[Anonymous Eagle] It's a Boat With a Hole

[brewcity77]

Andy at Anonymous Eagle does a great job explaining why Marquette has not only had the success they've had in Shaka's first few years, but why this team looks like it's sinking just two weeks into the season.

It's a Boat With a Hole

[The Sultan]

Man, this is a pretty damning table. This is why I can't really call anything I have seen from this team "great" yet. Ross is clearly the best player, but he is a step or two down from "best player" we have seen the last couple of seasons.

[willie warrior]

Andy at Anonymous Eagle does a great job explaining why Marquette has not only had the success they've had in Shaka's first few years, but why this team looks like it's sinking just two weeks into the season.

It's a Boat With a Hole

Speaks volumes.Let the howling begin in 3..2..1..

[Zog from Margo]

Do we know what Oso's BPR was before Shaka arrived at MU and what O-Max's BPR was at Clemson? Just curious.

[jfp61]

Do we know what Oso's BPR was before Shaka arrived at MU and what O-Max's BPR was at Clemson? Just curious.

Both were bad. -0.18 for Oso and -.96 for Omax. But... Both were true freshman. Oso played 66 possessions, Omax 360 possesions. They popped to 4.14 and 2.1 and Sophmores.

I don't care if true freshman are bad. I care if Sophmores, Juniors, Seniors are bad. And it looks worse if our true freshman are already better than them.

Caedin Hamilton RS Sophmore -1.04
Damarius Owens Sophmore -1.08
Sean Jones Senior 0.16
Tre Norman Junior 0.10

Josh Clark is 0.17
Ian Miletic RSing is 0.35
Michael Phillips is 0.67
Sheek Pearson RSing is 0.99
Adrien Stevens is 1.52 (better than Zaide, for now)
Nigel James is 2.19

[Billy Hoyle]

Do we know what Oso's BPR was before Shaka arrived at MU and what O-Max's BPR was at Clemson? Just curious.

Oso played in five games with a total of 38 minutes on the season, missing the final nine games of the season. Whatever his BPR rate was is meaningless. 

[GoldenWarrior11]

The production/value of Kam, Stevie and Jop has unfortunately not been replaced.  Chase and BG are playing at a slightly elevated value from last year, but there hasn't been the necessary jump from any of the returners (other than Parham) to sustain competing on a high-level. 

We have five negative players on offense and two net (offensive/defense) negative players getting regular minutes thus far.  Will be interesting to see how the rotations evolve moving forward. 

[Jay Bee]

Both were bad. -0.18 for Oso and -.96 for Omax. But... Both were true freshman. Oso played 66 possessions, Omax 360 possesions. They popped to 4.14 and 2.1 and Sophmores.

I don't care if true freshman are bad. I care if Sophmores, Juniors, Seniors are bad. And it looks worse if our true freshman are already better than them.

Caedin Hamilton RS Sophmore -1.04
Damarius Owens Sophmore -1.08

wat r goin on

[WolfganghisKhan]

I didn't think we'd be good this year, but being in the hole already sucks. TK/Oso development set unrealistic expectations for future classes.

[jfp61]

wat r goin on

dyslexia and not caring because this is a message board

[Pakuni]

This makes Shaka's decision to start Hamilton all the more perplexing. I get that Gold isn't an ideal 5, but he wasn't a negative player there last year.  Just a flawed one. Even so, it's hard to argue he isn't MU's best option there.
Wouldn't it make more sense just to leave him there and let Parham slide into Jop's slot at the 4?

[GoldenEagles03]

This makes Shaka's decision to start Hamilton all the more perplexing. I get that Gold isn't an ideal 5, but he wasn't a negative player there last year.  Just a flawed one. Even so, it's hard to argue he isn't MU's best option there.
Wouldn't it make more sense just to leave him there and let Parham slide into Jop's slot at the 4?

We should be hitting the portal for a starting center next year but Shaka kind of cornered himself.

It was easy to move on from guys like Itejere and Amadou. Will it be as easy to get a mutual parting of ways when Caedin thinks he's a starting caliber center? That position is an absolute mess for us both now and in the future.

[Zog from Margo]

Both were bad. -0.18 for Oso and -.96 for Omax. But... Both were true freshman. Oso played 66 possessions, Omax 360 possesions. They popped to 4.14 and 2.1 and Sophmores.

I don't care if true freshman are bad. I care if Sophmores, Juniors, Seniors are bad. And it looks worse if our true freshman are already better than them.

Caedin Hamilton RS Sophmore -1.04
Damarius Owens Sophmore -1.08
Sean Jones Senior 0.16
Tre Norman Junior 0.10

Josh Clark is 0.17
Ian Miletic RSing is 0.35
Michael Phillips is 0.67
Sheek Pearson RSing is 0.99
Adrien Stevens is 1.52 (better than Zaide, for now)
Nigel James is 2.19

Thanks. I agree that the numbers are disturbing but they are reflective and not predictive. MU has a bunch of guys being asked to fill roles they never filled before. With scorers and leaders like Kam, Joplin, Kolek, Mitchell, Oso, Ross, etc. on the roster, all of the current juniors and sophomores have been deferring until now. Now they have to step up to fill the void and that likely requires a period of transition. That said, I am not being pollyanna about the current situation. MU has some guys who can step up but they also have several that have not shown the flashes one would expect. Outside of Lowery and Parham, the junior and sophomore classes look shaky. Making the NCAAs looks like a reach.

On a different topic, I do not see shooting 40 3s as a recipe for success for this roster.

[CountryRoads]

We should be hitting the portal for a starting center next year but Shaka kind of cornered himself.

It was easy to move on from guys like Itejere and Amadou. Will it be as easy to get a mutual parting of ways when Caedin thinks he's a starting caliber center? That position is an absolute mess for us both now and in the future.

We're also full for next year, but agree with you. Something will have to give. So many projects. When is the due date?

[GoldenEagles03]

We're also full for next year, but agree with you. Something will have to give. So many projects. When is the due date?

I moreso meant that it should be easy to mutually part ways with guys like Hamilton and Norman. They very clearly aren't ready to handle Big East minutes, and in Norman's case that ship has likely totally sailed. Using their 2 rosters spots (and spots like theirs) in the future to restock the roster with proven talent shouldn't be an issue. It also wouldn't block anyone's development.

Marquette is at a level where they should be aspiring to compete for National Championships. Looking at rosters around the country, they cannot do that without adding outside talent to the guys on their roster that do develop within their method.

[Shooter McGavin]

I didn't think we'd be good this year, but being in the hole already sucks. TK/Oso development set unrealistic expectations for future classes.

Yep.  Perfect storm of high level talent with the holdovers, freshman recruits staying, and rapid portal pickups. 

[muwarrior69]

We're also full for next year, but agree with you. Something will have to give. So many projects. When is the due date?

if the pattern holds, we can expect our 26 freshman to be better than our upper classmen. So there is hope.

[Small Orange Soda]

We should be hitting the portal for a starting center next year but Shaka kind of cornered himself.

It was easy to move on from guys like Itejere and Amadou. Will it be as easy to get a mutual parting of ways when Caedin thinks he's a starting caliber center? That position is an absolute mess for us both now and in the future.

THIS.

RGV is fine, but you also have to accept when you fail. Shaka and staff failed with Itejere and Amadou. They didn't retain or grow. That's when you need to use the portal. When you fail. Hamilton should be playing 10 minutes at best. They didn't fix the holes they created.  That's on them.

[GoldenEagles03]

THIS.

RGV is fine, but you also have to accept when you fail. Shaka and staff failed with Itejere and Amadou. They didn't retain or grow. That's when you need to use the portal. When you fail. Hamilton should be playing 10 minutes at best. They didn't fix the holes they created.  That's on them.

I firmly believe for a program like Marquette to succeed, you NEED to retain. BUT you do not need to retain every single returning player. You need to retain the ones that have a future in impacting winning at this program. The ones that do not also deserve to have their chance elsewhere. Thank you for choosing Marquette and trying, glad we were able to compensate you while you were here. Good luck at your next stop.

[MU82]

I don't disagree. I'd just be surprised if Shaka pays to outbid other programs for a starting center, which likely would be more than what players he recruited will be getting.

It would be a significant departure for him. I guess we'll see.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

So, this off-season when Shaka said, "This year will be a stress test" for his system, this is what he meant.

And pine all you want for transfers, but don't get your hopes up.

Nigel, Adrien, Royce, and Sheek are the young core to build around.  Hopefully they develop as needed.

[Scoop Snoop]

I don't disagree. I'd just be surprised if Shaka pays to outbid other programs for a starting center, which likely would be more than what players he recruited will be getting.

It would be a significant departure for him. I guess we'll see.

And there is the problem. There is no easy way to, umm..., modify his system. It's more than saying "OK, OK. I'll go to the portal" without fallout if he pays a transfer or two more than his recruits.

[tower912]

4 star seven footer red shirting.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

We should be hitting the portal for a starting center next year but Shaka kind of cornered himself.

It was easy to move on from guys like Itejere and Amadou. Will it be as easy to get a mutual parting of ways when Caedin thinks he's a starting caliber center? That position is an absolute mess for us both now and in the future.

There's zero guarantee Caedin starts on Wednesday let alone the rest of this season.  Nor is there any guarantee he starts over Sheek next season. 

[GoldenEagles03]

There's zero guarantee Caedin starts on Wednesday let alone the rest of this season.  Nor is there any guarantee he starts over Sheek next season.

I personally don't want Sheek or Caedin starting next year.

I'd love to have a proven starter starting next year with Sheek backing him up in preparation to become a starter in his Sophomore season. We won't be competing for any championships starting non 5 star Freshman every season.