What does this team do well?

[wadesworld]

The problem is when everyone defending him, like yourself, point out back to back 2 seeds they're talking about a program built differently than the one he's built now.

His first round draft pick was a transfer. His All American PG was a transfer. I'm not someone who thinks he needs to go portaling every year, but you don't get to brag about how he's doing it the right way when this is his first year actually doing that (you can call last year that too, but they fell apart last year). The results are terrible thus far.

Shaka's done it a lot of ways in his coaching career. It's why I think he'll adjust and continue to be a high level coach.

[BM1090]

This team is alarmingly bad. Without Ross, we would have multiple losses to cupcakes. Much different than shaka's first team/second team.

I don't agree, but even if I did it has nothing to do what I said. I'm not saying we're going to compete for the Big East next year. We're not. But I don't think it's hard to see how this team improves a lot next year either.

[Small Orange Soda]

Shaka's done it a lot of ways in his coaching career. It's why I think he'll adjust and continue to be a high level coach.

I certainly hope so. Going into this season with Caedin Hamilton as the starting center has got me having doubts.

[panda]

I don't agree, but even if I did it has nothing to do what I said. I'm not saying we're going to compete for the Big East next year. We're not. But I don't think it's hard to see how this team improves a lot next year either.

Really going out on a limb saying it can't get any worse than this year!

There is no reason a Marquette team in the 5th year of a coaches successful tenure should be this horrible. So many mistakes had to happen to reach this point and much of it is highly concerning for the future if no philosophical changes are made.

[BM1090]

The problem is when everyone defending him, like yourself, point out back to back 2 seeds they're talking about a program built differently than the one he's built now.

His first round draft pick was a transfer. His All American PG was a transfer. I'm not someone who thinks he needs to go portaling every year, but you don't get to brag about how he's doing it the right way when this is his first year actually doing that (you can call last year that too, but they fell apart last year). The results are terrible thus far.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves in this debate. Who cares they they were transfers? Those transfers played like normal college freshmen and sophomores their first year. Nobody projected them to improve like they did. Some wanted them to transfer out.

It doesn't matter if he takes transfers. It matters that his talent identification improves. This year's freshman class looks a lot better than the last two. That needs to continue. If it does, we'll be fine. If it doesn't, then I'll have concerns about Shaka. But it has nothing to do with if he's willing to take a transfer or two.

[BM1090]

Really going out on a limb saying it can't get any worse than this year!

Very clear you're not interested in an actual discussion. Peace.

[panda]

Very clear you're not interested in an actual discussion. Peace.

See my edit

[Small Orange Soda]

This is one of my biggest pet peeves in this debate. Who cares they they were transfers? Those transfers played like normal college freshmen and sophomores their first year. Nobody projected them to improve like they did. Some wanted them to transfer out.

It doesn't matter if he takes transfers. It matters that his talent identification improves. This year's freshman class looks a lot better than the last two. That needs to continue. If it does, we'll be fine. If it doesn't, then I'll have concerns about Shaka. But it has nothing to do with if he's willing to take a transfer or two.

I agree with what you're saying about transfers. It's about talent identification.

But so much of the identity has been about no transfers, and well, the biggest success has been with transfers.

But we gotta stop looking into guys who we're in recruiting battles with prep schools for. That's bad.

[Johnny B]

I don't agree, but even if I did it has nothing to do what I said. I'm not saying we're going to compete for the Big East next year. We're not. But I don't think it's hard to see how this team improves a lot next year either.

It's very hard to see

[KingKolek]

Your first point is your own strawman, though. None of us would be opposed to that. Most of us would welcome it.

And re: your second point, I think we'd all agree that the recruiting needs to get better.

I've heard Shaka himself get dismissive and act like we want him to go completely the other way, as well as from at least some avid supporters. I agree though, most thoughtful fans see the middle ground.

[Jay Bee]

I certainly hope so. Going into this season with Caedin Hamilton as the starting center has got me having doubts.

Going into yesterday's game with him still as the starting center has got me having even stronger doubts.

[panda]

Going into yesterday's game with him still as the starting center has got me having even stronger doubts.

He's averaging almost 20 mins/game! I wonder what blackmail he has on Shaka

[MarquetteMike1977]

They like each other. The fact you're so focused on basketball is annoying, we're building relationships here.

Fans no matter we are building relationships here

[MuggsyB]

I agree with what you're saying about transfers. It's about talent identification.

But so much of the identity has been about no transfers, and well, the biggest success has been with transfers.

But we gotta stop looking into guys who we're in recruiting battles with prep schools for. That's bad.

I'd venture to guess that Shaka believed Hamilton, Zaide, Tre, Royce, and Ben would be way better at this point in the season.  I certainly thought Zaide and Royce would be.  The said truth is they haven't at all and some have actually looked worse.   The biggest whiff imo is not having anyone who can consistently make plays off the bounce.  Kam developed that part of his game and Tyler was a maestro.  We don't have a player on our roster that makes it easier for others to get quality looks.  As for the defensive end?  I think our interior players really struggle.  I'll just leave it at that. 

[CTWarrior]

Lol yes. The guy who took over a program with 0 Tourney wins in the previous decade and got a 9 seed, 2 seed, 2 seed, and 7 seed his first season has shown year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful.

I've said it before, so I sound like a broken record, but those teams were carried by transfers and Wojo recruits, so not indicative of his philosophy, and we have steadily declined as those Wojo recruits and transfer graduated.  This is the first fully RGV team.

[Zog from Margo]

I've said it before, so I sound like a broken record, but those teams were carried by transfers and Wojo recruits, so not indicative of his philosophy, and we have steadily declined as those Wojo recruits and transfer graduated.  This is the first fully RGV team.

Why does Shaka get no credit for the transfers? He recruited Morsell, OMax, TKO, Kuath, Joplin, Ross, James, Stevens etc. Who cares if they came as transfers or out of high school? Let's be honest, MU started playing poorly last year when the Wojo recruits, Kam and Stevie (two guys Wojo never coached), were still on the roster and should have been leading. Wojo recruited some good players. Shaka has recruited some good players. They both recruited some players they shouldn't have. This year's team has too many players that don't fit the system Shaka uses or who aren't talented enough. Wojo didn't recruit players good enough to overcome his limitations as a coach.

[brewcity77]

Why does Shaka get no credit for the transfers? He recruited Morsell, OMax, TKO, Kuath, Joplin, Ross, James, Stevens etc. Who cares if they came as transfers or out of high school? Let's be honest, MU started playing poorly last year when the Wojo recruits, Kam and Stevie (two guys Wojo never coached), were still on the roster and should have been leading. Wojo recruited some good players. Shaka has recruited some good players. They both recruited some players they shouldn't have. This year's team has too many players that don't fit the system Shaka uses or who aren't talented enough. Wojo didn't recruit players good enough to overcome his limitations as a coach.

If you're going to blame last year on Kam and Stevie, I don't even know what to say. We probably win single digit games without those two. Two of the winningest players in program history.

[jesmu84]

Bump

Freshman looked decent

[rocky_warrior]

Freshman looked decent

I'm old enough to remember when we said that about Parham.

[HutchwasClutch]

Bump

Freshman looked decent

Let James and Stevens continue to start and play a lot. They'll make mistakes, but love their aggression and confidence. Two guys to build back with.

Phillips has a nice shot and length, but he isn't ready for more than bit minutes.

[HutchwasClutch]

I'm old enough to remember when we said that about Parham.

He'll get it going. He's rushing his shot at times.  But he needs to play through it. He has ability to score at all levels and has size and length.  Just needs to find consistency.  Too early to give up on him.

[onepost]

The usual suspects on this board were hand-wringing over me calling Indiana a "meh" team. They got handled by Minnesota and are getting punked today by Louisville. Just to record keep.

[GoFastAndWin]

Bump

Freshman looked decent

Bump

Freshman looked decent

I wish this was just a case of KO year1. That class was balanced inside and out and featured a schedule that included games @Duke and @Kansas (correct me if I'm wrong on KU).

I do think it will get better from here.

[rocky_warrior]

He'll get it going. He's rushing his shot at times.  But he needs to play through it. He has ability to score at all levels and has size and length.  Just needs to find consistency.  Too early to give up on him.

I'm not giving up on him, or the Frosh, just pointing out that development isn't always linear.

[willie warrior]

I will have what you are smoking. Please pass the pipe.