Shaka's Response

[MuggsyB]

As usual...Muggsy referring to himself in the 3rd person. 

That wasn't 3rd person. 

[The Sultan]

Great post.  I also recall a good handful of Scoopers hating on Kolek Year 1.  At one point Shaka found him crying in either a stall in the bathroom in the locker room, or locker room.  These guys pour their heart and soul into being D-1 basketball players and some of the tone used to critique the struggling players has been pretty damn harsh.

Huh.

[Pakuni]

Btw - How much do you donate to the MU Athletic department?

You keep asking this question. Do you believe one's ability to critique the program is directly correlated to the amount he or she donates to the athletic department?
Because in that case, you better be the guy who paid Wojo to leave.

[Elonsmusk]

There's a difference between a guy like Owens struggling and Hamilton.

Owens belongs on the court but is going through a rough patch.

About 75% of the time, Hamilton looks like he's never been on a basketball court. He is the worst on ball defender I've ever seen. There were probably three times in the Dayton game he pressured at the 3 point line and his man took a quick step and went right past him. If he doesn't get beat, he fouls his man.

He travels almost every time he makes a post move. If he doesn't put it up, he almost always turns the ball over.

His court sense is right around a zero. He has no clue of where he is when he's out there and is a massive detriment to the team defense because of it.

He seems like a good kid and hard worker but neither of that translates to a positive contributor to the team in the capacity which is currently asked of him.

This is a high major program not a make a wish deal.

Got it. The kid was late to the game of basketball, and as I said - the game is moving a little too fast for him right now - but he has some things you can build on, and he's improving. Many Scoopers bitch about us never having a "banger" and Hamilton qualifies as that.

[panda]

Got it. The kid was late to the game of basketball, and as I said - the game is moving a little too fast for him right now - but he has some things you can build on, and he's improving. Many Scoopers bitch about us never having a "banger" and Hamilton qualifies as that.

None of those reasons qualify as "valid" to carry a guy on a high major roster.

[Elonsmusk]

You keep asking this question. Do you believe one's ability to critique the program is directly correlated to the amount he or she donates to the athletic department?
Because in that case, you better be the guy who paid Wojo to leave.

Yes I do.  But no, I did not fund Wojo's buyout.  However, it wouldn't have been nearly as large if our admin listened to me Year 1 of letting them know Wojo didn't have it.  Instead, an overzealous Admin extended his contract in Year 2 after the amazing performance of knocking off crappy LSU and ASU teams in the Preseason NIT.

I take offense to those bitching about Shaka 6 games into Year 5 after all he's done to turn MU around from the 10 year NCAA tournament win drought prior to his arrival.  And doing so while top players are getting paid $750K+/year..and coaching at a school that has a small alumni base as compared to the Power 4 schools.

[The Sultan]

Got it. The kid was late to the game of basketball, and as I said - the game is moving a little too fast for him right now - but he has some things you can build on, and he's improving. Many Scoopers bitch about us never having a "banger" and Hamilton qualifies as that.

Hamilton isn't a banger.

[Viper]

Muggsy could bench 375 lbs. He had a "44 inch vert.  His tenacity and intelligence on the court were unparalleled.  He made guys better and drove opposing guards insane because of his relentless pressure and ball hawking excellence.  Only Magic and Gary Payton could post him up.  Bob Wade stated he was the best player on the best hs team in history which had 4 pros and 10 D-1 players.  In one game he executed a 360 degree alley oop pass, which resulted in an emphatic flush by Reggie Williams.  The crowd erupted, the game literally had to be stopped for 10 mins, and the glee and awe from that move remained in the air for the rest of the game.  We're talking about a living legend, an inspiration, and the personification of heart and toughness.  You will see a 7 foot combination of Jordan, Jokic, Lebron, Curry, and Durant before we'll see another Muggsy.  One of one.  Stop disparaging him.

winner! Full stop.

[Pakuni]

Got it. The kid was late to the game of basketball, and as I said - the game is moving a little too fast for him right now - but he has some things you can build on, and he's improving. Many Scoopers bitch about us never having a "banger" and Hamilton qualifies as that.

What makes Caedin a banger? He doesn't really protect the paint or rim. Doesn't block shots. Isn't a particularly good rebounder. I get that he's thick, but not sure what that translates to on the court.
The game is moving too fast for him is a reasonable excuse for a true freshman, not so much a player who's been in the program for three years.

Nothing against the kid. He seems like a good kid and hard worker, but he hasn't developed as we hoped.

[Viper]

Yes I do.  But no, I did not fund Wojo's buyout.  However, it wouldn't have been nearly as large if our admin listened to me Year 1 of letting them know Wojo didn't have it.  Instead, an overzealous Admin extended his contract in Year 2 after the amazing performance of knocking off crappy LSU and ASU teams in the Preseason NIT.

I take offense to those bitching about Shaka 6 games into Year 5 after all he's done to turn MU around from the 10 year NCAA tournament win drought prior to his arrival.  And doing so while top players are getting paid $750K+/year..and coaching at a school that has a small alumni base as compared to the Power 4 schools.

we see a trend. You see it too. It's worrisome. Hence, we bitch. Btw, you make Marquette seem like a MAC school. Small alumni base? Maybe compared to most state schools. But MU has a solid base, justified basketball and dental school 😉 swagger , and plenty of ca$h.

[Pakuni]

Yes I do.  But no, I did not fund Wojo's buyout.  However, it wouldn't have been nearly as large if our admin listened to me Year 1 of letting them know Wojo didn't have it.  Instead, an overzealous Admin extended his contract in Year 2 after the amazing performance of knocking off crappy LSU and ASU teams in the Preseason NIT.

I take offense to those bitching about Shaka 6 games into Year 5 after all he's done to turn MU around from the 10 year NCAA tournament win drought prior to his arrival.  And doing so while top players are getting paid $750K+/year..and coaching at a school that has a small alumni base as compared to the Power 4 schools.

So you'd be OK with the same criticism from a major donor. Got it.

You're either being disingenuous or simply not reading. The critiques of Shaka here aren't about the past six games. They're about the past 20, and the next 20 and the next 20 after that. It's not about a few ugly games, it's about a few ugly trends.

[MUCam]

There's a difference between a guy like Owens struggling and Hamilton.

...

He seems like a good kid and hard worker but neither of that translates to a positive contributor to the team in the capacity which is currently asked of him.

This is a high major program not a make a wish deal.

See, I have no problem with this criticism. I think it's a fair opinion with fair criticism. And, yes, this is high major basketball. He either cuts it or he doesn't; that'll determine his playing time.

The increase in scholarships allows coaches to keep guys around that might not otherwise be around (assuming those guys want to stick around), even if they can't cut it at the high major level. I like that. It allows coaches to be loyal to players in the same way we expect the players to be loyal to Marquette (woe be the player that leaves Marquette, for the barrage of negativity we sling at them).

Being loyal to the guys that maybe don't "cut it" makes receiving loyalty from those that excel much easier. We are loyal through and through.

But that's a different discussion, admittedly. People aren't saying Caedin should be run off (although they're getting quite close). They are questioning if he should be on the floor. Thats a fair question given what we have seen so far.

But do we have to discard him like yesterday's trash and write him off completely? I don't think so; yet that seems to be a common sentiment. As I said earlier, I like the kid's potential. It's not there yet. But he has shown some glimpses. Maybe he never comes around. Maybe he does. But I like the loyalty of sticking with him either way while he works through it. It sure paid off for us with Oso. You don't need to look far to see the people that questioned whether he (or Stevie Mitchell or countless others) was D-1 material early on.

Hopefully I'm right. But if I'm wrong, I hope Caedin continues to be a part of Marquette in whatever level his skill allows as long as he continues to be a hard worker, program stable, and great representative.

[panda]

See, I have no problem with this criticism. I think it's a fair opinion with fair criticism. And, yes, this is high major basketball. He either cuts it or he doesn't; that'll determine his playing time.

The increase in scholarships allows coaches to keep guys around that might not otherwise be around (assuming those guys want to stick around), even if they can't cut it at the high major level. I like that. It allows coaches to be loyal to players in the same way we expect the players to be loyal to Marquette (woe be the player that leaves Marquette, for the barrage of negativity we sling at them).

Being loyal to the guys that maybe don't "cut it" makes receiving loyalty from those that excel much easier. We are loyal through and through.

But that's a different discussion, admittedly. People aren't saying Caedin should be run off (although they're getting quite close). They are questioning if he should be on the floor. Thats a fair question given what we have seen so far.

But do we have to discard him like yesterday's trash and write him off completely? I don't think so; yet that seems to be a common sentiment. As I said earlier, I like the kid's potential. It's not there yet. But he has shown some glimpses. Maybe he never comes around. Maybe he does. But I like the loyalty of sticking with him either way while he works through it. It sure paid off for us with Oso. You don't need to look far to see the people that questioned whether he (or Stevie Mitchell or countless others) was D-1 material early on.

Hopefully I'm right. But if I'm wrong, I hope Caedin continues to be a part of Marquette in whatever level his skill allows as long as he continues to be a hard worker, program stable, and great representative.

I have minimal issue carrying a project with the 15th spot on the roster.

Caedin is not that. He is starting on a high major roster. A position he has no business being in.

Once again, the rationale from those in support of him are completely irrational.

[Pakuni]

we see a trend. You see it too. It's worrisome. Hence, we bitch. Btw, you make Marquette seem like a MAC school. Small alumni base? Maybe compared to most state schools. But MU has a solid base, justified basketball and dental school 😉 swagger , and plenty of ca$h.

Size of the alumni base isn't irrelevant, but the alumni base's interest/investment is far more important. MU ranked 9th in the nation in attendance last year. That's a far more important stat thanhow many kids graduated last year. UCF graduates about 15,000 undergrads a year, to MU's 1,500. But I bet MU graduates more kids every year who care a lot about their alma mater's basketball team.

[PointWarrior]

This, and a bigger bag of money.

The v part of rgv

[#UnleashNigel]

Man, if only we had this level of immediacy with Wojo lol.

[MUCam]

I have minimal issue carrying a project with the 15th spot on the roster.

Caedin is not that. He is starting on a high major roster. A position he has no business being in.

Once again, the rationale from those in support of him are completely irrational.

Question: Is there anyone on this board suggesting Caedin is performing to an appropriate level for a Big East player and is a competent Big East starter at this time, or is that just hyperbole on your part?

If so, who, where, and when did they "support" him in that way?

Just curious. Seems like another logical fallacy (ie Straw Man). Maybe "reason" and "rationale" aren't words you should throw around so lightly.

[Pakuni]

Man, if only we had this level of immediacy with Wojo lol.

Man, nobody is saying Shaka should be fired or his job is in danger. Some are just noting the troubling trends and suggesting Shaka may want to tweak some of his choices that brought us here.
And if you don't think Wojo faced criticism early and often around here, you weren't paying attention.

[panda]

Question: Is there anyone on this board suggesting Caedin is performing to an appropriate level for a Big East player and is a competent Big East starter at this time, or is that just hyperbole on your part?

If so, who, where, and when did they "support" him in that way?

Just curious. Seems like another logical fallacy (ie Straw Man). Maybe "reason" and "rationale" aren't words you should throw around so lightly.

The issue isn't with posters here Copernicus.

It's with the head coach who's playing a guy way over his skis.

Is that clear enough for you?

[brewcity77]

Yes I do.  But no, I did not fund Wojo's buyout.  However, it wouldn't have been nearly as large if our admin listened to me Year 1 of letting them know Wojo didn't have it.  Instead, an overzealous Admin extended his contract in Year 2 after the amazing performance of knocking off crappy LSU and ASU teams in the Preseason NIT.

I take offense to those bitching about Shaka 6 games into Year 5 after all he's done to turn MU around from the 10 year NCAA tournament win drought prior to his arrival.  And doing so while top players are getting paid $750K+/year..and coaching at a school that has a small alumni base as compared to the Power 4 schools.

The problem is once you make a decision on someone, you have to scream it at everyone as if it's the only possible correct conclusion. You moaned about Wojo because you decided she five minutes he was the devil and got banned repeatedly because you attacked everyone with your POV for years even as results were generally on an upward trendline, and still attack people who didn't turn on Wojo until after year 5.

Now you have sainted Shaka and are unwilling to listen to valid, good faith criticisms of him. This start equals the worst start under Wojo in 2014-15 and is the worst at Marquette in 35 years. We've lost as many home non-con games in 2 weeks as Shaka had lost in 4 years. This roster is clearly not as talented as the last 4. We are building this roster in a way no other high major is, and when you are one of one and it's not working, it will incur more criticism.

I don't think any of these statements are particularly controversial, yet you act like an attack dog every time someone alludes to these realities because you decided Shaka is the be all, end all and can't bear criticism.

The reality is Wojo wasn't the devil, he was an inexperienced coach who was unable to meet program expectations. Shaka isn't a saint, he's an experienced coach who has done very well in his start here but there are some valid reasons for concern about how his model will work in a changing NCAA landscape. And people will have different viewpoints on both coaches, and that's okay.

[K1 Lover]

Man, nobody is saying Shaka should be fired or his job is in danger. Some are just noting the troubling trends and suggesting Shaka may want to tweak some of his choices that brought us here.
And if you don't think Wojo faced criticism early and often around here, you weren't paying attention.

I personally don't want to see Shaka fired anytime soon, but the thought does raise an interesting question IMO.

While's it been mentioned on here that Marquette has never kept a coach after two consecutive losing seasons, I can see a scenario where going sub-.500 this year and next puts him squarely on the hot seat, with his previous successes affording him one last chance and season to turn things around (so long as we haven't been finishing at the bottom of the Big East).

So hypothetically, if this were to happen and Shaka was on his last strike, do we think that he'd finally give in to the pressure and utilize the portal? Or would he double down one last time in the same way he's continuously done so far?