Shaka’s mess

[MU82]

I want to know what the odds of being a tourney team are at this point.  KenPom.  Give it to the fans straight.

Instead of this BS.   We have players close to breaking out.

With what I consider 3 bad losses.   2 at home.  I would say we are about a 25% chance of making the tourney.

UConn is going to beat us by 40.

Now I know what it feels like to be Providence or Seton Hall.   Who will probably both beat us also.

Even DePaul looks better at this point.

I am preparing for really really bad.

What is Shaka's spin if we lose 20?

Only 20? I say we finish 3-29. Absolutely no chance to beat DePaul, Seton Hall or Central Michigan. And your UConn prediction doesn't go far enough; they'll beat us by 400. Twice.

At least since 1977 when we kicked their ass for the natty.

Yup, joyless willie, we haven't won a single game worth mentioning since. Might as well have folded up the program on March 29, 1977. Coulda used the $$$ to bring back football.

[Pakuni]

Absolutely insane "minimum" expectations for a program with 6 Sweet Sixteens and 4 conference titles in the last 35 years.

Since Al left, Marquette has only made the tournament about 60-65% of the time.  Since Crean was hired, it's 64% (16/25, 1 tournament cancelled).  I never want Marquette to miss the tournament in a given year, but I also acknowledge that some years just don't work out.

Sure, we all want Marquette to be a powerhouse like the Al McGuire days.  But some people want to ignore the last 35-50 years of history and say our "minimum" expectation should exceed what we've done in that time.  It's laughable.

COLE. You're basically arguing that the Dukiet/Deane/Wojo years of MU basketball are acceptable outcomes. Thank goodness the administration didn't feel that way.
I see the Crean, Buzz and Shaka eras and say "that's what MU can and should be." I see the Dukiet, Deane and Wojo eras and say they failed to live up to the standard.

Since 2000, Xavier has made eight Sweet 16 appearances. Wisconsin has 10. Creighton has made three in just the last four years.
Apparently, believing Marquette belongs in the same neighborhood as these storied programs is "absolutely insane."  Apparently, believing Buzz's success at Marquette is repeatable is also "absolutely insane." Shaka's success in his first four seasons at Marquette? "Absolutely insane."

[Captain Quette]

Not too many saying season is over and I guess mathematically there is a chance. "So you're saying there's a chance."

Appreciate your optimism but anyone who's watched this team play or reviewed the roster understands where we stand. Try to be objective when watching this team play, it's not easy but you may see things a bit differently.

I actually think our odds to make tournament are worse next year if shaka rolls w this roster and we lose Chase n Ben.

We are Marquette

[Uncle Rico]

COLE. You're basically arguing that the Dukiet/Deane/Wojo years of MU basketball are acceptable outcomes. Thank goodness the administration didn't feel that way.
I see the Crean, Buzz and Shaka eras and say "that's what MU can and should be." I see the Dukiet, Deane and Wojo eras and say they failed to live up to the standard.

Since 2000, Xavier has made eight Sweet 16 appearances. Wisconsin has 10. Creighton has made three in just the last four years.
Apparently, believing Marquette belongs in the same neighborhood as these storied programs is "insane."

This will get yelled at, but, Sweet 16's aren't a good measure.  Tourney appearances is a better gauge but I won't die on that hill.

[cheebs09]

Plus, good luck trying to recruit any transfers or high schoolers if you say, had a rough stretch to start the year, we are punting your senior year to develop freshman.

Chase and Ben have given too much to the program to let that happen.

[Pakuni]

This will get yelled at, but, Sweet 16's aren't a good measure.  Tourney appearances is a better gauge but I won't die on that hill.

That's fine, but I'm not sure it changes my point any. I don't find it insane to set a standard where Marquette performs on the same level as the Wisconsins, Creightons and Xaviers of the world.

[Uncle Rico]

That's fine, but I'm not sure it changes my point any. I don't find it insane to set a standard where Marquette performs on the same level as the Wisconsins, Creightons and Xaviers of the world.

Agree

[WhiteTrash]

Plus, good luck trying to recruit any transfers or high schoolers if you say, had a rough stretch to start the year, we are punting your senior year to develop freshman.

Chase and Ben have given too much to the program to let that happen.

A program that rewards good play with minutes is very appealing to HS and transfer recruits.

Note: I have not advocated for any player to have their minutes changed.

[The Sultan]

A program that rewards good play with minutes is very appealing to HS and transfer recruits.

Note: I have not advocated for any player to have their minutes changed.

But that's not what onepost et. al. were aruging. They were arguing that Shaka should remove the redshirts and play the young guys because the season is over and we need to see if they can play. The implication is that some of the better players would have their time cut for the sake of the younger players.

[Viper]

Good thing there are separate seasons and not a rolling 12 month record.

...but, you have to acknowledge the trend is troubling

[brewcity77]

Brew,

What are your remedies?  Are we bereft of talent or are there any changes we can immediately make?   I might try 4 guards with Ben or Royce. 

Circling back...I don't know that the remedies we need are on this roster.

We can't create open threes, can't make contested threes, and are poor converting at the rim. It isn't just a starter problem, it's up and down the roster.

Defensively, we don't fight over screens and as a result give up too many open threes, don't have much rim protection, and aren't a good switching team. That makes it easy to get open looks at the perimeter and hunt mismatches inside. Worse, even when we do force turnovers, we're not great at turning them into points.

What's even worse is that our schedule is only going to get harder. We're shooting 31.2% from three overall, but just 27.6% against top-150 opponents. We're 58.4% at the rim, but that drops to 50.4% against top-150.

I'm looking for optimism, but it's hard to come by.

[Viper]

COLE. You're basically arguing that the Dukiet/Deane/Wojo years of MU basketball are acceptable outcomes. Thank goodness the administration didn't feel that way.
I see the Crean, Buzz and Shaka eras and say "that's what MU can and should be." I see the Dukiet, Deane and Wojo eras and say they failed to live up to the standard.

Since 2000, Xavier has made eight Sweet 16 appearances. Wisconsin has 10. Creighton has made three in just the last four years.
Apparently, believing Marquette belongs in the same neighborhood as these storied programs is "absolutely insane."  Apparently, believing Buzz's success at Marquette is repeatable is also "absolutely insane." Shaka's success in his first four seasons at Marquette? "Absolutely insane."

actually, go back a few yrs farther. Raymonds takes over for AL...HC and AD. Things slide, understandable. Tough to replace a legend AND the landscape of college hoops was changing. Five yrs on, Raymond's retires as coach, stays as AD. Majerus up(my era). NIT city! Change made, for piano man. Ugh. So, in comes KO. He deserves serious credit for getting the ship floating again. MU doesn't adjust. KO gone! In comes Deane. He's ok, then not. You know the rest. We've been down this road before, unfortunately. And, I have no feel for how this plays out other than this year is likely a bust. But, in this era of big $, aggression wins...either via the portal, recruiting HS talent...preferably both. Hoping Shaka's plan equals V.

[Billy Hoyle]

But that's not what onepost et. al. were aruging. They were arguing that Shaka should remove the redshirts and play the young guys because the season is over and we need to see if they can play. The implication is that some of the better players would have their time cut for the sake of the younger players.

I disagree regarding the redshirts, especially Sheek, since he should still be in high school. Let him use this year to develop physically and mentally for the college game. If Shaka thought they could countribute this year they'd be playing.

[NCMUFan]

That was 50 years ago.  You could smoke unfiltereds at the bar and broads were still in the kitchen where they belonged but then woke happened and we can't smoke and broads wear trousers.  SMDH

I think you need to go to the 1940s or 1950s to hear the term broads.
The Woman Liberation movement was in full swing in the 1970s.
I think in the 1970s MU enrollment was close to 50% male and 50% female.
But some things come back.  The  younger generations hair today could pass for the 1970s.
We can wish the quality level of music of the 1970s would come back. So many classics.

[rocky_warrior]

since he should still be in high school

C'mon, he's older that Markus was... 

[The Sultan]

I think in the 1970s MU enrollment was close to 50% male and 50% female.

Right, but back then they just became teachers and nurses before retiring and pumping out kids like God intended.

[Billy Hoyle]

C'mon, he's older that Markus was... 

yeah, forgot about that. Besides, we all know 17 year old 6-11 205 centers are ready to dominate the high major college game.

[MUDPT]

5.8% chance of making it per Torvik.

https://barttorvik.com/tranketology.php

[NCMUFan]

Right, but back then they just became teachers and nurses before retiring and pumping out kids like God intended.

I think you just insulted a lot of career woman in other professions from the 1970s.

[WhiteTrash]

But that's not what onepost et. al. were aruging. They were arguing that Shaka should remove the redshirts and play the young guys because the season is over and we need to see if they can play. The implication is that some of the better players would have their time cut for the sake of the younger players.

Fair point that I errored on.

On a separate topic, I'm not in favor of rewarding players with playing time based upon time in the program and I don't think most HC in college do that, nor do most players expect it.

[Hards Alumni]

Circling back...I don't know that the remedies we need are on this roster.

We can't create open threes, can't make contested threes, and are poor converting at the rim. It isn't just a starter problem, it's up and down the roster.

Defensively, we don't fight over screens and as a result give up too many open threes, don't have much rim protection, and aren't a good switching team. That makes it easy to get open looks at the perimeter and hunt mismatches inside. Worse, even when we do force turnovers, we're not great at turning them into points.

What's even worse is that our schedule is only going to get harder. We're shooting 31.2% from three overall, but just 27.6% against top-150 opponents. We're 58.4% at the rim, but that drops to 50.4% against top-150.

I'm looking for optimism, but it's hard to come by.

And that's what Shaka's job is.  He has to adjust what they planned to do of offense entirely.  Figuring out something this fundamental in late November usually isn't a recipe for success though.  I'm sure it is keeping him up all night.

[brewcity77]

Probably need to get compliance to work harder on getting the Greek kid with the funny name eligible by second semester.

[Hards Alumni]

Probably need to get compliance to work harder on getting the Greek kid with the funny name eligible by second semester.

He'd just be watching on the sidelines alongside Sean. 

[Uncle Rico]

I think you just insulted a lot of career woman in other professions from the 1970s.

Those career women need to read a Bible and know their role.

[The Sultan]

Those career women need to read a Bible and know their role.

Right. Just think what would have happened if Mary Magdalene would have become an accountant.