C Hamilton v. Portal addition?

[Jay Bee]

Heldt was terrible

Yeah right. Try telling that to those kids who enjoyed ice cream bc of him.

[hawk]

I expect the boys to get drilled by Wisconsin and Purdue period, full stop.  I was at the Valpo game and I don't think  I've seen a worse display of bascketball than the 1st half of that game in my life which spans 7 decades.  At the same time they found a way to make the end of the game compelling viewing.  There is merit in winning a close,sloppy game like that especialy given the recent history in close games.  I think for the first time this season the boys did sort of get "lost in the fight"  and they pulled it out.  While that moight not be parade worthy it is progress.  No matter what I tnink or anyone on the board thinks or says , this team is the team so you might as well put some lipsticlk on the pig and enjoy that which is ejoyable.  I think the team has some pieces but they are not connected yet.  It might be helpful to consider that the players you are comparing these players to, were not the same players they were as sophamores and juniors.  I'm disposed to cut the boys some slack. 

Suppose Owens leaves at the end of the season, who do you take out of the pportal?  You've got two top forty players coming in next season and certainly James and Stevens will be capable starters next season . the jury is still out on Parham and Hamilton and Clark is still an unknown.  The future look pretty bright to me.  While I find the RGV stuff to be pretty pathetic  and useless I thinke Shaka has changed his attitude in recruiting already by going after players that fit the team's needs instead of recruiting players that fit his style.  I'm hoping for an NIT  bid and a way better next year and I'm more interested in the latter thatn the former.  I don't see any portal action on the horizon and certainly not for an upper classman who will move on

[Zog from Margo]

I'm pretty surprised anyone at the game saw "a lot of progress" from Caedin.


Taking a project is fine. Taking a project who hasn't developed and forcing him into the starting lineup is a problem. Building a roster that requires you to start a project who hasn't developed is also a problem. And finally, handing out limited resources to players whose upside is "decent backup" 4-5 years down the road is a problem.

I'm surprised you cannot see how much Hamilton has progressed since first arriving at MU. He's not a good player but he's a lot better than he was. Contrast that with Owens who has regressed and Parham and Lowery who are not playing any better than they did a year ago. Did you see Norman's 3 attempt last night? I actually laughed.

I'm sure you and others want Shaka to run Hamilton and Clark after the season. Look on the bright side. Maybe he will.

[BCHoopster]

So let's say they go 10-21, lose there best player, and you think you should not add a wing or a center?  Sheek is a skinny big that was not an offensive player on his team, will help for sure, but not sure he will be able to handle the physicality.  Militic and Phillips, might be good in due time but not sure neither will pan out.  You can go with James, Stevens and Zaide, but he is a complimentary player that's never been a star on any team.  Will not happen next year. Need a solid 10-15 point player.

[Jay Bee]

So let's say they go 10-21, lose there best player, and you think you should not add a wing or a center?  Sheek is a skinny big that was not an offensive player on his team, will help for sure, but not sure he will be able to handle the physicality.  Militic and Phillips, might be good in due time but not sure neither will pan out.  You can go with James, Stevens and Zaide, but he is a complimentary player that's never been a star on any team.  Will not happen next year. Need a solid 10-15 point player.

their vs. there, Miletic vs. Militic, complementary vs. complimentary, etc.

Please make it stop.

[BCHoopster]

Guess I better go back to school, not sure I will ever get the right words right, maybe it matters to you but I could care less, you can stop now!

[Captain Quette]

One question I have is, after our poor late season performance last year and Kam leaving....Shaka looks at the roster aka crap pile, that is coming back and thinks....oh, we will be fine next year, we will develop over the Summer, etc.

Don't the coaches discuss the roster strength and weaknesses.

How does shaka think we had a prayer of being good this year?

Ok, 2 questions. Shaka needs to have his brain activity measured.

[hawk]

O Captain my Captian,  I am sure that they do.  I can't speak for the staff but my guess is that they liked the incoming class especially James and Stevens.  I assume they anticipated a 10 man rotation lead by Gold, who as a senior would surely become a leader  be something like a 14 and 7 type player.  They guessed right with Ross.  They probably thougjt that Jones would stay healthy and play himself into shape.  If everybody coming back got just a little better the team would be up to the task of getting into the NCAA again and be ready to explode the next season.  I have no bones to pick with Shaka but I would given Wojo one more season.  His last year was his best coaching year in my opinion.  Post Howard he had a team that he needed to coach and not lean on talent.  I was put off by the vile anger that came with his dismissal.  Now you are disenchanted the the savior you all begged to hire.  I would ask that you consider this,  If Justin Lewis doesn't get hurt and miss 6 games in the middle of the conference season MU gets a bid and Wojo stays.  If Shaka doesn't lose a 3/14 matchup in the 1st round he doesn't get fired.  So you moved some chairs around and now you don't like the way it looks, how long until you demand a new hero?

[Johnny B]

Shaka wasn't fired but the seat was hot after that for sure

[Captain Quette]

Hawk - carpe diem and great thoughts on what the coaching might have been thinking. But almost a totally wrong analysis by the staff nonetheless. They were way off on this roster.

As to wojo, I was unhappy with him, especially his technical coaching skills but was OK giving him 1 more year. He was a good recruiter and had some good teams and never hit rock bottom like this.

Worst mu teams I can remember:
1. This year by far
2. Buzz last year
3. 1991, KOs 2nd year

[Galway Eagle]

Worst mu teams I can remember:
1. This year by far
2. Buzz last year
3. 1991, KOs 2nd year

This is ridiculous. Buzz's last year was still a bubble team with a bit to go two of Wojo's were trash

O Captain my Captian,  I am sure that they do.  I can't speak for the staff but my guess is that they liked the incoming class especially James and Stevens.  I assume they anticipated a 10 man rotation lead by Gold, who as a senior would surely become a leader  be something like a 14 and 7 type player.  They guessed right with Ross.  They probably thougjt that Jones would stay healthy and play himself into shape.  If everybody coming back got just a little better the team would be up to the task of getting into the NCAA again and be ready to explode the next season.  I have no bones to pick with Shaka but I would given Wojo one more season.  His last year was his best coaching year in my opinion.  Post Howard he had a team that he needed to coach and not lean on talent.  I was put off by the vile anger that came with his dismissal.  Now you are disenchanted the the savior you all begged to hire.  I would ask that you consider this,  If Justin Lewis doesn't get hurt and miss 6 games in the middle of the conference season MU gets a bid and Wojo stays.  If Shaka doesn't lose a 3/14 matchup in the 1st round he doesn't get fired.  So you moved some chairs around and now you don't like the way it looks, how long until you demand a new hero?

Wojo was not a good coach. Did he deserve to get axed? Arguable, pending what standard you have for MUBB but I think it's fair to say that he was given ample time to prove himself and his highlight year ended in the most epic collapse of MUBB.

But when Justin got hurt we were .500 that team wasn't making the tournament if he was around. Additionally, most looks run were for carton Koby or Garcia so I think that's an excuse for a bad team that every metric showed was in fact a bad team.

As far as how long? Two years, Shaka is entitled to a down year maybe two. I'm off the boat after two unless he tries something huge to switch things up.

[hawk]

Tough crowd but I get that.  I am less disturbed by the opinions of these posts as I am by the anger,attitude and disregard for the effort and talent of the plaers invovlved. I see no reason to asail the talent on this team as a pile of crap.  Life is simple not easy and success, however you define it is both difficult and fleeting.  I do have one question however and it is a question of balance.  Teams are allowed 15 players now instead of 13.  How can you decide in advance the better policy as a program?  If you recruited 13 players from high school every year and used two in the portal to fill gaps real or imagined or if you recruited 13 players from high school with the intention of playing them and 2 players every year to redshirt them for development, how could you tell which has the advantage until it has been a practice for at least 2 or 3 recruiting cycles?  I think it is simply too soon to pass judgement on either tactic.  I tjhink probably no coach wants 15 new players every year and over time every coach will dip into the portal somewhat.  Perhaps it is best just to wait until the waters settle over time to come into balance.  Under any circumstanmce being men and women of the Jesuit tradition maybe everyone should try to remain calm, not overreact to any one season and try to engage with the other in understanding and compassion.  If we are Marquette perhaps we should be more understanding of each other.

[rocky_warrior]

If we are Marquette perhaps we should be more understanding of each other.

hawk likes to use lots of words and tell us that he should understand us more.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Hawk - carpe diem and great thoughts on what the coaching might have been thinking. But almost a totally wrong analysis by the staff nonetheless. They were way off on this roster.

As to wojo, I was unhappy with him, especially his technical coaching skills but was OK giving him 1 more year. He was a good recruiter and had some good teams and never hit rock bottom like this.

Worst mu teams I can remember:
1. This year by far
2. Buzz last year
3. 1991, KOs 2nd year

You should hav been there as a student 1987 - 1991 during the Dukiet years.

[brewcity77]

Hawk - carpe diem and great thoughts on what the coaching might have been thinking. But almost a totally wrong analysis by the staff nonetheless. They were way off on this roster.

As to wojo, I was unhappy with him, especially his technical coaching skills but was OK giving him 1 more year. He was a good recruiter and had some good teams and never hit rock bottom like this.

Worst mu teams I can remember:
1. This year by far
2. Buzz last year
3. 1991, KOs 2nd year

Were you blackout drunk from 2014 through 2021? Because Wojo's first and last teams were definitely worse than Buzz's last year.

[The Sultan]

You should hav been there as a student 1987 - 1991 during the Dukiet years.

Wonder what Tony Candelino is up to these days...

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Wonder what Tony Candelino is up to these days...

According to a Google search, he's coaching basketball in Florida.

https://www.fieldlevel.com/app/coach-profile/anthony.candelino

[Pakuni]

I'm surprised you cannot see how much Hamilton has progressed since first arriving at MU. He's not a good player but he's a lot better than he was. Contrast that with Owens who has regressed and Parham and Lowery who are not playing any better than they did a year ago. Did you see Norman's 3 attempt last night? I actually laughed.

I'm sure Hamilton has progressed and worked hard, but this isn't summer camp or middle school house league. Improving from a 0 star recruit to a low-major college basketball player is great, but just improving is not good enough to play almost 20 minutes a night at a program with Marquette's aspirations. It's not Caedin's fault. He's been put in a no-win situation by his coaches.

As for Tre, he's not good either. But he's getting half the time, in sheltered minutes, and at least brings some defensive value to the court.

I'm sure you and others want Shaka to run Hamilton and Clark after the season. Look on the bright side. Maybe he will.

Meh. Don't really care one way or the other if they stay or go. But there's really no incentive for them to leave, if MU's NIL structure is as has been reported. Get paid for sitting on the bench at MU or get peanuts for playing time in the Big South?
I just want Shaka to recruit more based on talent than traits.

[Markusquette]

He wasn't terrible. He just wasn't a starting caliber center (which was the role he was forced into in 2017-18), but if he's your 10-15 mpg backup, he was perfectly adequate.

And to compare, any version of him from sophomore to senior year would be a 28-30 mpg starter on this team.

We're in deep crap if Matt Heldt is a 28-30mpg starter on this year's team lol. Which, you are sadly probably right.

[Pakuni]

We're in deep crap if Matt Heldt is a 28-30mpg starter on this year's team lol. Which, you are sadly probably right.

We are, in fact, in deep crap.
Heldt would be the best post option on this team if the coach continued to insist that Ben Gold should play the 4.

[dgies9156]

I think the team has some pieces but they are not connected yet. 

While I find the RGV stuff to be pretty pathetic  and useless I think Shaka has changed his attitude in recruiting already by going after players that fit the team's needs instead of recruiting players that fit his style. 

While Hawk packed a lot into his post, these are the two points on which I wholly agree. The first one, particularly, is something I've seen from this team. They don't seem to play as a group and they certainly don't appear to be executing either Coach Shaka's offense or defense, especially when compared to past years.

I don't know whether we've just recruited players who aren't right for Coach Shaka's system or they just don't have the talent to execute what Coach wants. Neither is a good situation, which I hope leads to more of the latter point -- getting people who can meet specific team needs.

On the portal, I'm one of those people who believes Marquette has the money the men's basketball program needs to go after just about anyone Coach Shaka wants or needs. Admittedly, paying someone an outlying amount of money may disrupt what the basketball program has now, but a continued trend toward losing will certainly be more disruptive.

The real question is what's the minimum contribution the greater university expects from the basketball operations to fund other priorities. That's the real constraint under which Marquette operates.

All this said, Coach Shaka's success across the past four years warrants patience. Last thing I want is yet another coaching failure! Cut the man some slack!

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I couldn't dunk in HS ( or make the team ) but I do remember playing as hard as I could when I did play. It's hard to imagine our guys aren't playing their best and trying their hardest to compete on this big stage.
I'm disappointed in our record so far but will continue to respect their effort.

[KingKolek]

I understand Hamilton was always a project, but the issue is, they built the entire front court of the future out of projects. And has a single wild card for Shaka truly worked out at this point?

He is not only a negative high major player. He is a negative when considering the average Division I player. I don't know what people expected he'd be if this is better than they planned for...

[brewcity77]

We're in deep crap if Matt Heldt is a 28-30mpg starter on this year's team lol. Which, you are sadly probably right.

Well, as I look around I'm up to my knees in a brown substance and it sure doesn't smell like chocolate.

[Captain Quette]

Were you blackout drunk from 2014 through 2021? Because Wojo's first and last teams were definitely worse than Buzz's last year.

Could be convinced that buzz last year was not that bad. Think there were 3 guys on that team who appeared in the NBA. They went 17 n 2, I believe.

Was at mu with Dukiet and at least those teams played hard and we had some semblance of an offense. Example, I think there was a scrum during a game and Candelino bit a player from the other team. Don't see anyone on this soft as hell, can I get a hug roster....do that. We have no fight.

I thought we were gonna stink this past summer, then became optimistic and said 18 wins, current thought is 10 to 11 wins.

I wonder if the Hausers would write more letters.