the nation to 164th in the NET rankings competing with average MAC schools.

Phillips gets an incomplete/IP. The same with Clark. Royce getting a D is harsh, I'd give him a B or a BC (using the old MU grading scale).

[HutchwasClutch]

In honor of exams week, let's issue some grades (highest to lowest):

A. Nigel James, Jr. (averaging over 12 points; 3.5 assists)
B. Adrien Stevens (joining the starting line-up; getting better)
C. Chase Ross (leading scorer; turnover machine/lays eggs when it matters)
C. Ben Gold (shooting percentage decline; 3rd leading scorer)
D. Royce Parham (shooting percentage decline)
D. Josh Clark (made 2 FTs vs Valpo)
D. Michael Phillips (limited opportunities but good shooting form; could move up)
D. Zaide Lowery (shooting percentage decline; replaceable)
F. Tre Norman, Damarious Owens, Caeden Hamilton, Sean Jones, General Manager/Coaching*

*In only 12 months, MU has gone from being ranked #6 in the nation to 164th in the NET rankings competing with average MAC schools.

Gold is not a C. He's been generally terrible and nowhere to be found when a basket or play is really needed.  And he's a senior.  He's terrible and is an F if not for a good 2nd half to avoid an embarrassing home loss to Valpo.  He's a D or D-

[HutchwasClutch]

No one is an A on a 5-5 team with zero wins against other high major schools.  James has shown potential, but has many areas improve. Stevens is a C.  He's flashed potential and upside, but can't give a B on that since you're grading performance to date.

Ross and James are probably B or B-

[Jay Bee]

You guys are jagz

[willie warrior]

Gold is not a C. He's been generally terrible and nowhere to be found when a basket or play is really needed.  And he's a senior.  He's terrible and is an F if not for a good 2nd half to avoid an embarrassing home loss to Valpo.  He's a D or D-

And he gets torched on switches/drives to the basket.

[Jay Bee]

Ben has been great in a lot of ways.

Others have not, but get starts and PT. I don't understand, at all.

[HutchwasClutch]

Ben has been great in a lot of ways.

Others have not, but get starts and PT. I don't understand, at all.

I don't know what the hell you're watching.  If this were true, we wouldn't be 5-5 without a high major win. As you say, #Fake News #Lies

[Jay Bee]

I don't know what the hell you're watching.  If this were true, we wouldn't be 5-5 without a high major win. As you say, #Fake News #Lies

If you think we're 5-5 because of Ben, well, there you go. No reason to converse more on the topic - u dum

[Markusquette]

What are the many ways he's been great? Genuinely curious. Maybe I've missed something. He improved his rebounding numbers.

Overall his trajectory has been disappointing. He's a serviceable bench big man at best for a potential contender. The bigger issue is the sorry state of the other guys up front.

[HutchwasClutch]

If you think we're 5-5 because of Ben, well, there you go. No reason to converse more on the topic - u dum

I think we'd have a couple more wins if he played better.  OU being one. Just two or three of his many 3 misses find the net we win that game.

You're such a pompous ass sometimes.

[Jay Bee]

I think we'd have a couple more wins if he played better.  OU being one. Just two or three of his many 3 misses find the net we win that game.

You're such a pompous ass sometimes.

You're the guy/girl claiming we lost the OU game because of Ben Gold missing two or three missed field goals. FOH

[DoctorV]

Whatever the grades are, and they aren't good, I'm just glad we can put to bed the "Shaka doesn't play freshmen" dogma

It'll pay dividends when Coach starts bringing in top 50 talent the next few years

[HutchwasClutch]

You're the guy/girl claiming we lost the OU game because of Ben Gold missing two or three missed field goals. FOH

As one of our two seniors, he scored 3 on 1-7 shooting and 0-3 from 3.  We lost by a point.  Many open looks.  So yeah, FOH.

Why don't you answer Markusquette what only you're seeing in Gold and how he's been "great in a lot of ways"

[Jay Bee]

As one of our two seniors, he scored 3 on 1-7 shooting and 0-3 from 3.  We lost by a point.  Many open looks.  So yeah, FOH.

Why don't you answer Markusquette what only you're seeing in Gold and how he's been "great in a lot of ways"

Sure 114 ORtg, 53% eFG%, insane 23% DR%, does NOT foul (unreal 1.6 FC/40), etc.

On THIS team, he's incredible.

[Markusquette]

Sure 114 ORtg, 53% eFG%, insane 23% DR%, does NOT foul (unreal 1.6 FC/40), etc.

On THIS team, he's incredible.

Look, Ben seems like a great kid. Even you know this is an exaggeration. His efficiency is decent but at a very low usage rate. His shooting overall is regressing. He spends too much time around the perimeter shooting poorly when he's actually shooting a good % from inside the arc.

Rebounding numbers (not counting today's 2 boards) look better until you see how terrible MU is rebouding defensively as a team. Would argue NOT fouling isn't really a good thing; it confirms he's too passive. How's he going to get his block rate up??

[Jay Bee]

Look, Ben seems like a great kid. Even you know this is an exaggeration. His efficiency is decent but at a very low usage rate. His shooting overall is regressing. He spends too much time around the perimeter shooting poorly when he's actually shooting a good % from inside the arc.

Rebounding numbers (not counting today's 2 boards) look better until you see how terrible MU is rebouding defensively as a team. Would argue NOT fouling isn't really a good thing; it confirms he's too passive. How's he going to get his block rate up??

His %shots has risen almost 4% compared to last year, and the teams DR has improved markedly — its the best we've seen since before covid hit

[79Warrior]

I don't know what the hell you're watching.  If this were true, we wouldn't be 5-5 without a high major win. As you say, #Fake News #Lies

Wow. There are so many reasons beyond BG why this team is a mess. How about if the players made a few more layups we would have several more wins. Never seen so many missed bunnies in my life by this group. This is not a one player fail, this is a whole team fail.

[HutchwasClutch]

His %shots has risen almost 4% compared to last year, and the teams DR has improved markedly — its the best we've seen since before covid hit

What a load of crap for a player shooting the worst he's shot since freshman year.  But increased usage explains that, right? Or just maybe, he simply isn't good enough for increased usage. 

His EFG is always going to look better because he makes quite a bit more 3's than two point FG. 

Even advanced stats can't tell nearly the whole story. If they did, why would we need to bother to watch the games to provide commentary. 

Enjoy being probably last person here defending his performance.  #Skol

[The Sultan]

What a load of crap for a player shooting the worst he's shot since freshman year.  But increased usage explains that, right? Or just maybe, he simply isn't good enough for increased usage. 

His EFG is always going to look better because he makes quite a bit more 3's than two point FG. 

Even advanced stats can't tell nearly the whole story. If they did, why would we need to bother to watch the games to provide commentary. 

Enjoy being probably last person here defending his performance.  #Skol

I don't really have a problem with Ben. He's just not good enough to be the second option on a contending team. If there was more talent around him, like last year, he can be effective in a more limited role.

[HutchwasClutch]

Wow. There are so many reasons beyond BG why this team is a mess. How about if the players made a few more layups we would have several more wins. Never seen so many missed bunnies in my life by this group. This is not a one player fail, this is a whole team fail.

There sure are many reasons, but sorry to break this, a senior who sucks is going to be held to a higher standard.  RGV ring a bell at all?

Anyone who is pleased or even fine with Gold so far this year on one of the worst teams in recent memory, I don't know what to tell you other than you truly don't get it.  But fantastic, he's a pretty good rebounder actually.

[panda]

There sure are many reasons, but sorry to break this, a senior who sucks is going to be held to a higher standard.  RGV ring a bell at all?

Anyone who is pleased or even fine with Gold so far this year on one of the worst teams in recent memory, I don't know what to tell you other than you truly don't get it.  But fantastic, he's a pretty good rebounder actually.

He was surrounded by a lot of talent last year and was still mediocre. He's the least of our problems this season, but another concerning tick in the development category.

[HutchwasClutch]

I don't really have a problem with Ben. He's just not good enough to be the second option on a contending team. If there was more talent around him, like last year, he can be effective in a more limited role.

I'm overly critical of Norman too according to you.  You don't have a problem with Ben.  I think you scolded someone yesterday for being too harsh on Hamilton.  "It's Caedin". I believe you said. 

So whose performance are you actually bothered by then?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I'm overly critical of Norman too according to you.  You don't have a problem with Ben.  I think you scolded someone yesterday for being too harsh on Hamilton.  "It's Caedin". I believe you said. 

So whose performance are you actually bothered by then?

He was commenting on an incorrect spelling of Caedin's name.

[HutchwasClutch]

He was surrounded by a lot of talent last year and was still mediocre. He's the least of our problems this season, but another concerning tick in the development category.

No, a senior who stinks is not "the least of our problems"!  RGV is not supposed to be seniors who are lousy.  I'm not blaming Gold alone either. Many, many issues have contributed to this mess so far. Gold is at least in the top 5. He's improved a little overall, but not nearly enough for what this team needs from him.

[The Sultan]

I'm overly critical of Norman too according to you.  You don't have a problem with Ben.  I think you scolded someone yesterday for being too harsh on Hamilton.  "It's Caedin". I believe you said. 

So whose performance are you actually bothered by then?

I was certainly not criticizing people harshing on Caedin. At best he should be playing 5-8 minutes as a back up. You just gotta spell his name right.

Tre is also fine in his extremely limited role. Seems like a good teammate, so having someone like that on your roster is OK. In fact, in terms of win shares per 40, Tre and Ben are tied with Nigel for second place. Which means when they play, they are largely effective relative to their playing time.

I have more problems with guys who are being given large roles and underperforming.

Zaide is third in minutes played, and eigth in WS per 40. (Excluding a walk-on)
Royce is fifth and 9th respectively.
Caedin is sixth and 10th.

This is where the problems are. Big minute guys who just aren't performing. Ben and Tre? You can carve out roles for them where they can be fine. But you can't surround them with these guys.

And then there's Owens and Jones - even uglier.

[The Sultan]

Anyway, what I would do is continue to start Stevens and James. Both are developing really well.  I would also carve out a larger role for Clark. If your defense is going to be bad, at least you have a rim defender back there.

But outside of that, this team just doesn't have the talent to compete.  And nothing is going to change that this year.

[panda]

No, a senior who stinks is not "the least of our problems"!  RGV is not supposed to be seniors who are lousy.  I'm not blaming Gold alone either. Many, many issues have contributed to this mess so far. Gold is at least in the top 5. He's improved a little overall, but not nearly enough for what this team needs from him.

The Caedin Hamilton Josh Clark experiment is far worse. The rotations are horrible. Gold can be on the court and not completely embarrass himself. That can't be said about many others on this team.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I don't really have a problem with Ben. He's just not good enough to be the second option on a contending team. If there was more talent around him, like last year, he can be effective in a more limited role.

^This. Ben is serviceable, but if you are counting on him to be your lead dog you're in trouble.

Likewise, Chase would be a great 6th man off the bench. Exceptional athleticism and heart, but also not cut out to be the alpha on a good team.

Zaide...he has the athleticism and basketball ability to be a great 3rd option, but he needs a WHOLE lot more intensity. 50% of Oso/Stevie/Tyler would be a good start.

Royce would be a good 8th-10th guy in the rotation on a good team; unfortunately, we need him to start on this one.

Sean is not a BE starter, or anything more than a 5-8 minute spark off the bench. He is, however, light years ahead of Tre. DO...what happened to that guy???? Hamilton is a low major player thrust into a role he has no business being in.

Freshmen have been great for Freshmen. Hopefully the incoming class has another couple of BE-quality starters, but Shaka needs to find some help on the interior through the portal next year.

[Newsdreams]

As one of our two seniors, he scored 3 on 1-7 shooting and 0-3 from 3.  We lost by a point.  Many open looks.  So yeah, FOH.

Why don't you answer Markusquette what only you're seeing in Gold and how he's been "great in a lot of ways"

LOL none of that is how it works. You need to dig deeper.... and use real stats

[Newsdreams]

What are the many ways he's been great? Genuinely curious. Maybe I've missed something. He improved his rebounding numbers.

Overall his trajectory has been disappointing. He's a serviceable bench big man at best for a potential contender. The bigger issue is the sorry state of the other guys up front.

He is in a completely different role this year and he is doing the work he is asked to do at a decent rate

[Newsdreams]

What a load of crap for a player shooting the worst he's shot since freshman year.  But increased usage explains that, right? Or just maybe, he simply isn't good enough for increased usage. 

His EFG is always going to look better because he makes quite a bit more 3's than two point FG. 

Even advanced stats can't tell nearly the whole story. If they did, why would we need to bother to watch the games to provide commentary. 

Enjoy being probably last person here defending his performance.  #Skol

This is funny

[Markusquette]

He is in a completely different role this year and he is doing the work he is asked to do at a decent rate

Decent is not great. Aside from Hamilton at the 5, Ben's role is not "completely" different. Not even trying to hate on Gold. If Ben's best is decent, the issue is not that, it's that most of his counterparts are simply not good.

[Newsdreams]

Decent is not great. Aside from Hamilton at the 5, Ben's role is not "completely" different. Not even trying to hate on Gold. If Ben's best is decent, the issue is not that, it's that most of his counterparts are simply not good.

His role besides shooting from outside is very different this year.

[Markusquette]

His role besides shooting from outside is very different this year.

Please elaborate

[Newsdreams]

Please elaborate

On D they're having him double the ball up top, taking on Oso type role. He is being used as a big crashing boards and banging down below with other bigs. They're also encouraging him to drive more to the basket. He wasn't doing much of that last year.

[rocky_warrior]

They're also encouraging him to drive more to the basket. He wasn't doing much of that last year.

That is encouraging. Though results have been mixed.

[Newsdreams]

That is encouraging. Though results have been mixed.

Yes, I know. But, Shaka did say as much that they wanted him driving to the basket more. Not saying is right or wrong but is different from what he was doing last year.

[rocky_warrior]

Yes, I know. But, Shaka did say as much that they wanted him driving to the basket more. Not saying is right or wrong but is different from what he was doing last year.

No I think it's good. But I also think he should spend more time in the paint on offense & defense.

Near the basket Ben is a bucket getter.  We need more of that

[Small Orange Soda]

Ultimately, the buck stops at Shaka's feet.

But is this what the staff expected from Gold, Norman, Hamilton, Owens and others? We can say some guys have improved, but have they improved enough? If Gold is fine doing what he's doing as a supporting player, then who's failing to become a star? As a senior, I think it's fair to say Gold hasn't lived up to what we'd hoped he'd be. And yes, that's on the staff for counting on him to become something he can't be, but it's not unfair to be disappointed either.

[Newsdreams]

No I think it's good. But I also think he should spend more time in the paint on offense & defense.

Near the basket Ben is a bucket getter.  We need more of that

I understand Rocky, but that near the basket is not a role he ever played, basically new to him. He was molded on the big European outside shooter. Not saying he was / is elite but that is how was used before MU.

[rocky_warrior]

I understand Rocky, but that near the basket is not a role he ever played, basically new to him. He was molded on the big European outside shooter. Not saying he was / is elite but that is how was used before MU.

Change is required in life

[Newsdreams]

Change is required in life

Yes, specially when over 60 

[rocky_warrior]

Yes, specially when over 60 

I'll let you know in another decade or so 

[Markusquette]

On D they're having him double the ball up top, taking on Oso type role. He is being used as a big crashing boards and banging down below with other bigs. They're also encouraging him to drive more to the basket. He wasn't doing much of that last year.

I'd say BG is largely the same player and still not very physical at all. I wish they'd pull him closer to the hoop on both ends of the court. He has height and athleticism to disrupt shots. He's only blocked one shot in the last 7 games I think.

His role is largely the same on offense. He still shoots over 60% of his shots from deep, and not well right now. Always felt like Ben has shown a few flashes of his quickness getting to the hoop since his freshman year, but it really hasn't materialized much. Again, not trying to crap on him too much because the team as a whole is the primary issue.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Ben has taken steps forward in each of his first three years--the thing is, they've been *small* steps, not the Oso/Tyler/Kam-sized improvements we've perhaps been spoiled with and come to expect.

Just wish he could have improved the flatness of his 3P shots.

[Pakuni]

I understand Rocky, but that near the basket is not a role he ever played, basically new to him. He was molded on the big European outside shooter. Not saying he was / is elite but that is how was used before MU.

But the big European outside shooter, at least the ones who are any good, also have a postup game in their arsenal. Ben either has been unable to develop that, or has no interest in developing that.

I find it hard to believe that the kid who would have been the tallest player on the court 95% of the time in youth leagues never played near the hoop. You think his U14 coach was like, "I know you're four inches taller than anyone else out here, but hang out by the arc at all times."

[Newsdreams]

But the big European outside shooter, at least the ones who are any good, also have a postup game in their arsenal. Ben either has been unable to develop that, or has no interest in developing that.

I find it hard to believe that the kid who would have been the tallest player on the court 95% of the time in youth leagues never played near the hoop. You think his U14 coach was like, "I know you're four inches taller than anyone else out here, but hang out by the arc at all times."

That is how he was played, as an outside shooter. What the other players on the roster in that developmental NBA team height's was I have no idea. And although he doesn't play meaningful minutes he has played for the senior New Zealand national team in FIBA qualifiers. I do know they did have him play some below the rim, I watched a couple of games. Unfortunately he isn't a strong banging type player down below.

[Pakuni]

That is how he was played, as an outside shooter. What the other players on the roster in that developmental NBA team height's was I have no idea. And although he doesn't play meaningful minutes he has played for the senior New Zealand national team in FIBA qualifiers. I do know they did have him play some below the rim, I watched a couple of games. Unfortunately he isn't a strong banging type player down below.

He spent less than two years in the NBA academy. That wasn't the entirety of his basketball career prior to coming to Marquette. He played for schools and the New Zealand national team programs for years before that.

[Markusquette]

Ben has taken steps forward in each of his first three years--the thing is, they've been *small* steps, not the Oso/Tyler/Kam-sized improvements we've perhaps been spoiled with and come to expect.

Just wish he could have improved the flatness of his 3P shots.

Agreed. If he's going to be solely a 3pt shooter, you'd think he wouldn't have such a flat shot.

[Newsdreams]

He spent less than two years in the NBA academy. That wasn't the entirety of his basketball career prior to coming to Marquette. He played for schools and the New Zealand national team programs for years before that.

How he was used prior to NBA academy would be speculative on my part. But international development of players is very different from what is done in US. All I've seen is NBA academy and senior New Zealand team.

[brewcity77]

Chase getting a C is ridiculous. He's the only reason this team has been competitive in the close losses we've had. Chase's efforts this year are close to on par with Kam last year just because he has so much less around him to work with.

[BM1090]

Chase getting a C is ridiculous. He's the only reason this team has been competitive in the close losses we've had. Chase's efforts this year are close to on par with Kam last year just because he has so much less around him to work with.

Yeah, his defense has been a lot worse. But I assume that's mostly because of the necessary increase in his offensive role.

[Mu8891]

Right.

I'm not going to blame this debacle on Ross.  In fact, about now he's probably thinking he should have ditched the
RGV for WINS ...

He's surrounded by an awful roster. 

[Viper]

Not sure how to grade this team. Maryland should have been a W. Oklahoma too. Wisconsin isn't an asss kicking if we hit some shots. I mean, could you shoot any worse?? Thus, 7 wins right now isn't far fetched. Alas, as a team we are a C-/D+ Individually, Chase is a B (Wisconsin game not withstanding). James a B-. Rest of team C- or worse. Coaching, D. Apparently Shaka flunked classes on talent assessment, although I do like Stevens and Phillips, and what I'm hearing about the RS's and incoming. Let's hope Shaka passed the TJ Otzelberger class on roster development, and '26/27 will be better.

[PointWarrior]

what's his layup percentage made?

No I think it's good. But I also think he should spend more time in the paint on offense & defense.

Near the basket Ben is a bucket getter.  We need more of that