James vs Jones

[jfp61]

Or, at best, defensive energy like Stevie.

Stevie is a top tier Marquette defender.  Pretty much only bigs were ever on his level. Its Oso, Jae, and maybe Trent if we are being nice to include another guard.

Sean has yet to be a better defender than upperclassmen versions of Markus Howard.

[jfp61]

Great question. Caedin Hamilton has started 8 of 8 games this season.

Josh Clark and Michael Phillips are somehow playing less than Owens.

Clark and Phillips are also playing less combine than Caedin is.

This is how your culture turns bad quickly.

[hawk]

I would think that given what James has shown so far I would have to think that James will continue to start after Jones returns.  I don't however see the need to denigtrate Jones's game.  I just don't get the either/or nature of people in Hoop Scoop.  I see jones more like a pitcher coming back from Tommy John surgrry.  he's fit to play and can play but it won't be until next season that he is back to where he was before the injury.  Under an circumstances having Jones back is a big plus, now and intonext season.  Further I think that Stevens and Philips need more minutes even at the expense of Norman, Owens and Lowery.  The freshmen are tough minded and hungry to play and get better.  The issue for the team however remains post play.  Somebody needs to step up and be the third scorer.  It shoulf br Gold but I think that ship has sailed and I don't think it is Hamilton this year.  I am hopeful that Parham can smooth out his game and become that player before conference play starts.  I'd also give Clark some minutes becaus he at least knows how to dunk and make a layup. 

[MU82]

Most of them do. Because they either redshirt or aren't ready to contribute much. James is clearly a better player, so he should be upset if Jones takes his spot that he already earned.

Yup. Freshmen might "know what they are signing up for when they come to Marquette," as GE03 says. But Nigel's in a far different spot now than when he arrived on campus in the summer, when practice began and even when the season started. He has been elevated to PG1, he has gotten the minutes, and he has performed pretty darn well overall. If Jones is just handed the spot after returning from injury, I don't think James would just shrug his shoulders and say, "Oh well, I knew what I was signing up for." He probably wouldn't publicly protest, but he wouldn't be happy about it ... and it could lead to his early departure from the program.

Thankfully, this conversation will be moot. Barring injury, James will continue to start and get the majority of PG minutes.

[Stretchdeltsig]

I'm leaning Sean.

Nigel has been clearly better but I don't see any way Sean returns next season if he's a backup behind a Freshman PG and I'm sure Shaka wants Sean back next year because we don't have another PG set to return or on the recruiting trail.

You can't go into next season with 1 PG and Shaka won't want to use the portal to find a backup for a Sophomore PG either. I'm leaning Sean when fully healthy.

Its disappointing that Jones is injury prone. Expected him to be a star, leading the team this year. It's sad that he doesn't play.

[The Sultan]

Its disappointing that Jones is injury prone. Expected him to be a star, leading the team this year. It's sad that he doesn't play.

Yeah, I doubt that was going to be the case.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Its disappointing that Jones is injury prone. Expected him to be a star, leading the team this year. It's sad that he doesn't play.

You did?? What evidence did you base that on?

[brewcity77]

You did?? What evidence did you base that on?

I thought he would be that based on what the staff has been saying. Shaka was talking him up as ready to go last year. At one point, when asked about his impact another staff member pointed to Marquette having different players be back-to-back Cousy nominees (Tyler & Kam).

If you believed what the staff was saying about these guys, their self-evaluation indicated Sean would at least be an all-league caliber guy this year. Part of my concern going forward is their evaluations of many of these players and the belief this roster would be competitive based on said evaluations.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If you believed what the staff was saying about these guys, their self-evaluation indicated Sean would at least be an all-league caliber guy this year. Part of my concern going forward is their evaluations of many of these players and the belief this roster would be competitive based on said evaluations.

That is the biggest headscratcher.  We rolled with a strategy and bet on development, and it didnt play out.  Move on and adjust, I get it.

But it didnt take a basketball savant to envision we would be in rough shape this year.  The shock is 1. its worse than anyone envisioned and 2. it seems to be a surprise versus the expectations being set by the program and admin.  It's almost like the coaching staff has no idea what a high level D1 standard is listening to the words versus seeing the development results.

[MU82]

The few Scoopers who think Shaka will bench James and start Jones when Sean is healthy are probably stunned that Lowery wasn't allowed to get off the pine after Shaka benched him in favor of Stevens yesterday.

I know it sometimes doesn't feel like it, but Shaka wants to win. He wasn't "loyal" to Lowery yesterday, and he won't be "loyal" to Jones just because.

[MUbiz]

The few Scoopers who think Shaka will bench James and start Jones when Sean is healthy are probably stunned that Lowery wasn't allowed to get off the pine after Shaka benched him in favor of Stevens yesterday.

I know it sometimes doesn't feel like it, but Shaka wants to win. He wasn't "loyal" to Lowery yesterday, and he won't be "loyal" to Jones just because.

Now take that same approach and apply it to 18. Why is he still starting? MUBB is near 20 points per 100 possessions better with 18 on bench than floor. Parham, although he has not made a jump, is worlds better than 18.

[MU82]

Now take that same approach and apply it to 18. Why is he still starting? MUBB is near 20 points per 100 possessions better with 18 on bench than floor. Parham, although he has not made a jump, is worlds better than 18.

Because Shaka thinks that starting Hamilton and bringing in Parham off the bench is better for the team? One could argue that Shaka is wrong - and you just did - but I really don't think it's out of a sense of "loyalty" to Hamilton. Obviously, I can't prove it; nor can anybody who says it's only out of loyalty.

[MUbiz]

Because Shaka thinks that starting Hamilton and bringing in Parham off the bench is better for the team? One could argue that Shaka is wrong - and you just did - but I really don't think it's out of a sense of "loyalty" to Hamilton. Obviously, I can't prove it; nor can anybody who says it's only out of loyalty.

When you are starting someone with the on/off stats of 18 and its not loyalty, it is malpractice - and that is worse than loyalty imho. We have enough empirical evidence to suggest that 18 should be seeing extremely limited minutes - I am questioning Shaka's ability to coach because of the head scratching minutes.

Over the offseason, I looked at some Texas boards, there were posts about Shaka being loyal and not playing his best players while at Texas.

We will never know the true reason why Shaka is doing what he is doing - but either way it does not look good for Shaka.

[Its DJOver]

Starting no matta.  RP plays more mpg than CH despite the fact that he is worse than he was last year as a Freshman. If you want CH to play less, there should be just as much teeth gnashing about RP playing better and making Shaka play him more.

[MUbiz]

Starting no matta.  RP plays more mpg than CH despite the fact that he is worse than he was last year as a Freshman. If you want CH to play less, there should be just as much teeth gnashing about RP playing better and making Shaka play him more.

Fair - 18 should not be playing 20 min a game like he averages now. Starting or as a bench player. He should be leading the team in EGBs from the bench.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Starting no matta.  RP plays more mpg than CH despite the fact that he is worse than he was last year as a Freshman. If you want CH to play less, there should be just as much teeth gnashing about RP playing better and making Shaka play him more.

Thats kind of where I'm at - we're short talent at a few places and that can no longer be addressed.  I think Shaka should tighten up the rotation but mixing and matching amongst those that will get the majority mins at this point only marginally improves the situation. 

[Its DJOver]

Fair - 18 should not be playing 20 min a game like he averages now. Starting or as a bench player. He should be leading the team in EGBs from the bench.

Sure, but somebody has to play, and I haven't seen sh!t from Royce that suggests that those minutes should be going to him.

[MUbiz]

Sure, but somebody has to play, and I haven't seen sh!t from Royce that suggests that those minutes should be going to him.

We are 20 points worse per 100 possessions with 18 on floor. Does anyone know what Royce's on off is with the same other 4 players? My guess is not nearly as bad as 18.

[Its DJOver]

We are 20 points worse per 100 possessions with 18 on floor. Does anyone know what Royce's on off is with the same other 4 players? My guess is not nearly as bad as 18.

You can continue to repeat that stat as many times as you want, it doesn't change the fact that Royce has been worse than he was last year, while Hamilton has been better than he was last year.  Royce has done nothing to suggest that those minutes should be going to him.

I wouldn't hate the idea of going small. Ben, Chase, Stevens, Zaide and NJ would have been worth trying last night, especially when Ben was matched up with 6-8 200 lb Dease who was consistently taking him off the dribble. Let Chase take that match-up and throw Ben down low with Tupuola.  The problem is, for that to work, Zaide needs to not be awful.

[The Sultan]

When you are starting someone with the on/off stats of 18 and its not loyalty, it is malpractice - and that is worse than loyalty imho. We have enough empirical evidence to suggest that 18 should be seeing extremely limited minutes - I am questioning Shaka's ability to coach because of the head scratching minutes.

Over the offseason, I looked at some Texas boards, there were posts about Shaka being loyal and not playing his best players while at Texas.

We will never know the true reason why Shaka is doing what he is doing - but either way it does not look good for Shaka.

I think he is starting Hamilton because he doesn't want Ben Gold to play defense in the post so that he limits his fouls and makes a meaningful impact offensively. And he doesn't completely trust Royce there either.

It most certainly can be argued that Hamilton is playing too much. But he's not simply playing him for the sake of loyalty - otherwise, Tre would be getting huge minutes as well.

[Elonsmusk]

Could see Shaka starting both Sean and Nigel at this point to try to shake things up. Surprised Zaide has struggled to take a bigger jump - think his minutes are at risk if getting reduced by Stevens and Sean if he doesn't pick it up.

[Elonsmusk]

I think he is starting Hamilton because he doesn't want Ben Gold to play defense in the post so that he limits his fouls and makes a meaningful impact offensively. And he doesn't completely trust Royce there either.

It most certainly can be argued that Hamilton is playing too much. But he's not simply playing him for the sake of loyalty - otherwise, Tre would be getting huge minutes as well.

Good analysis.

[21Jumpstreet]

Could see Shaka starting both Sean and Nigel at this point to try to shake things up. Surprised Zaide has struggled to take a bigger jump - think his minutes are at risk if getting reduced by Stevens and Sean if he doesn't pick it up.

Interesting, maybe we will be able to play fast and hound guys on D. Let's try it!

[Jay Bee]

Sure, but somebody has to play, and I haven't seen sh!t from Royce that suggests that those minutes should be going to him.

Royce isn't the only option. Sounds like your take is CH's playing time is optimal for us to win games. Weird

[Its DJOver]

Royce isn't the only option. Sounds like your take is CH's playing time is optimal for us to win games. Weird

I suggested another option of going small, you must have missed that.  Weird.

I wouldn't hate the idea of going small. Ben, Chase, Stevens, Zaide and NJ would have been worth trying last night, especially when Ben was matched up with 6-8 200 lb Dease who was consistently taking him off the dribble. Let Chase take that match-up and throw Ben down low with Tupuola.  The problem is, for that to work, Zaide needs to not be awful.