What would make you show Shaka the door in March?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

You keep saying this and it's simply idiotic. WE WERE RANKED IN THE TOP 10 TO START MARCH IN YEAR 5!!!

Stop acting like it was unreasonable to support the coach of a top-10 team.

We were ranked in the top 5 last season.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The current players might like Shaka but have heard some former players are upset with Shaka.

Care to share more?

[MU82]

The current players might like Shaka but have heard some former players are upset with Shaka.

Without names and reasons, as well as something to vouch for the credibility of the source, this sounds questionable at best.

[Small Orange Soda]

Without names and reasons, as well as something to vouch for the credibility of the source, this sounds questionable at best.

Former players are fans too.

[Zog from Margo]

I'm not off the rails. The simple reality is Shaka has built his program around RGV and it is clearly a failed model, and he can't retool the roster the way it needs to be retooled without betraying everything he's said the last 4 years. I take him at his word, which means either he compromises his morals and promises to players, he doesn't compromise and we continue to suck, or he leaves.

I don't think he'll do the first option, I don't think the second is acceptable, which leaves only the third. It's not that he's not capable, it's that he's painted himself into a corner and can't stay at Marquette and quickly turn this around without betraying all the trust he's built up.

And no, we didn't pursue Owen Freeman or any other transfers. We haven't seriously pursued a D1 transfer in years.

I think "betraying trust" is an overstatement. Ben Steele said in his article that he expects a couple of players to transfer after the season and Shaka has not said he would never use the portal. Shaka has given the guys he recruited every chance in the world to succeed. He's already favored them over players in the portal. So giving them years to show what they have before telling them they won't be playing in the future at MU is not betraying any trust IMO.

[Viper]

We were ranked in the top 5 last season.

preseason #18. Made it to # 5 early December . Still top 10 early January. Overrated, but no one is complaining! Started to slide from there...#25 heading into the BET. Unranked the week after. 1st rd ncaa exit. You know the rest. 

[MuggsyB]

I think "betraying trust" is an overstatement. Ben Steele said in his article that he expects a couple of players to transfer after the season and Shaka has not said he would never use the portal. Shaka has given the guys he recruited every chance in the world to succeed. He's already favored them over players in the portal. So giving them years to show what they have before telling them they won't be playing in the future at MU is not betraying any trust IMO.

100% correct.  Especially in this climate.  It's time to get some freaking ballers with an array or skills and weapons at their disposal. 

[jesmu84]

The current players might like Shaka but have heard some former players are upset with Shaka.

Source?

[wadesworld]

Source?

Somebody whispered it in his ear. Just like somebody whispered that Nolan's dream school was MU but we don't have the money for him and that Nolan's family says that MU needs more than just Nolan.

[BM1090]

Well the good news is for a measured guy like you (who apparently isn't off the rails) and who formerly preached patience, and gave Wojo 5 years - Shaka will have 5 years to show that he's getting things on the right "trajectory."  He, far more than a guy like Wojo, should get 5 years, since he's already accomplished a crap ton at MU in his first 4 years.

So, lets call this Year 1 of Wojo, essentially.  To argue Shaka has to fix it in one year is silly - much like you, TAMU and other Projos suggested needing to give Wojo time to improve versus firing him after 1 or 2 years - and he didn't even have any skins on the wall for credentials of a Final Four, Sweet 16, 4 straight NCAAs at MU out of the gate before tailing off.

Look. Shaka has accomplished infinitely more than Wojo. He's a better coach. He's a better developer of talent. I prefer him as a representative of the university. I relate to him a lot more.

But we're staring at a year that would be significantly worse than Wojo's first two years. We might be the worst power conference team in the nation this year. If he has another one next year, he should be fired. If they improve a lot next year and but are still bad, I'd give him another year to show he's back on track. But this is an insanely bad team. And he's responsible for it.

I like Shaka a lot and hope he's here a long time, but he needs to do better than whatever the hell this is.

[MU82]

I think "betraying trust" is an overstatement. Ben Steele said in his article that he expects a couple of players to transfer after the season and Shaka has not said he would never use the portal. Shaka has given the guys he recruited every chance in the world to succeed. He's already favored them over players in the portal. So giving them years to show what they have before telling them they won't be playing in the future at MU is not betraying any trust IMO.

Outstanding post.

Shaka is great at talking to people, and he's a very persuasive gentleman.

I truly believe he would be able to convince the majority of folks who matter (current players and their parents, and recruits and their parents) that RGV is still a thing at MU ... even if some current players are "encouraged" to leave, and even if the portal is used the way programs such as Purdue, Gonzaga and MSU do.

I hope Shaka does that and I think he will, but obviously none of us know what he actually will do after this season.

[Elonsmusk]

Look. Shaka has accomplished infinitely more than Wojo. He's a better coach. He's a better developer of talent. I prefer him as a representative of the university. I relate to him a lot more.

But we're staring at a year that would be significantly worse than Wojo's first two years. We might be the worst power conference team in the nation this year. If he has another one next year, he should be fired. If they improve a lot next year and but are still bad, I'd give him another year to show he's back on track. But this is an insanely bad team. And he's responsible for it.

I like Shaka a lot and hope he's here a long time, but he needs to do better than whatever the hell this is.

I'm astounded some people can't comprehend the context with which I wrote my post suggesting Shaka should have 5 years to get us back on the right "trajectory"  I just found it ironic that the Scooper who preached patience with Wojo (Brewcity77) for 5 years, when Wojo had accomplished ZERO at MU or elsehwere as a Head Coach - is flat out pissed off and thinks Shaka should have a warm seat for his first bad season at MU, AFTER doing a very good job at MU the first 4 years.  Get it?

I don't think it will take Shaka 5 years to turn it around, but for you or other Scoopers who thought my post suggesting he should get 5 years was crazy - then those same Scoopers sure AF had a weird double and different standard for Wojo..who hadn't done squat at MU and preached patience for 5 years.

If Shaka chooses to stay at MU he will get things turned around within a couple of years max.  But, I wouldn't blame him for leaving for a Power 4 job at a school with better donor base.  The way our fanbase has turned on him astounds me after what he's accomplished here having come into a program that hadn't won a tournament game in 10 years.

[jesmu84]

Somebody whispered it in his ear. Just like somebody whispered that Nolan's dream school was MU but we don't have the money for him and that Nolan's family says that MU needs more than just Nolan.

To be fair, he was fooled by a twitter account

[brewcity77]

I think "betraying trust" is an overstatement. Ben Steele said in his article that he expects a couple of players to transfer after the season and Shaka has not said he would never use the portal. Shaka has given the guys he recruited every chance in the world to succeed. He's already favored them over players in the portal. So giving them years to show what they have before telling them they won't be playing in the future at MU is not betraying any trust IMO.

Has Shaka said word for word "I'll never use the portal."? No. But all this is fantasy talk.

Go back and read the Marquette Magazine article. The Athletic puff piece. Or pretty much any article about Marquette and the portal where Shaka is quoted the last 3 years.

Public comments about prioritizing guys who've worn the jersey, about not recruiting over guys with the portal, about the NBA being the only place guys leave Marquette early for, all this has made it clear that Shaka has told all these guys he'll stand by them and RGV. I mean, he overhauled the Spirit Shop and website with RGV gear. Does anyone really believe he isn't telling recruits the stuff he's telling the New York Times?

[WhiteTrash]

I'm astounded some people can't comprehend the context with which I wrote my post suggesting Shaka should have 5 years to get us back on the right "trajectory"  I just found it ironic that the Scooper who preached patience with Wojo (Brewcity77) for 5 years, when Wojo had accomplished ZERO at MU or elsehwere as a Head Coach - is flat out pissed off and thinks Shaka should have a warm seat for his first bad season at MU, AFTER doing a very good job at MU the first 4 years.  Get it?

I don't think it will take Shaka 5 years to turn it around, but for you or other Scoopers who thought my post suggesting he should get 5 years was crazy - then those same Scoopers sure AF had a weird double and different standard for Wojo..who hadn't done squat at MU and preached patience for 5 years.

If Shaka chooses to stay at MU he will get things turned around within a couple of years max.  But, I wouldn't blame him for leaving for a Power 4 job at a school with better donor base.  The way our fanbase has turned on him astounds me after what he's accomplished here having come into a program that hadn't won a tournament game in 10 years.

You think you have your finger on the pulse of the MU fanbase,.............you don't.

[Shooter McGavin]

I'm astounded some people can't comprehend the context with which I wrote my post suggesting Shaka should have 5 years to get us back on the right "trajectory"  I just found it ironic that the Scooper who preached patience with Wojo (Brewcity77) for 5 years, when Wojo had accomplished ZERO at MU or elsehwere as a Head Coach - is flat out pissed off and thinks Shaka should have a warm seat for his first bad season at MU, AFTER doing a very good job at MU the first 4 years.  Get it?

I don't think it will take Shaka 5 years to turn it around, but for you or other Scoopers who thought my post suggesting he should get 5 years was crazy - then those same Scoopers sure AF had a weird double and different standard for Wojo..who hadn't done squat at MU and preached patience for 5 years.

If Shaka chooses to stay at MU he will get things turned around within a couple of years max.  But, I wouldn't blame him for leaving for a Power 4 job at a school with better donor base.  The way our fanbase has turned on him astounds me after what he's accomplished here having come into a program that hadn't won a tournament game in 10 years.

Has the fanbase really turned on him?  This is a message board with a very small percentage of MU fans on it.  And the vast majority say they want Shaka to stay while also saying this years results are unacceptable.  Have you polled the fanbase?

This is a completely natural reaction to this level of losing.  I'm sure Shaka, if he actually is aware of scoop and other fan boards, understands the dismay of the fanbase.  I'm sure he is also disappointed things have gone so poorly with his recruiting over the last four years. 

Overall, I guess I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say you wouldn't be surprised if he left because of how fast the fanbase has turned on him.  The fanbase expects better and they should.  Whether you want it to be or not it is a very proud program, with a very proud fanbase.  I'm sure Shaka takes pride in that fact and takes it very seriously.  I'm pretty sure if he could address the fan base directly he would take responsibility and promise to get this fixed ASAP.

Now if your assumption is right that he failed to get recruits based on lack of funding I get your point.  If I were him, I'd leave for a P4 program too,  However, I'm not sure that you are correct on that point.

[Mu8891]

Elon - You think that Shaka will get
" a couple of years " to turn it around after this ( soon to be ) 20 loss season?? lol

So, they will be " better " by spring of 2028 ?

Prez Kimo is clueless. And Broeker has been a career No. 2 guy for a reason, but if this goes on thru next year, the real donors will crush them, the Fiserv will be a ghost town, and the BOT will have to go into witness protection.  They would be absolutely forced to can him if next year is a similar debacle.

[WhiteTrash]

Elon - You think that Shaka will get
" a couple of years " to turn it around after this ( soon to be ) 20 loss season?? lol

So, they will be " better " by spring of 2028 ?

Prez Kimo is clueless. And Broeker has been a career No. 2 guy for a reason, but if this goes on thru next year, the real donors will crush them, the Fiserv will be a ghost town, and the BOT will have to go into witness protection.  They would be absolutely forced to can him if next year is a similar debacle.

It takes a special kind of arrogance to think any one person is bigger than the program and university.

[MU82]

After he leaves MU, Shaka will go to a top hoops school with a patient fanbase that doesn't mind 20-loss seasons. A chill, content fanbase such as Kentucky, UNC or Kansas, perhaps.

[Zog from Margo]

Has Shaka said word for word "I'll never use the portal."? No. But all this is fantasy talk.

Go back and read the Marquette Magazine article. The Athletic puff piece. Or pretty much any article about Marquette and the portal where Shaka is quoted the last 3 years.

Public comments about prioritizing guys who've worn the jersey, about not recruiting over guys with the portal, about the NBA being the only place guys leave Marquette early for, all this has made it clear that Shaka has told all these guys he'll stand by them and RGV. I mean, he overhauled the Spirit Shop and website with RGV gear. Does anyone really believe he isn't telling recruits the stuff he's telling the New York Times?

He's done all of that already. He's given his recruits what he promised: a CHANCE to grow and preference over transfers. That doesn't mean they are guaranteed minutes or guaranteed spots in the rotation. Good Lord, can Lowery and Norman actually say they weren't given the full opportunity to grow and secure starting spots? There's nothing in "RGV" that guarantees minutes. Can you actually argue that Shaka's recruits haven't had more of an opportunity to succeed coming in as frosh than the vast majority of programs would provide? Do you think any recruit comes into a program thinking they'll continue to start and play major minutes if the program is going down the crapper? If recruits don't grow, Shaka has no need to apologize for letting them know that's the case. Shaka made some serious recruiting mistakes.  He will not be selling his soul if he tells players they will not get PT at MU in the future if that's an honest assessment.

[Elonsmusk]

After he leaves MU, Shaka will go to a top hoops school with a patient fanbase that doesn't mind 20-loss seasons. A chill, content fanbase such as Kentucky, UNC or Kansas, perhaps.

Yep, no doubt MU fans should have the same expectations as those fans at Kentucky, UNC, or Kansas. 

It takes a special kind of arrogance to think any one person is bigger than the program and university.

So you think at non-blueblood schools like MU, that "the program and university" are what make it a winner, and NOT who the head coach of the university and program are?  Why could Buzz Williams turnaround a Virginia Tech program that was floundering?  Why is St. John's good again? Why couldn't Wojo win an NCAA tournament game in 7 years at MU?

This isn't about arrogance, its about leverage.  Both parties, in the case of MU, have leverage due to MU generally spending a lot on basketball, and having a large fanbase - and Shaka has the leverage of MU struggling as a program for 10 years prior to his arrival.

My view is simply that Shaka has more leverage.  Should MU can him if he has another bad season next year, I suspect there is more downside risk on the MU side of not getting a better coach.

[wadesworld]

He's done all of that already. He's given his recruits what he promised: a CHANCE to grow and preference over transfers. That doesn't mean they are guaranteed minutes or guaranteed spots in the rotation. Good Lord, can Lowery and Norman actually say they weren't given the full opportunity to grow and secure starting spots? There's nothing in "RGV" that guarantees minutes. Can you actually argue that Shaka's recruits haven't had more of an opportunity to succeed coming in as frosh than the vast majority of programs would provide? Do you think any recruit comes into a program thinking they'll continue to start and play major minutes if the program is going down the crapper? If recruits don't grow, Shaka has no need to apologize for letting them know that's the case. Shaka made some serious recruiting mistakes.  He will not be selling his soul if he tells players they will not get PT at MU in the future if that's an honest assessment.

Correct. The moral conclusions people have drawn about Shaka because poor on court basketball results is hilarious. Suddenly he's a fraud who goes against everything he's ever said if he pivots his strategy? He's ignorant and has too big of an ego to ever adjust or listen to advice?

And no, I don't have any idea what Shaka is telling his players, their families, potential recruits, etc. behind closed doors. Nor do I think what Shaka says at the podium to the world is what the locker room message is.

Some people take basketball results way too personally.

[Pakuni]

Yep, no doubt MU fans should have the same expectations as those fans at Kentucky, UNC, or Kansas.   

Not producing the worst season in four decades = same expectations as Kentucky?
Hmmm.

So you think at non-blueblood schools like MU, that "the program and university" are what make it a winner, and NOT who the head coach of the university and program are?  Why could Buzz Williams turnaround a Virginia Tech program that was floundering?  Why is St. John's good again? Why couldn't Wojo win an NCAA tournament game in 7 years at MU?


This isn't about arrogance, its about leverage.  Both parties, in the case of MU, have leverage due to MU generally spending a lot on basketball, and having a large fanbase - and Shaka has the leverage of MU struggling as a program for 10 years prior to his arrival.

My view is simply that Shaka has more leverage.  Should MU can him if he has another bad season next year, I suspect there is more downside risk on the MU side of not getting a better coach.

You're conflating the necessity of making good hires with your stance that Marquette would be set adrift in the college basketball wasteland without Shaka.

Of course programs need to make good hires. That's true everywhere, even the bluebloods (see: UNC and Matt Doherty; UCLA and Steve Lavin; Kentucky and Billy Gillespie).
But if Shaka were to leave, Marquette could find another coach to successfully run the program. He's not uniquely gifted. I know this to be true because Marquette has had coaches successfully run the program before Shaka.

Yes, St. John's is better today because Pitino is a better coach than guys who'd never been head coaches before (Chris Mullin, Norm Roberts) and guys who washed out elsewhere (Steve Lavin, Mike Anderson). Those were bad hires. When they made a better hire (Mike Jarvis) they fared much better and produced similar results to what Pitino is producing now (four tourneys in six years, two seasons ranked in top 10 at the end of the year, and a BE championship).

And do you honestly believe a coach who produces back-to-back losing seasons, including at least one historically bad losing season, has leverage? Is Shaka waling into Broeker's office and saying, "I dare you to find another coach who can finish at the bottom of the Big East two years running!"

[Hards Alumni]

Nobody said it would take that level of a job. The rumor posted on discord was Pitt.

Shaka would be a good fit at several schools still. He could say he's willing to change, but also still be ideal for a school with less investment, that needs to abide by a more Shaka-esque approach.

The issue at play today, is not that Shaka is terrible with X's and O's. It's that he leveraged everything on an unorthodox approach that could set us back 3 years, when that never had to be the case. He chose this.

And I know people will respond by saying, why not here? I'd simply say, he'd rather have job security, rather than have to interview on 2 consecutive losing seasons, after being fired.

It's always been about dominating the PR for Shaka. That's not going to change.

In the current landscape no team is set back three years.  Not ever.

[panda]

In the current landscape no team is set back three years.  Not ever.

Not taking transfers would be one way.