What would make you show Shaka the door in March?

[Galway Eagle]

And the second that conversation starts, as soon as Shaka says those words, he has undermined his credibility with the player, the rest of the roster, and future recruits. These people aren't stupid. They know that "amazing opportunities for you elsewhere" is just touchy-feely talk for "we're running your ass off for someone better" and that's effectively what Shaka has said for years now he isn't going to do.

He's painted himself into a corner on this. If he's going to relocate current players in order to win games, he's undermining the integrity with which he built the program. He can't have his cake and eat it too.

While this could be true it's not the only outcome. I can't imagine Tre, as a senior. Wants to only play a couple min a game. Shakas said he won't purposely recruit over his guys but if one isn't panning out with development and he's frank about it then he isn't going back on his word.

[tower912]

The fans part includes you.  I'm not saying you are wrong for staying away from scoop, but your are not immune from this.  Your absence speaks volumes.  I like that you put fans in there but only if you include yourself.

Fair. 

[1SE]

It seems as though Shaka has already changed his style of recruits.  Walker is supposed to be a shooter and Egbuonu seems big east ready.  How can a kid who's name starts woit EGB  not be a hit. With Pearson coming on board  I'd say he is recruiting for need.  Give Shaka some slack.  If you wanted to go to the portal fore next season  what would you look for?

Right - I also like the upcoming class - but this board was also excited about the junior class, and the sophomore class... the "there's always the guys coming in next year" was prime projo content. And when those guys come in and don't perform right away (because 4-start frosh usually aren't saviors) then it's the "we're young" excuse - then they still don't get better and you get our sophmore and junior classes.

What really shakes my confidence is that we're coming on a full 365 days where we've been playing significantly below our potential and significantly worse than the sum of our parts.

What really impressed me in the first 3.5 Shaka years was that his teams seemed to produce more than the sum of their parts. But looking back on that, maybe even that is a bit rose-tinged. Maybe the first 3 years of success had more to do with the fact that we had one of MUs all-time best PGs.

Is there anyone on this roster with f'em attitude?

 

[tower912]

Shaka referenced in his show that he wants that, also, and is trying to get it from them.

[willie warrior]

Right - I also like the upcoming class - but this board was also excited about the junior class, and the sophomore class... the "there's always the guys coming in next year" was prime projo content. And when those guys come in and don't perform right away (because 4-start frosh usually aren't saviors) then it's the "we're young" excuse - then they still don't get better and you get our sophmore and junior classes.

What really shakes my confidence is that we're coming on a full 365 days where we've been playing significantly below our potential and significantly worse than the sum of our parts.

What really impressed me in the first 3.5 Shaka years was that his teams seemed to produce more than the sum of their parts. But looking back on that, maybe even that is a bit rose-tinged. Maybe the first 3 years of success had more to do with the fact that we had one of MUs all-time best PGs.

Is there anyone on this roster with f'em attitude?

 

Yeah. The cliche proverb "There is always next year"

[tower912]

Says nearly every fan in every sport. 

[Pakuni]

While this could be true it's not the only outcome. I can't imagine Tre, as a senior. Wants to only play a couple min a game. Shakas said he won't purposely recruit over his guys but if one isn't panning out with development and he's frank about it then he isn't going back on his word.

Regardless of how Shaka approaches it, what's the incentive for a player like Tre to leave for "other opportunities?" If MU's NIL structure is as has been reported, he's going to be doing well as a senior here ... likely much better than he would if he stepped down a level or two for more playing time. As a player who's probably going to have limited professional opportunities, why would he walk away from guaranteed money at a place where he's comfortable and has all his friends, for less money at a lesser program, with lesser facilities, worse resources and where he knows nobody?

[MU82]

Regardless of how Shaka approaches it, what's the incentive for a player like Tre to leave for "other opportunities?" If MU's NIL structure is as has been reported, he's going to be doing well as a senior here ... likely much better than he would if he stepped down a level or two for more playing time. As a player who's probably going to have limited professional opportunities, why would he walk away from guaranteed money at a place where he's comfortable and has all his friends, for less money at a lesser program, with lesser facilities, worse resources and where he knows nobody?

Legit questions, and it will be interesting to see how Shaka handles it if he decides he needs to "gently encourage" any players to leave.

[Shaka Shart]

Converting to Islam

[hawk]

I can agree that this team is less than the sum of it's parts and what is lacking is the f'em attitude and talent of Kolek.  I can also agree that there is little insentive for Norman or Lowery to leave the program.  Shaka might want both to stay just for ballist.  They have not become the players anybody thought they would but they  remain an asset in supporting roles.  Looking at next season's likely roster I like most of what I see.  I think they are solid at the point and have a small army of wings, including a couple of shooters and Egbuono who looks like an f'em poster child.  I also think that James and Stevens have that edge.  My issue with Shakas's teams has been and remains the lack of a beast in the post.  Denny Crumm always had a point guard and a tough center with an army of wings, Shaka's teams look the same way sans a beast in the post.I think Owens leaves for greener pastures after this season so Shaka will one open seat at the table.  I would hope and expect that he would find a senior or graduate post player to stabiliize the lack of post presence.

[brewcity77]

Opportunity for learning and growth.  It is fascinating to see how coaches, players, and fans handle adversity.

My view of this is the same as my past views on Wojo and Elizabeth Warren.

With Wojo, I supported the general upward trajectory until February 2019, when we had a third year where we peaked early then had a calamitous losing stretch. It wasn't feasible to fire him after a 5-seed or in the midst of COVID, but they pulled the trigger at the right time.

Why Elizabeth Warren? I'm not being political, it was just math. She was my preferred 2020 candidate, but when Super Tuesday knocked her out, I migrated to Biden even though Bernie was the more ideologically reflective candidate. But doing the math, I realized there was no path to the nomination, so I supported the only guy that could get it.

And that's where I am with Shaka. I'll support him as long as he's here. I still would love for his method to work. But we have more than a year showing it's flawed. He rode a fantastic initial recruiting class to historic results, but what do we have since then? He hit on just one recruit (Chase) in the 2022, 2023, and 2024 recruiting classes. Some of the guys (Ben, Zaide, Royce) have had moments of okay, but it's pretty clear none are the next level players TK, Oso, O-Max, and Kam were, and not even on par with Stevie/Jop who were solid collegians.

With RGV, there is no way for Shaka to stick to the principles he's espoused and create the kind of roster he needs to get back to that level by next year. I just don't see the plausible path. If he betrays his moral stance, runs guys off & goes to the portal, I'll hope he wins in spite of it. If he sticks by RGV and proves me wrong, I'll happily eat that crow.

But as I look at this team, the talent simply isn't here. The staff misevaluated & I was wrong to believe in this team. And without significant roster overhaul (3-4 scholarships) I don't see a path to a 2026-27 turnaround. So I'm basically at the same place with Shaka that I was with Wojo in February 2019. He's going to get time to turn it around, and I'll cheer for him to do so, but I don't believe it is possible and think change is inevitable in the next 4-16 months.

[Elonsmusk]

My view of this is the same as my past views on Wojo and Elizabeth Warren.

With Wojo, I supported the general upward trajectory until February 2019, when we had a third year where we peaked early then had a calamitous losing stretch. It wasn't feasible to fire him after a 5-seed or in the midst of COVID, but they pulled the trigger at the right time.

Why Elizabeth Warren? I'm not being political, it was just math. She was my preferred 2020 candidate, but when Super Tuesday knocked her out, I migrated to Biden even though Bernie was the more ideologically reflective candidate. But doing the math, I realized there was no path to the nomination, so I supported the only guy that could get it.

And that's where I am with Shaka. I'll support him as long as he's here. I still would love for his method to work. But we have more than a year showing it's flawed. He rode a fantastic initial recruiting class to historic results, but what do we have since then? He hit on just one recruit (Chase) in the 2022, 2023, and 2024 recruiting classes. Some of the guys (Ben, Zaide, Royce) have had moments of okay, but it's pretty clear none are the next level players TK, Oso, O-Max, and Kam were, and not even on par with Stevie/Jop who were solid collegians.

With RGV, there is no way for Shaka to stick to the principles he's espoused and create the kind of roster he needs to get back to that level by next year. I just don't see the plausible path. If he betrays his moral stance, runs guys off & goes to the portal, I'll hope he wins in spite of it. If he sticks by RGV and proves me wrong, I'll happily eat that crow.

But as I look at this team, the talent simply isn't here. The staff misevaluated & I was wrong to believe in this team. And without significant roster overhaul (3-4 scholarships) I don't see a path to a 2026-27 turnaround. So I'm basically at the same place with Shaka that I was with Wojo in February 2019. He's going to get time to turn it around, and I'll cheer for him to do so, but I don't believe it is possible and think change is inevitable in the next 4-16]

[Elonsmusk]

My view of this is the same as my past views on Wojo and Elizabeth Warren.

With Wojo, I supported the general upward trajectory until February 2019, when we had a third year where we peaked early then had a calamitous losing stretch. It wasn't feasible to fire him after a 5-seed or in the midst of COVID, but they pulled the trigger at the right time.

Why Elizabeth Warren? I'm not being political, it was just math. She was my preferred 2020 candidate, but when Super Tuesday knocked her out, I migrated to Biden even though Bernie was the more ideologically reflective candidate. But doing the math, I realized there was no path to the nomination, so I supported the only guy that could get it.

And that's where I am with Shaka. I'll support him as long as he's here. I still would love for his method to work. But we have more than a year showing it's flawed. He rode a fantastic initial recruiting class to historic results, but what do we have since then? He hit on just one recruit (Chase) in the 2022, 2023, and 2024 recruiting classes. Some of the guys (Ben, Zaide, Royce) have had moments of okay, but it's pretty clear none are the next level players TK, Oso, O-Max, and Kam were, and not even on par with Stevie/Jop who were solid collegians.

With RGV, there is no way for Shaka to stick to the principles he's espoused and create the kind of roster he needs to get back to that level by next year. I just don't see the plausible path. If he betrays his moral stance, runs guys off & goes to the portal, I'll hope he wins in spite of it. If he sticks by RGV and proves me wrong, I'll happily eat that crow.

But as I look at this team, the talent simply isn't here. The staff misevaluated & I was wrong to believe in this team. And without significant roster overhaul (3-4 scholarships) I don't see a path to a 2026-27 turnaround. So I'm basically at the same place with Shaka that I was with Wojo in February 2019. He's going to get time to turn it around, and I'll cheer for him to do so, but I don't believe it is possible and think change is inevitable in the next 4-16 months.

Shaka has skins on the wall that Wojo didn't. You don't pull the plug on a guy with Shaka's resume after 1 or 2 seasons. "Trajectory" from awful to mediocre, to losing his best team due to team turmoil, to getting absolutely pummeled in two NCAA tournament games and then regressing to like 90th in Year 7 is no comp for Shaka. 

This current situation sucks for sure, and I didn't think it would be this bleak. Shaka and staff miscalculated the potential and improvement capability of this roster. I'm confident he will fix it. But, nothing you can do at this stage of the season.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

My view of this is the same as my past views on Wojo and Elizabeth Warren.

With Wojo, I supported the general upward trajectory until February 2019, when we had a third year where we peaked early then had a calamitous losing stretch. It wasn't feasible to fire him after a 5-seed or in the midst of COVID, but they pulled the trigger at the right time.

Why Elizabeth Warren? I'm not being political, it was just math. She was my preferred 2020 candidate, but when Super Tuesday knocked her out, I migrated to Biden even though Bernie was the more ideologically reflective candidate. But doing the math, I realized there was no path to the nomination, so I supported the only guy that could get it.

And that's where I am with Shaka. I'll support him as long as he's here. I still would love for his method to work. But we have more than a year showing it's flawed. He rode a fantastic initial recruiting class to historic results, but what do we have since then? He hit on just one recruit (Chase) in the 2022, 2023, and 2024 recruiting classes. Some of the guys (Ben, Zaide, Royce) have had moments of okay, but it's pretty clear none are the next level players TK, Oso, O-Max, and Kam were, and not even on par with Stevie/Jop who were solid collegians.

With RGV, there is no way for Shaka to stick to the principles he's espoused and create the kind of roster he needs to get back to that level by next year. I just don't see the plausible path. If he betrays his moral stance, runs guys off & goes to the portal, I'll hope he wins in spite of it. If he sticks by RGV and proves me wrong, I'll happily eat that crow.

But as I look at this team, the talent simply isn't here. The staff misevaluated & I was wrong to believe in this team. And without significant roster overhaul (3-4 scholarships) I don't see a path to a 2026-27 turnaround. So I'm basically at the same place with Shaka that I was with Wojo in February 2019. He's going to get time to turn it around, and I'll cheer for him to do so, but I don't believe it is possible and think change is inevitable in the next 4-16 months.

We agree that results matter and that Shaka has painted himself into a corner with his approach. 

However, and I said this the last time you posted something similar, applying the same standard to Shaka that you did to Wojo in regard to changing coaches makes no sense to me. 

Shaka has made the tourney 4 seasons in a row, including a conference title, a conference tourney title, 2 #2 seeds, and a Sweet 16.  Wojo didn't come remotely close to those results and he was here for 7 years. 

It also seems pretty clear that Shaka could be here long-term.  If we move on from him after next season, Marquette will likely be finding a new coach every 5-7 years for perpetuity. 

Shaka deserves some grace to get this figured out and clean up the mess he's made.  I would not move on from him after next season, either, taking everything into account.

Look, this sucks hard and as fans we are impatient, especially as we get older.  Shaka is accountable for this and absolutely needs to fix it.  But I think he should get a bit of a longer leash than I'd normally be willing to give.   

[panda]

We agree that results matter and that Shaka has painted himself into a corner with his approach. 

However, and I said this the last time you posted something similar, applying the same standard to Shaka that you did to Wojo in regard to changing coaches makes no sense to me. 

Shaka has made the tourney 4 seasons in a row, including a conference title, a conference tourney title, 2 #2 seeds, and a Sweet 16.  Wojo didn't come remotely close to those results and he was here for 7 years. 

It also seems pretty clear that Shaka could be here long-term.  If we move on from him after next season, Marquette will likely be finding a new coach every 5-7 years for perpetuity. 

Shaka deserves some grace to get this figured out and clean up the mess he's made.  I would not move on from him after next season, either, taking everything into account.

Look, this sucks hard and as fans we are impatient, especially as we get older.  Shaka is accountable for this and absolutely needs to fix it.  But I think he should get a bit of a longer leash than I'd normally be willing to give.   

A coach with his track record earns a pass for this year. I'm out with a pitchfork if he doesn't do anything to improve next years roster.

[panda]

My view of this is the same as my past views on Wojo and Elizabeth Warren.

With Wojo, I supported the general upward trajectory until February 2019, when we had a third year where we peaked early then had a calamitous losing stretch. It wasn't feasible to fire him after a 5-seed or in the midst of COVID, but they pulled the trigger at the right time.

Why Elizabeth Warren? I'm not being political, it was just math. She was my preferred 2020 candidate, but when Super Tuesday knocked her out, I migrated to Biden even though Bernie was the more ideologically reflective candidate. But doing the math, I realized there was no path to the nomination, so I supported the only guy that could get it.

And that's where I am with Shaka. I'll support him as long as he's here. I still would love for his method to work. But we have more than a year showing it's flawed. He rode a fantastic initial recruiting class to historic results, but what do we have since then? He hit on just one recruit (Chase) in the 2022, 2023, and 2024 recruiting classes. Some of the guys (Ben, Zaide, Royce) have had moments of okay, but it's pretty clear none are the next level players TK, Oso, O-Max, and Kam were, and not even on par with Stevie/Jop who were solid collegians.

With RGV, there is no way for Shaka to stick to the principles he's espoused and create the kind of roster he needs to get back to that level by next year. I just don't see the plausible path. If he betrays his moral stance, runs guys off & goes to the portal, I'll hope he wins in spite of it. If he sticks by RGV and proves me wrong, I'll happily eat that crow.

But as I look at this team, the talent simply isn't here. The staff misevaluated & I was wrong to believe in this team. And without significant roster overhaul (3-4 scholarships) I don't see a path to a 2026-27 turnaround. So I'm basically at the same place with Shaka that I was with Wojo in February 2019. He's going to get time to turn it around, and I'll cheer for him to do so, but I don't believe it is possible and think change is inevitable in the next 4-16 months.

Pocahontas and wojo. Birds of a feather !

[Vander Blue Man Group]

A coach with his track record earns a pass for this year. I'm out with a pitchfork if he doesn't do anything to improve next years roster.

I get it and I won't begrudge you that.  I think for me it would depend on what happens next year and how the young core looks.  It's not a black & white decision for me. 

[MarquetteMike1977]

Right - I also like the upcoming class - but this board was also excited about the junior class, and the sophomore class... the "there's always the guys coming in next year" was prime projo content. And when those guys come in and don't perform right away (because 4-start frosh usually aren't saviors) then it's the "we're young" excuse - then they still don't get better and you get our sophmore and junior classes.

What really shakes my confidence is that we're coming on a full 365 days where we've been playing significantly below our potential and significantly worse than the sum of our parts.

What really impressed me in the first 3.5 Shaka years was that his teams seemed to produce more than the sum of their parts. But looking back on that, maybe even that is a bit rose-tinged. Maybe the first 3 years of success had more to do with the fact that we had one of MUs all-time best PGs.

Is there anyone on this roster with f'em attitude?

 

Agree! Al used to say something like winning is important they keep score for a reason. Feel Shaka lost his way as a coach and emphasized relationships more. Which is awesome but not when it comes to coaching basketball. This is not a social club lol But that said Shaka has won much and made many NCAA Tournaments. Shaka will get it fixed and win again.

[panda]

I get it and I won't begrudge you that.  I think for me it would depend on what happens next year and how the young core looks.  It's not a black & white decision for me.

For me I see this as an issue which goes back to last year.

I hated the way the roster with those senior was put together. A complete disservice to those guys who gave so much to the program.

Hamilton, Clark and amadou had/have no business playing this level of basketball and ate up roster spots which ultimately could have helped us as we floundered the second half of the year.

This year more of the same. Roster malpractice for how little talent there is on this roster. Shaka is choosing dial up internet when fiber optic is available.

My patience is wearing thin watching this catastrophe this season and I'm completely out of there aren't wholesale changes going into next year.

[hawk]

I don't disagree with the trend in this thread but I think another part of the prpblem is that Shaka has the wrong view of offense in this day and age.  There is no center on this team, just guards and forwards.  Gold looked like a high scool kid compared to the Purdue bigs.  If there is a portal opening for MU next year he has to get a legitimate center, somebody whose legs are bigger than the necks. MU has two seven foot players for next year and together they weigh less than 450 pounds.  That not big, just tall

[GoldenEagles03]

I'd fire him after this season if he isn't willing to commit to proven players out of the portal.

He has killed the program as fast as he has turned it around. He has shut off the possibility of adding transfers and top recruits because he thinks he is above an agent assisting a player through their college careers. We are stuck in mediocrity until Shaka, or Marquette changes. Marquette should make the change if he doesn't commit to it.

His job is to make the basketball team as good as he can each season. Not develop bad players into decent players at the end of 4 full seasons.

[KingKolek]

At this point, if I'm the athletic department and he tells me he is not taking a transfer this offseason, I'm firing him. But I doubt they feel the same.

[Zog from Margo]

With freshmen starting and getting more minute, I think there are guys in the roster who will leave of their own accord. Bring in another class and those guys move further down the bench. I think Shaka will go to the portal. I think there will be some staff changes too. This isn't just a bad season. It's an epic collapse of a program.

Shaka and his staff crapped the bed with this roster. I'd wonder if he'd pull a Tony Bennett, but I don't think he'd want his college coaching career to end with this failure of a season. 

[CountryRoads]

I'd wonder if he'd pull a Tony Bennett, but I don't think he'd want his college coaching career to end with this failure of a season. 

Probably a better chance of this happening than him making any adjustments.

[HutchwasClutch]

I'd fire him after this season if he isn't willing to commit to proven players out of the portal.

He has killed the program as fast as he has turned it around. He has shut off the possibility of adding transfers and top recruits because he thinks he is above an agent assisting a player through their college careers. We are stuck in mediocrity until Shaka, or Marquette changes. Marquette should make the change if he doesn't commit to it.

His job is to make the basketball team as good as he can each season. Not develop bad players into decent players at the end of 4 full seasons.

Agree with everything, except this is not what mediocrity looks like.