Actions Shakas taken after a bad team

[Galway Eagle]

While at Marquette Shakas given a few interviews where he's mentioned he's had "one bad team" and that the lack of connectivity and buy in to the culture is what he felt cratered that season and why he's so invested in what has now become the RGV model.

I'm curious if anyone has taken a look at that team's issues and what pivots Shaka made after that 2017 season? Perhaps that could help inform us as to what to expect after this year.

[jfp61]

Shaka isn't wrong. The culture of this group is poor.

Now its poor because he allowed sophmores and juniors to fail upwards.

We have Gold and Ross and very little else

[Pakuni]

While at Marquette Shakas given a few interviews where he's mentioned he's had "one bad team" and that the lack of connectivity and buy in to the culture is what he felt cratered that season and why he's so invested in what has now become the RGV model.

I'm curious if anyone has taken a look at that team's issues and what pivots Shaka made after that 2017 season? Perhaps that could help inform us as to what to expect after this year.

He brought in a top 10 recruiting class highlighted by Mo Bamba, Matt Coleman and Jericho Sims. Two of them were immediate starters and the other was starting by the end of the season.
They grew and built relationships quickly.

[TheREALwrk]

Shaka isn't wrong. The culture of this group is poor.

Now its poor because he allowed sophmores and juniors to fail upwards.

We have Gold and Ross and very little else

You count having Ben Gold as having something?

[jfp61]

You count having Ben Gold as having something?

Somehow..... He is clearly the second best player on this team.

[Shooter McGavin]

He is the best big on the team on a team with no serviceable bigs. Because of that his importance is inflated. Nijel James is the second best player overall.

[Viper]

Somehow..... He is clearly the second best player on this team.

if I have Ross & James as 1 & 2, you'd place Gold ahead of...?

[Galway Eagle]

He brought in a top 10 recruiting class highlighted by Mo Bamba, Matt Coleman and Jericho Sims. Two of them were immediate starters and the other was starting by the end of the season.
They grew and built relationships quickly.

Didn't realize that class came after that year. Beyond recruiting he didn't make any adjustments? Staff, style, cut a bunch of returners?

[jfp61]

if I have Ross & James as 1 & 2, you'd place Gold ahead of...?

James.... because defense is fun

[Johnny B]

James.... because defense is fun

Forgot gold was some elite defender

[Shooter McGavin]

He's the only big who can defend.  So this will be a circular argument.

[jfp61]

Forgot gold was some elite defender

COMPARED TO EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS TEAM HE SOMEHOW IS

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Ben Gold gets more hate than deserved. Through 8 games, Evan Miya has him ranked 31st in the Big East based on Bayesian Performance Rating. (For comparison, Chase is ranked 7th and our third highest rated player is Royce at 48th.)

If senior year Ben Gold swapped places with junior year David Joplin, Gold would be just fine as a 4th/5th starter.  If Gold could swap places with senior year Dwight Burke, he would have been a huge upgrade and thrived next to the Amigos and Hayward.

Unfortunately, this team needs a number 2 scoring option and Ben never developed into more than a complementary piece.  Yes, it's somewhat disappointing, but that disappointment is exacerbated by the overall futility of the rest of the roster.

[Pakuni]

Ben Gold gets more hate than deserved. Through 8 games, Evan Miya has him ranked 31st in the Big East based on Bayesian Performance Rating. (For comparison, Chase is ranked 7th and our third highest rated player is Royce at 48th.)

This makes him a below average starter in the Big East. Which is exactly what he is.
Is that worthy of "hate?" No. He is who he is. But it's understandable for MU fans to be frustrated that their #2 guy is a below average starter in the entire conference.
And RGV can't work if your fourth-year players are below average starters.

[BM1090]

This makes him a below average starter in the Big East. Which is exactly what he is.
Is that worthy of "hate?" No. He is who he is. But it's understandable for MU fans to be frustrated that their #2 guy is a below average starter in the entire conference.
And RGV can't work if your fourth-year players are below average starters.

Right. There's nothing wrong with Ben. He's a deserving starter. It's the fact that he's our 2nd (or 3rd) best player that makes it a huge issue.

[MU82]

He is the best big on the team on a team with no serviceable bigs. Because of that his importance is inflated. Nijel James is the second best player overall.

If Nijel is second best, is Nigel third best? Or vice versa?

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Right. There's nothing wrong with Ben. He's a deserving starter. It's the fact that he's our 2nd (or 3rd) best player that makes it a huge issue.

Completely agree.

This makes him a below average starter in the Big East. Which is exactly what he is.
Is that worthy of "hate?" No. He is who he is. But it's understandable for MU fans to be frustrated that their #2 guy is a below average starter in the entire conference.
And RGV can't work if your fourth-year players are below average starters.

We are pretty much in agreement.  The only thing I slightly disagree with is your last sentence.

You can overcome a 4th year player being a below average starter if the rest of the roster is good enough.  Unfortunately, the sophomores and juniors have a grand total of 1 low level BE starter (Royce), 1-2 rotation players (Zaide, and maybe Sean), and a whole lotta mess.

Fans are justifiably upset, that we agree on.

[BCHoopster]

The biggest disappointment is the Sophmore class. When I initially saw Owens at last years Scrimmage, I thought he might be the next star on this team even last year, not getting off the bench is surprising.  Parham is so soft that adding him to the other bigs makes the front line weak at best.  Will not
Even discuss Caedin, not his fault, Shaka took a chance on him.

[Markusquette]

Completely agree.


We are pretty much in agreement.  The only thing I slightly disagree with is your last sentence.

You can overcome a 4th year player being a below average starter if the rest of the roster is good enough.  Unfortunately, the sophomores and juniors have a grand total of 1 low level BE starter (Royce), 1-2 rotation players (Zaide, and maybe Sean), and a whole lotta mess.

Fans are justifiably upset, that we agree on.

You can overcome by acquiring talent to make up for the misses in recruiting. I have a hard time believing Shaka didn't see the writing on the wall with some of these guys. I think he is stuck in his way and hopes that he will be able to cultivate teams full of talent + sustained growth and development using this model, but the reality is that may be taxing.

[#UnleashNigel]

Shaka isn't wrong. The culture of this group is poor.

Now its poor because he allowed sophmores and juniors to fail upwards.

We have Gold and Ross and very little else

You have gold as one of the non failures? We watching the same games this year?

[#UnleashNigel]

Somehow..... He is clearly the second best player on this team.

That's pretty clearly Nigel

[Jay Bee]

That's pretty clearly Nigel

I disagree. Ben it is.

[Pakuni]

I say this with obviously no inside information on how the staff has tried to coach Ben behind closed doors, but I wonder if he'd been better off from the start if they tried to develop him as more of an inside/out  player in the Zach Freemantle mold rather than try to turn him into poor man's Steve Novak.
It's wild to me that four years into his college career, a 6'11" player has no discernible post skills whatsoever. Maybe the staff has tried and it's just not taking, but it seems Ben would be a far more useful and effective player if he weren't relegated to a spot-up shooter who pump fakes and drives 2-3 times a game.

[Viper]

Shaka isn't wrong. The culture of this group is poor.

Now its poor because he allowed sophmores and juniors to fail upwards.

We have Gold and Ross and very little else

...but isn't Shaka wrong because of his overall assessment of talent? Ross, James...that's it. BUT, basketball doesn't need stars up and down a roster. If the guy will be yr 1 Shaka, add some transfers, this thing can turn back quickly. Will require he move on a few guys? So be it.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The 2016-17 Texas Longhorns team (Shaka's second season at UT) finished 11-22.  I presume that this is the team that Shaka has indirectly referenced.  Six of the top eight players in minutes played from the previous season (NCAAT appearance) either graduated or left for the draft (I. Taylor went undrafted, had a cup of coffee in the NBA).  The 2016 recruiting class for Texas was a top-15 or so (ESPN was 11th, Scout was 6th and Rivals was 16th).  From that class, only Jarrett Allen was drafted, with the others having varying college careers.  None of that year's senior class were top-minute-getters on the team.  The team also very much had the bottom-fall-out; they were a preseason top-25 team, but they ended up losing thirteen of their last sixteen games to close out the regular season.  To date, it is the only losing season in Shaka's career, and it wasn't really even close to a .500 season. 

The following season, Allen declares for the NBA draft (top in minutes from that team) and and Tevin Mack (who was second in minutes) transferred.  Lots of turnover, but they made the NCAAT again.  Sims and Bamba were both on the roster as future NBA players,but Sims didn't play significantly that year, and its leading minutes-getter was a transfer (D.Osetkowski from Tulane).

Through 16 seasons as a head coach, Smart has only not made the NCAAT four times.  Once in his first year at VCU (CBI Champions), once as referenced above (11-22 year), once in 18-19 (as NIT Champions) and once during the COVID season (but they would have made the NCAAT that year).  He has never gone two straight seasons of not making the tournament, so the resume shows that he does, in fact, make necessary changes after a bad year.