Buzz Cut

[Farley36]

This thread is the best thing I've read on Scoop in a long time.  Bravo to all you geniuses finally realizing the talent on this team is subpar and this team was always going to be bad.  Next year won't be better unless Shaka is fired or changes his approach to team building.

[Richie]

I'm also not interested in watching a college basketball team filled with transfers. I'd rather watch the Marquette teams of the last 2 years, with their disappointing finishes, than a team filled with one year guys who don't give a crap about the program. The same was true with one and done's. I will have absolutely no connection to that team. In that case I'd rather just watch the NBA, which somehow has landed with more continuity than college ball.

This is where I land, too.

[CTWarrior]

• Two decisive losses to teams made up entirely of transfers and new players. That's not a good result for the RGV plan.

Thus far under Shaka's tenure the players who have been our best players are either
a) Wojo recruits (Oso, Stevie, Cam, Justin Lewis) or
b) transfers (Kolek, O-Max, Morsell, Jop-I know Jop is a weird case since Shaka recruited him to Texas)

I think only Ross fits in well with that group, though Nigel James looks like he may be the real deal.  That's what worries me about RGV.  If we're not going outside for help, we need better players in the first place.  It's early yet, of course, but our continuity is supposed to put us ahead of other teams at this point in the season.[/list]

[The Sultan]

This is where I land, too.

Probably get annoyed with the names on the jerseys too.

[willie warrior]

Yes it is earl

Thus far under Shaka's tenure the players who have been our best players are either
a) Wojo recruits (Oso, Stevie, Cam, Justin Lewis) or
b) transfers (Kolek, O-Max, Morsell, Jop-I know Jop is a weird case since Shaka recruited him to Texas)

I think only Ross fits in well with that group, though Nigel James looks like he may be the real deal.  That's what worries me about RGV.  If we're not going outside for help, we need better players in the first place.  It's early yet, of course, but our continuity is supposed to put us ahead of other teams at this point in the season.[/list]

Yes it is early. It has only been 5 years.

[willie warrior]

Reek

I don't think you understand the complaints. The board understands there are ebbs and flows. But for a program with our aspirations, down years should look like last year. Something in the 7-10 range but good enough to make the tournament and maybe give a good team a scare the first weekend.

If we extrapolate these first four games to a full season, this team will likely have a losing record, and if that happens, it basically puts Shaka on the hot seat. The last time a Marquette coach stayed employed after two losing seasons was Jack Nagle in 1957 (and he was fired after going .500 in 1958). Dukiet and Wojo were both fired after their second losing seasons. Eddie Hickey and Deane were fired after their first losing seasons.

We live in an era of not just win-now, but win every year. I don't think Shaka would be at risk after this season no matter how bad it goes, but if this year doesn't improve and it happens again next year? We're probably in the market for a new coach.

Reekers obsession, Wardle?

[Uncle Rico]

ReekReekers obsession, Wardle?

No, he's 1-3.  My top choice is Chris Beard

[Uncle Rico]

One more note...at the end of the game, some of the student section started chanting "use the portal." While I'm sure that was meant to be aimed at Shaka, that seems like the kind of thing that could start tearing this model apart.

The players heard it and took notice. The message to them is essentially that the students wished some of them weren't there and had been recruited over. It really undermines the RGV approach that Shaka is selling when the fanbase is kneecapping it by calling for the same portal additions the staff has avoided.

One of the dangers to doing things differently than anybody else is when it doesn't work, everyone is going to ask why you didn't do what other successful people/programs are doing. I desperately want Shaka's model to succeed, largely because I think it's better for college basketball than a mercenary model, but if it doesn't, I think things could go south here faster than they would at other programs with similar levels of recent success because it's easy to point at what we're doing differently and focus all the blame there.

Marquette students channeling their Badger football brethren.  Insert Spider-Man pointing meme

[brewcity77]

Chase looks like a star; 4 kenpom game MVPs leads the country. Zaide and Ben are good enough to be supporting starters on a tourney team.

The problems are the 1 and the 5, or whatever the big man complement to Ben is. I love NJ, but you need a second PG even if your first is Kam Jones, and NJ isn't Kam yet. Maybe Sean could be that, but we need to see more G.

Up front, whether it's Parham, Owens, Hamilton, or Clark, someone needs to be able to give productive positive starter minutes. My expectation was that it would be Parham because typically the freshman to sophomore leap is the biggest that players make in their careers and he has the aggressiveness to be a secondary scorer. So far, that hasn't panned out. Owens still looks lost defensively and he's more likely to turn it over than he is to grab a rebound or make a shot. Hamilton's body has transformed but so far his game has not significantly enough to warrant those minutes. And Clark looks like a baby deer freshman big.

Individually, any one of those 4/5 candidates playing like they are would be fine, but when all of them have 2-3 years in the system, you hope that at least 1-2 of them would break through and be more of a net positive in year two than they've shown thus far.

I've defended the model as much as I possibly can. I've looked at the roster for the next few years and can see the potential if these guys pop. But if Zaide is the only star candidate as a senior next year, if Owens and Parham don't leap the way we are hoping, that's suddenly putting a lot on these current freshmen.

Couple that with the reality that other teams will be older and more experienced because they'll buy that experience and it makes this model harder to defend.

It's like Al McGuire said: "When I was losing, they called me nuts. When I was winning, they called me eccentric." Shaka can only cut against the grain of D1 basketball as long as he's winning.

[Viper]

Marquette students channeling their Badger football brethren.  Insert Spider-Man pointing meme

Beard, now this...alignment? Who woulda thunk it!

[Elonsmusk]

It is painful to see this board of hardcore college basketball fans not understand college basketball. Teams like Marquette will always ebb and flow in their quality. We are not a team filled with McDonald's AA. In the last 2 years we lost Kam, Tyler, and Oso to the NBA. Those guys were fucking studs. We also lost Jop, and Stevie, two important starters.

The team is currently made up of guys who have very little experience playing college ball, and even less playing meaningful minutes. This is a growth year. It doesn't matter if it's fucking year 5, year 15, or year 30. Programs and coaches have down years when they graduate that kind of usage rate.

I'm also not interested in watching a college basketball team filled with transfers. I'd rather watch the Marquette teams of the last 2 years, with their disappointing finishes, than a team filled with one year guys who don't give a crap about the program. The same was true with one and done's. I will have absolutely no connection to that team. In that case I'd rather just watch the NBA, which somehow has landed with more continuity than college ball.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but this seemed like the proud sentiment from the fanbase for the last 3 years. One down year while young, talented kids try to figure it out and you're ready to abandon it all?

Great post. 

[vogue65]

I don't see the portal talk as constructive. MU can't compete financially in the portal at the level needed to keep fans happy. Unless some billionaire takes this on as a project, MU is small potatoes as far as resources. Just count MU's alums relative to state schools. I have no problem with Shaka's approach.  It's the only way MU might not be relegated to sloppy seconds. The key is identifying talent and hitting on a high percentage.

the truth hurts.

[vogue65]

Burn redshirts? MU's problem is the opposite. They're playing too many guys. Owens played 10 minutes and had only 2 fouls on the stat line. Norman has contributed more, but not enough to get meaningful minutes. Clark is not ready. Shorten the bench and pull back the press. A bad half court D is only going to be worse if you extend it. Why is Clark picking up Payne outside the 3 pt line? MU is not forcing enough TOs against good teams to justify pressing.

It also might be time to reevaluate the Nevada Smith offense. If you want to launch that many 3s, MU needs to change its recruiting focus.

That's an action plan.
Most of the rest of this conversation is blah, blah, blah,

[Uncle Rico]

Beard, now this...alignment? Who woulda thunk it!

Marquette fans are no different than Badger fans.  That's always been true.

If Beard isn't available, I'd see if we can pry Will Wade out of NC State but they're supposedly infusing a ton of money into his program.  We'll probably have to settle for Wardle or an assistant but it's nice to think big and dump Shaka.

[brewcity77]

I don't see the portal talk as constructive. MU can't compete financially in the portal at the level needed to keep fans happy. Unless some billionaire takes this on as a project, MU is small potatoes as far as resources. Just count MU's alums relative to state schools. I have no problem with Shaka's approach.  It's the only way MU might not be relegated to sloppy seconds. The key is identifying talent and hitting on a high percentage.

Oh please. This is a load of malarkey. If Providence can get the best player on an SEC tourney team and starters from two other high majors with Kim English's track record, I think Shaka with Marquette's resources could do just fine in the portal. Especially with rev share coming.

Does anyone really think we couldn't outbid Providence for Jason Edwards, or Butler for Michael Ajayi, or Seton Hall for Budd Clark? We're not goddamn paupers here begging for scraps. We're a high major team with high major investment and a coach that has a Final Four, NCOY award, and numerous NBA alumni. We aren't in the portal because we make that CHOICE.

It wouldn't be a guarantee to work if we took transfers, but it's not like we can't compete for players if we choose to.

[vogue65]

What do they teach these days in college?
Is it only philosophy and long term strategy?

Zog, whoever you are, my man, you have a solution in the here and now. All the rest is history and prophesy.  No wonder I have taken a sabbatical from muscoop.

I notice that some of the real nasty folks have left, thank God.

[WhiteTrash]

Portal is different now, mostly $$$ driven.

And you don't think HS recruiting is?