Hoosier beat down

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Really? There are potential downsides with HS recruits, so ignore that strategy also?

I'll concede obvious, transfers are not 100% guaranteed to be successful. 

 

There's risk with every approach and I never said otherwise, did I? 

Not sure why it's so difficult for you to comprehend the downside of Shaka abandoning everything he's preached to every recruit snd their families. It's not complicated.

[MUCam]

There's risk with every approach and I never said otherwise, did I? 

Not sure why it's so difficult for you to comprehend the downside of Shaka abandoning everything he's preached to every recruit snd their families. It's not complicated.

This. Shaka has embraced (and sold) an idea. The idea has become symbolic to Marquette and Shaka's approach.

It would take a lot, I think, for him to abandon it at the first sign of trouble. One horrible display against Indiana is not going to change it.

I'd say, so far, Shaka's success at Marquette has solidified his commitment to his vision and the "idea."

Time will tell. Either the idea in its purest form (no transfers ever — which by the way, he's never said is part of the vision) will succeed, or he will adapt, or he will fail and we move on.

For now, however, I cannot fault someone committed to a vision that is much more long-term looking than the immediate short-term benefit of, for example, grabbing a PG this past year in the portal. He has to stay true to his vision until results force him to adapt. I applaud that and support that even if I think some transfers might help in some years.

[WhiteTrash]

There's risk with every approach and I never said otherwise, did I? 

Not sure why it's so difficult for you to comprehend the downside of Shaka abandoning everything he's preached to every recruit snd their families. It's not complicated.

Your position would be valid if Shaka is telling HS recruits he will never use the portal. Agreed that he would rightfully be called a liar.

Do we really think Shaka is doing that?

[tower912]

Your position would be valid if Shaka is telling HS recruits he will never use the portal. Agreed that he would rightfully be called a liar.

Do we really think Shaka is doing that?

The words of the recruits and their families seem to indicate they are being told he will not use the portal to recruit over them.   And that is a selling point.

[WhiteTrash]

The words of the recruits and their families seem to indicate they are being told he will not use the portal to recruit over them.   And that is a selling point.

I really like Shaka's attempt to be different.

I don't like that he has shut the door on a significant talent pool.

If his strategy fails, he is going to lose all credibility if he brings in transfers. That, I'm afraid, would be the end.

[tower912]

He has chosen his hill.

[Newsdreams]

He has chosen his hill.

Hilltopper!

[1318WWells]

The words of the recruits and their families seem to indicate they are being told he will not use the portal to recruit over them.   And that is a selling point.

I get saying this to the top 100ish recruits. But when you have a glaring need at center last year (I love Ben just think he's playing out of position most of the time), wouldn't it have been ok to bring in a 1 year transfer over the two recruits you took a flyer on?

We all agree that Oso developed exceptionally during his time at MU. I think a vital part of that development was banging at practice every day against Theo John and then Kur Kuath his first two years. You could tell that many of those moves around the basket were developed avoiding Kur's shot blocking ability. He was then unfazed when attacking the basket against the likes of Edey and Kalkbrenner.

Even the other players honed their ability to attack a shot blocker.

All reports the last two summers were that Caeden was dominating and was ready to contribute. Could it have appeared that way because he had no Theo or Kur or Oso ahead of him? Would he have been better served banging against a 4th or 5th year transfer in practice last year?

Would that transfer center stealing 8-10 minutes a game have allowed Ben to maybe stay a little healthier at the end of the season?

Same at point guard last year. Although I'll concede that Shaka was anticipating Sean's healthy return last season.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Your position would be valid if Shaka is telling HS recruits he will never use the portal. Agreed that he would rightfully be called a liar.

Do we really think Shaka is doing that?

I doubt Shaka would ever speak in absolutes like "never" and "always". However, if we take his words at face value, and why wouldn't we, using the portal in the manner some here think he should isn't going to happen.

I think there would need to be very specific circumstances for Shaka to bring a transfer in, especially one that would be expected to play a significant role immediately.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I get saying this to the top 100ish recruits. But when you have a glaring need at center last year (I love Ben just think he's playing out of position most of the time), wouldn't it have been ok to bring in a 1 year transfer over the two recruits you took a flyer on?

We all agree that Oso developed exceptionally during his time at MU. I think a vital part of that development was banging at practice every day against Theo John and then Kur Kuath his first two years. You could tell that many of those moves around the basket were developed avoiding Kur's shot blocking ability. He was then unfazed when attacking the basket against the likes of Edey and Kalkbrenner.

Even the other players honed their ability to attack a shot blocker.

All reports the last two summers were that Caeden was dominating and was ready to contribute. Could it have appeared that way because he had no Theo or Kur or Oso ahead of him? Would he have been better served banging against a 4th or 5th year transfer in practice last year?

Would that transfer center stealing 8-10 minutes a game have allowed Ben to maybe stay a little healthier at the end of the season?

Same at point guard last year. Although I'll concede that Shaka was anticipating Sean's healthy return last season.

But was there a one-year transfer available who would have been willing to come to play only 8-10 MPG while still being productive in those limited minutes?

That's where I think this falls apart a bit. People just assume whatever kind of role we might want to fill will be available and willing to come. I imagine most transfers are looking for a larger role and more minutes.

[Uncle Rico]

But was there a one-year transfer available who would have been willing to come to play only 8-10 MPG while still being productive in those limited minutes?

That's where I think this falls apart a bit. People just assume whatever kind of role we might want to fill will be available and willing to come. I imagine most transfers are looking for a larger role and more minutes.

It's easy to construct a roster sitting on the couch and eating Cheetos

[Scoop Snoop]

But was there a one-year transfer available who would have been willing to come to play only 8-10 MPG while still being productive in those limited minutes?

That's where I think this falls apart a bit. People just assume whatever kind of role we might want to fill will be available and willing to come. I imagine most transfers are looking for a larger role and more minutes.

Agree, but I would add one more factor, and it is a huge one-money. The famous line from the 1996 movie Jerry McGuire is still apropos-

Show Me the Money!

[Vander Blue Man Group]

It's easy to construct a roster sitting on the couch and eating Cheetos

What about in the basement with your Warriors pennant?

[Galway Eagle]

I get everyone's point about how portal players can flop (the players have been named above).  But it depends on where you go shopping and who you going shopping for. Going after  Chartouney, Wrightsil, etc was like shopping at goodwill.  Kolek (Atlantic 10 rookie of the year) Darryl Morsell (Big Ten defensive player of the year), Omax a 6'8" hyper athletic kid from The ACC, Kur Kueth (solid fourth year center in the Big 12, role player) etc were more like shopping at a real department store.  Were they elite brands?  No.  But certainly better pedigree than Chartouny and Wrightsil.  Listing the shitty players that MU took a flyer on that haven't worked out for MU is disingenuous at best and distracts from an honest conversation.

Again, don't care what Shaka and MU do.  I will be there to support the team and will hope for the best.

Agree with Snoop, let's win Wednesday and really get right against Buzz on Saturday! 

The joke wrote itself


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/awards/men/atlantic-10-roy.html

[The Sultan]

The joke wrote itself

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/awards/men/atlantic-10-roy.html

Yeah Chartouny was more accomplished a player than Tyler was when they both got here. Chartouny wasn't awful, but his game just didn't rise like Tyler's did.

[Uncle Rico]

What about in the basement with your Warriors pennant?

It's exhausting, because we have had these discussions ad nauseam about the portal and I always ask, "who?".  The discussion never gets off the ground about "who?", so basically, it's the want Shaka to do something to do something argument and any discussion over who always fizzles.

Shaka should be held accountable for having a team that needs to make baskets to play the way he wants this team to play.  That is on his staff and him.  They can't shoot below average to play as aggressive as it appears he wants them to play on defense. 

The idea the portal is a panacea flies in the face of reality.  There are as many poorly assembled rosters full of transfers as there are good rosters full of transfers.  One bad transfer class and the same people currently blasting this roster would blast that roster.  It's the nature of the beast.

I'm sure Creighton scoop is in free fall this morning and asking questions about McDermott's desire now that he's in retirement mode and about this roster he constructed.  It's the nature of the beast.

[Scoop Snoop]

Drawing conclusions from the one major team that has not used the portal vs. all the other major conference teams that have is ridiculous. Even if 4-5 other teams took Shaka's approach, there still is not enough data to reach conclusions. Perhaps if that number increases to 10, an overall evaluation of portal vs. no portal could be rationally discussed based upon the teams' performances. Even then, it would take several seasons to evaluate.

I have no background as a statistician, but I think drawing conclusions here results in whatever "conclusion" you choose.

[79Warrior]

I really like Shaka's attempt to be different.

I don't like that he has shut the door on a significant talent pool.

If his strategy fails, he is going to lose all credibility if he brings in transfers. That, I'm afraid, would be the end.

No he won't. If it doesn't work he will adapt. Way too much drama over this.

[Its DJOver]

This reads like a summer 2022/23/24 thread.  Same people have the same complaints, and there's the same explanation for it all. I wonder when people will learn.

[rocky_warrior]

Same people have the same complaints, and there's the same explanation for it all. I wonder when people will learn.

It will probably happen every time Marquette gets the sh*t smacked out of it by a team with contributors from the transfer portal.

Speaking of which, Painter seems to have hit with his two pickups from the portal, while maintaining a bunch of continuity.

[Uncle Rico]

Drawing conclusions from the one major team that has not used the portal vs. all the other major conference teams that have is ridiculous. Even if 4-5 other teams took Shaka's approach, there still is not enough data to reach conclusions. Perhaps if that number increases to 10, an overall evaluation of portal vs. no portal could be rationally discussed based upon the teams' performances. Even then, it would take several seasons to evaluate.

I have no background as a statistician, but I think drawing conclusions here results in whatever "conclusion" you choose.

Basically. 

None of us know what the future landscape will look like either.  Something will be done regarding transfers.  Guys bouncing from team-to-team isn't going to remain in place.  It's far more likely some type of limit will be put into place in the near future or some type of "guardrails" protecting rosters.  It's just a matter of how the P4 gets there.  It'll roll down hill from there.

[Jay Bee]

Speaking of which, Painter seems to have hit with his two pickups from the portal, while maintaining a bunch of continuity.

Sure, but how bad is their culture suffering?

[wadesworld]

Looks like we talk about focusing on player development, that the future will be better, that just wait until our freshman progress or this guy or that guy improves dramatically. While this may happen should we not expect periodic lean years?

Meanwhile, should we not expect UConn, Creighton and likely St. John's performance to be more consistent than ours year in year out given their use of the portal?

Can we agree that the use of the portal does make a difference given the portals ability to plug weaknesses in a team?

I admire Shaka's principals, his support of player development but to think most players will develop to the highest levels, to be among the best in the country, is simply an unrealistic expectation. Dream what we want but not using the portal is going to hurt us periodically.   

We can expect UCONN and St. John's to be more consistent than ours because they have better coaches.  There are 7 active head coaches in D1 college basketball that have won a D1 national championship, and those program shave two of them (and both have won 2, although Rick's have both been vacated).

Creighton?  We'll see.  We've been at least as consistent as them since Shaka has arrived, and it's not like their first game against a high major opponent went a ton better than Marquette's did, even with Doug's superior willingness to take in transfers.

[The Sultan]

We can expect UCONN and St. John's to be more consistent than ours because they have better coaches.  There are 7 active head coaches in D1 college basketball that have won a D1 national championship, and those program shave two of them (and both have won 2, although Rick's have both been vacated).

Creighton?  We'll see.  We've been at least as consistent as them since Shaka has arrived, and it's not like their first game against a high major opponent went a ton better than Marquette's did, even with Doug's superior willingness to take in transfers.

Rick's championship with Kentucky has not been vacated.

[Galway Eagle]

Doug's superior willingness to take in transfers.

I mean the NBA doesn't have the tradition of development and loyalty that the college ranks does and I don't think he has much say in the King's roster construction.