Shaka’s mess

[CountryRoads]

Funds were secured following the meeting when wojo refused to change his staff. This happened in a matter of a few days.

Always find it hard to believe that Wojo actually had a pathway to retain his job. The only thing he had to do was agree to replace Jake Presutti? Or not to promote one of the graduate assistants to an assistant coach? I think they even had an opening if I remember correctly.

[Elonsmusk]

*not the first sign of adversity. See second half of season last year

And WTF was Shaka supposed to do second half of last season?  Go to the portal?  (Which is the end all be all solution for all of you hating on Shaka and our program at present.)

Though it may seem highly unlikely, could it not be possible that this year is the exact inverse of last year?  Where this team starts like crap, but finishes strong?  Last year Scoopers were riding high after Maryland, Purdue and Wisconsin last - did we see the 5 and 8 finish happening in the last 13 games of the year?  Probably not.  I'm hopeful this year could be the inverse despite the early evidence not looking good.

And, if we miss the NCAA this year, I'll still be 100% behind Shaka and the guys on the team - they are winners and will get it turned around.

[MU82]

Yes, things aren't great right now.  We can all agree on that.  It just strikes me as petty, and ungrateful, that our passionate Scoop fanbase is bitching about Shaka after what he's done here in 4 years.

Shaka's a bright guy.  He will get it sorted out.  It may take a year or two, but it will get resolved.

Last night was ugly, but I still feel this team will be one that improves over the course of the year, versus the one that faded last season. 

Being an eternal optimist, I hope you're right. I like Shaka, and very much want him to succeed (as most Scoopers do), but it's also OK for fans to criticize the coach when warranted, and both his recruiting and in-game coaching have been exposed this season. I screamed myself hoarse last night watching Gold running around 40 feet from the basket, opening up the middle for Dayton dunks. And why does a team that can't shoot 3s keep firing up one 3 after another after another? And what was that last possession of regulation? Also, we simply don't have enough good players to compete at the level Marquette should be competing at; that is 100% on the coach.

I am miles away from saying fire the coach. I'm pretty sure Shaka has earned enough grace to have ... um ... "developing" teams this season and next. But if MU hasn't shown the improvement we all want, he then will be squarely on the hot seat, and that's never pretty. Fans are already starting to make derisive chants. "Fire Shaka" will not play well. So again, here's hoping you're right and that my optimism isn't misplaced.

[CTWarrior]

What part of Sweet 16, two NCAA Tournament 2 seeds, 4 out of 4 seasons in the NCAA, a Big East Regular and Conference Tournament title didn't you understand?  Not to mention he's been to a Final Four.

He accomplished those things with transfers and Wojo leftovers doing all of the heavy lifting.  There are no more of those players and the team looks bad now and the future doesn't look so good, either.  That is a big cause for concern for me.  I worry he won't be able to coach up what we have to anything good over the next few seasons.  Don't think that is unreasonable.

[Elonsmusk]

I admire your admiration of Shaka and in the past you have made reference to him utilizing the name "God" in your posts. Any critique of Shaka by this board's members have resulted in your vitriol hatred of them, calling them now a shitty fanbase.  Thats not a fair assumption, most everyone is just a passionate fan and each has their own opinions. Your sensitivity towards any critical comments are extreme to say the least.

Also, why do you, on a consistent basis, when anyone does criticize Shaka, do you bring up Wojo as part of your response?  He has been gone for five years and has nothing to do with the current administration, roster construction and the outcome of the games.

Calling Shaka a "God" send is a figure of speech.  That being said, I do feel MU hit the jackpot with him, and is very fortunate to have Shaka at the helm at this time in history in collegiate sports.

Why do I bring Wojo into the conversation?  Because for the better part of 5 years, many of the Scoopers complaining about Shaka were preaching patience for Wojo, and suggesting he'd get it together - despite ANY evidence or skins on the wall that he was capable.

Juxtapose that against a guy in Shaka, who has a Final Four on his resume, and came into MU after the train wreck of Wojo, and has accomplished what he has accomplished - and the same Scoopers who were supportive of Wojo and preached patience do a 180 and crap on Shaka now?  It's crazy.

[Billy Hoyle]

You didn't have to pay $1M to retain (or attract) players like Kolek and Kam in 2021-2022.  Market shifted rapidly.  We are a small, private school with alumni size (access of money) of roughly 20% of the Power 4 conference schools.

Do you think Duke was able to pay Kon more than MU?  Not to mention MU doesn't hold a candle to Duke as a basketball school.

Butler was able to outbid Michigan and other P4 schools for Jalen Jackson (no. 15 player in the Portal at the time he committed to Butler, per 24/7). Do we have less money than Butler?

Do we have less than Creighton? Are we going to play little sisters of the poor now?

Also, it's not fiction that Shaka's best players were either transfers or all signed under Wojo. I'm starting to see some Deane parallels in terms of patterns of success as the roster turns over.

[brewcity77]

Shaka is infinitely more capable and bright than Wojo.  He will get it turned around.  As ugly as the start to this season has been, I still think the team will show improvement going forward.

I also think another year of experience and lineup next year of Nigel, Adrien, Zaide, Royce, Sheek/Clark/Hamilton with some great shooters off the bench in Phillips, Walker, Ian - and a physical guard like Egbouno is a roster I can get excited about.

This offense with these players doesn't work. We don't have the shooters to make the volume of contested threes we're taking, and we don't have the shot creators to provide better looks.

At the rim, we're 294th. These guys are not capable of scoring the basketball. How do you get +21 & +16 in FGA, dominate the offensive glass twice, and win turnovers twice yet lose consecutive games?

So now we're supposed to count on relationships and growth when it looks like 67% of this year's roster isn't going to make positive contributions? Why will it be better with upcoming classes than it's been with the inconsistency of seniors and the lack of development or outright regression of juniors and sophomores?

I chose to believe last year even though there were some big red flags. I chose to believe this year because I thought the system & coaching evaluation would deliver. But with our at-large hopes already over and no real hope of adding instant impact to replace Ben and Chase, my natural optimism isn't finding room to come through.

[Markusquette]

Where is the great MU and Shaka apologist Tower during this early season mess?

[Elonsmusk]

He accomplished those things with transfers and Wojo leftovers doing all of the heavy lifting.  There are no more of those players and the team looks bad now and the future doesn't look so good, either.  That is a big cause for concern for me.  I worry he won't be able to coach up what we have to anything good over the next few seasons.  Don't think that is unreasonable.

Guess we'll see. Shaka did recruit Oso heavily while he was at Texas (recognized his talent/potential.)  Oso of course floundered under Wojo his first year - so maybe Shaka is able to coach guys up (like Kam and Stevie too).  Kolek improved a ton under his time as a player with Shaka as coach.

To suggest Shaka can't develop players is pretty suspect in my opinion.

[NCMUFan]

Shaka has created a mess. And, unfortunately he and MU have tripled down on it ...

In the last few weeks MU had a big story in their Alumni magazine about Shaka and his refusal to use the portal. Worse yet, the NYT wrote an article on the same topic.

It seems to me that he and MU (Kimo) are just SO in love with being holier than all of college hoops that they have backed themselves into a serious corner.

This team is Shaka's , and the team is flat out terrible. He's assembled a roster that has ( at most ) four or five BE caliber players; Ross, Gold, James and Zaide.  After that ?  Meh.  Nothing

He wants the team to shoot tons of threes, but they CAN'T shoot ! They play no defense... they turn the ball over way too much... and oh - are so badly coached they can't get a shot off in 17 seconds!

I hope I'm wrong, but this is a .500 team at best.  Likely worse.

And now what ?  How does he change course? Or is he too stubborn? Does he change his mind and use the Portal?

The whole premise of outright refusal to use the portal is insane.  For us to
" trust Shaka " means we have to believe that he's smarter than every other D1 coach. Really... think about that. He knows better than Hurley, Pitino, IZZO, etc etc


Did he not see this coming ?  Does he think Hamilton is a BE center?  Why is Tre still on the team ?  And Owens? Just awful

Where does he go from here ?

Nice steal by Tre and some nice power moves by Hamilton.
But I have to agree, practicing much with same players that may have a set ceiling is not going to get you to the finish line.

[Billy Hoyle]

Calling Shaka a "God" send is a figure of speech.  That being said, I do feel MU hit the jackpot with him, and is very fortunate to have Shaka at the helm at this time in history in collegiate sports.

Why do I bring Wojo into the conversation?  Because for the better part of 5 years, many of the Scoopers complaining about Shaka were preaching patience for Wojo, and suggesting he'd get it together - despite ANY evidence or skins on the wall that he was capable.

Juxtapose that against a guy in Shaka, who has a Final Four on his resume, and came into MU after the train wreck of Wojo, and has accomplished what he has accomplished - and the same Scoopers who were supportive of Wojo and preached patience do a 180 and crap on Shaka now?  It's crazy.

that Final Four was 14 years ago and he was run off from his next job at Texas. He's done some great things at MU, but the trajectory is concerning, especially being unable to capitalize on the momentum of the Big East titles and two consecutive #2 seeds.

[LAZER]

This is how I feel. I think it takes a couple years. Shaka has proven he will practice what he preaches over the last few years, recruits are responding to that, if we are in the Final Four in four years, I'd say he has proven the model. I think we get there. His philosophy should methodically improve the talent year over year, and I think we see that in a couple years. 

His philosophy has not improved the talent over the last few years which is kinda the crux of problem right now.  Either he's not identifying the right talent, not developing the talent, or a combination of the two. If everyone is bought into his culture and they're just not performing, he needs to address it. If guys haven't bought into the culture, he needs to address it as well.

[brewcity77]

Guess we'll see. Shaka did recruit Oso heavily while he was at Texas (recognized his talent/potential.)  Oso of course floundered under Wojo his first year - so maybe Shaka is able to coach guys up (like Kam and Stevie too).  Kolek improved a ton under his time as a player with Shaka as coach.

To suggest Shaka can't develop players is pretty suspect in my opinion.

This summer, every interview Shaka did, the first two guys he mentioned were Sean and Caedin. From the jump, it was clear NJ was the best PG on the roster and Caedin in year 3 still looks unplayable. 10,000 hook shots and he's taken what, one this year?

Repeatedly telling us how Caedin is the baddest player in the Big East and the successor to Oso is setting him up for failure. And if the staff really believed that stuff, that's incredibly alarming.

[nyg]

Calling Shaka a "God" send is a figure of speech.  That being said, I do feel MU hit the jackpot with him, and is very fortunate to have Shaka at the helm at this time in history in collegiate sports.

Why do I bring Wojo into the conversation?  Because for the better part of 5 years, many of the Scoopers complaining about Shaka were preaching patience for Wojo, and suggesting he'd get it together - despite ANY evidence or skins on the wall that he was capable.

Juxtapose that against a guy in Shaka, who has a Final Four on his resume, and came into MU after the train wreck of Wojo, and has accomplished what he has accomplished - and the same Scoopers who were supportive of Wojo and preached patience do a 180 and crap on Shaka now?  It's crazy.

Well, Shaka is not a God figure and maybe a bit over the top in your terminology. Again, I admire your obsession with him and MU hitting the jackpot.  I like Shaka, he appears to be a nice guy, but his problem has been post regular season success.  Yes, he has made the NCAATs, good for him, but as a two seed twice with four current NBA players, has sort of underperformed. Just like at Texas. This season is his and his alone and based upon the first six games, might be very difficult.

That being said, there will be abundant criticism and maybe you can provide you opinion in a civil manner and not continually bring up Wojo as part of your responses.  He has nothing to do with the current team. 

[Elonsmusk]

This offense with these players doesn't work. We don't have the shooters to make the volume of contested threes we're taking, and we don't have the shot creators to provide better looks.

At the rim, we're 294th. These guys are not capable of scoring the basketball. How do you get +21 & +16 in FGA, dominate the offensive glass twice, and win turnovers twice yet lose consecutive games?

So now we're supposed to count on relationships and growth when it looks like 67% of this year's roster isn't going to make positive contributions? Why will it be better with upcoming classes than it's been with the inconsistency of seniors and the lack of development or outright regression of juniors and sophomores?

I chose to believe last year even though there were some big red flags. I chose to believe this year because I thought the system & coaching evaluation would deliver. But with our at-large hopes already over and no real hope of adding instant impact to replace Ben and Chase, my natural optimism isn't finding room to come through.

I can appreciate your sentiments here, and you're not wrong.  In my view, though, only Chase and Ben have played major roles in the past.  Chase largely has improved his game/taken a step.  Ben is pretty much neutral with last year, but serviceable.

What we are dealing with is waiting for guys who have never done it before (Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin, Tre, Owens), to be able to take a next step.

So, while we have great roster continuity, we really only had 2 guys who had done it before.  I still feel we will see progress with all of Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin.  Tre may have played his best game at MU last night.

I just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.

[Elonsmusk]

that Final Four was 14 years ago and he was run off from his next job at Texas. He's done some great things at MU, but the trajectory is concerning, especially being unable to capitalize on the momentum of the Big East titles and two consecutive #2 seeds.

Is he Tom Crean, 2.0?

[Billy Hoyle]

Guess we'll see. Shaka did recruit Oso heavily while he was at Texas (recognized his talent/potential.)  Oso of course floundered under Wojo his first year - so maybe Shaka is able to coach guys up (like Kam and Stevie too).  Kolek improved a ton under his time as a player with Shaka as coach.

To suggest Shaka can't develop players is pretty suspect in my opinion.

Oso was shut down for the season due to injuries and missed the final nine games of the season. He would have "floundered" under Shaka too under the same circumstances.

[Hards Alumni]

I can appreciate your sentiments here, and you're not wrong.  In my view, though, only Chase and Ben have played major roles in the past.  Chase largely has improved his game/taken a step.  Ben is pretty much neutral with last year, but serviceable.

What we are dealing with is waiting for guys who have never done it before (Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin, Tre, Owens), to be able to take a next step.

So, while we have great roster continuity, we really only had 2 guys who had done it before.  I still feel we will see progress with all of Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin.  Tre may have played his best game at MU last night.

I just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.

Sounds nice, sports fans are fickle when they see how much coaches and now players are being paid.

[Elonsmusk]

Well, Shaka is not a God figure and maybe a bit over the top in your terminology. Again, I admire your obsession with him and MU hitting the jackpot.  I like Shaka, he appears to be a nice guy, but his problem has been post regular season success.  Yes, he has made the NCAATs, good for him, but as a two seed twice with four current NBA players, has sort of underperformed. Just like at Texas. This season is his and his alone and based upon the first six games, might be very difficult.

That being said, there will be abundant criticism and maybe you can provide you opinion in a civil manner and not continually bring up Wojo as part of your responses.  He has nothing to do with the current team.

What part of my posts hasn't been civil?  And as for involving Wojo, I just would ask that those taking shots at Shaka, evaluate why they were willing to give Wojo 5 years before being critical, when Wojo had accomplished very little, particularly as compared to Shaka?

[#UnleashNigel]

If only we had this level of hatred when wojo was coach!

But yes, Im pretty nervous that all of shakas best players were transfers or wojo recruits. Seems that no one other then chase has developed.

Gold continues to drive me nuts with his absolute refusal to shoot the ball

[CountryRoads]

I just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.

Sadly, I don't see this happening. I don't think fans feel much connection at all to this group. That was one of Shaka's big things. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Shaka Shuttle out of service for the rest of this year.

[Markusquette]

I can appreciate your sentiments here, and you're not wrong.  In my view, though, only Chase and Ben have played major roles in the past.  Chase largely has improved his game/taken a step.  Ben is pretty much neutral with last year, but serviceable.

What we are dealing with is waiting for guys who have never done it before (Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin, Tre, Owens), to be able to take a next step.

So, while we have great roster continuity, we really only had 2 guys who had done it before.  I still feel we will see progress with all of Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin.  Tre may have played his best game at MU last night.

I just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.

Take the freshmen out of the equation for now (Nigel looks solid).

Ben's rebounding is what improved the most. He's still a first big off the bench type of player at best. The lack of depth up front is brutal. Hamilto had a redshirt year and another year to earn playing time and now slots in at starting center by default. He may not be able to cut it in the Horizon league. The fact that Clark doesn't even get a shot over him is also telling. Was really hoping Parham would be a lot more steady and reliable (and as a starter).

Zaide and Tre had enough time and opportunities - they have "done it before." Lowery looks OK. Tre's another Horizon league hopeful.

Currently - 1 true (healthy) PG who is a frosh. Barely any talent up front. Not a single knock down shooter. Hard to close out and win games with those glaring issues.

[Nutty]

that Final Four was 14 years ago and he was run off from his next job at Texas. He's done some great things at MU, but the trajectory is concerning, especially being unable to capitalize on the momentum of the Big East titles and two consecutive #2 seeds.

His teams weren't really able to capitalize on the #2 seeds in those tournaments, either.  One Sweet 16 and 0 wins against single-digit seeded teams is underachieving when you're seeded as a top-8 team both years.

[Galway Eagle]

Guess we'll see. Shaka did recruit Oso heavily while he was at Texas (recognized his talent/potential.)  Oso of course floundered under Wojo his first year - so maybe Shaka is able to coach guys up (like Kam and Stevie too).  Kolek improved a ton under his time as a player with Shaka as coach.

To suggest Shaka can't develop players is pretty suspect in my opinion.

Kam essentially was who he was when he left. Wojo could've coached him to the same level of player. The other guys I'll give you but you also can't ignore there's a ton of busts, improvement but low ceiling, and regressions

Outside of the guys you named plus Chase, and Zaide who has improved?

Ben's pretty much the same player with more rebounds. Every other guy on the roster either improved but is in over their head (Hamilton, Clark) regressed (Sean in limited time, Parham, Owens), or is seemingly a bust (Tre)

I think We saw investment in Kolek/Oso/Kam/Stevie/Jop at the expense of pretty much the whole future. Omax left, Jop slid to his role and Chase slid in there. Now we're a few years down the road and who's the only guy that's a day in and day out threat? Everyone else, to your point, is being asked to take a massive leap and isn't answering the call.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

What does any of that have to do with what's on the court right now? This is not working. When is the last time we were out of at-large consideration before Thanksgiving?

Shaka has had some great moments, but the red flags right now are the same types of signs you saw early on with Wojo, but you're choosing not to see it.

We all want this to work, but it isn't.

Except Wojo didn't have 4 consecutive years of high-level success. It's not a relevant comparison, IMO.

That being said, the current results are not remotely acceptable and Shaka needs to figure it out.