Hoosier beat down

[79Warrior]

First, they aren't "kids," it's not a "job," and they aren't employees.

Second, a scholarship is renewable each year. It has been for years even before the players were compensated. Nothing has changed from before. Coaches have always had the opportunity to move on from a player.

Third, you've just discovered a great way to other programs to recruit against Marquette.

Well, the University is paying them via the Excellence fund. How are they not  considered employees then?

[Viper]

The only reason he would ever become less calcified on this topic is because the V is the most important part of the RGV triangle.

If the V doesn't come as planned, the R and G aspects will become less calcified and he will do what he thinks is necessary to win more the following season, imo.

If he wins enough to dance history has shown there is very low to no probability that he deviates, and you can't blame him

correct. If, however, this season and next one or two are .500 seasons or worse and if Shaka doesn't adjust his roster development approach as a result, MU would move on, I would think...if winning is the objective. Hopefully Shaka's current approach works if only because I really like not taking transfers and absolutely want Shaka to keep on keepin'on. (lots of if's😊)

[WhiteTrash]

OK, set the bar really low. Now I at least get your argument.

OK, set the bar really low. Now I at least get your argument.

The whole point of my response was to avoid discussing where the bar is set. The opinions on who is a stud and how much to pay them are so varied that it would be an exercise in futility to define who and who not to recruit as a transfer, until there is a specific target.

The joy of Scoop is that when someone suggest a transfer strategy, a half dozen posters hammer them with quotes and stats that "proves" Shaka will not take transfers. But if someone claims that Shaka will not take transfers, there are a half dozen posters who hammer them with quotes and stats that says Shaka does use the transfer portal.

[rocky_warrior]

The joy of Scoop is that when someone suggest a transfer strategy, a half dozen posters hammer them with quotes and stats that "proves" Shaka will not take transfers. But if someone claims that Shaka will not take transfers, there are a half dozen posters who hammer them with quotes and stats that says Shaka does use the transfer portal.

The so-called 'Transfer Portal' is a purely fictional concept, likely invented by rival conferences to sow discord. All 'transfers' you observe are merely players embarking on pre-planned, sabbatical world tours before deciding to return to a completely different school. The NCAA strongly supports these spontaneous, global educational pilgrimages.

[WhiteTrash]

The so-called 'Transfer Portal' is a purely fictional concept, likely invented by rival conferences to sow discord. All 'transfers' you observe are merely players embarking on pre-planned, sabbatical world tours before deciding to return to a completely different school. The NCAA strongly supports these spontaneous, global educational pilgrimages.

So a version of the BYU model?  I dig it!

[The Sultan]

Well, the University is paying them via the Excellence fund. How are they not  considered employees then?

They supposedly are not considered employees. IFAIK, that situation hasn't been sorted out because if the ARE employees, that opens up the University to all sorts of issues. Worker's compensation insurance for instance.

Regardless, the point is that Marquette, as well as everyone else, can easily move on from players if they wish.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

No, he can bring in one or two transfers to fill holes and still do his RGV model. If he's going to accept mediocrity just to stick with his RGV then maybe he's not the coach MU needs going forward. Look at what happened with Dabo and Clemson - from national title winner to mediocrity because he refused to bring in transfers or give NIL.

I would hope Shaka would recognize the need to adapt to the changing college landscape. Would Militic have not committed if Shaka said, "not only are we going to redshirt you, but I'm going to bring in a player similar to you for the year you are not playing?"

Who has accepted mediocrity?

This is just more short-sighted, impatient, hyperbolic nonsense. 

[Shooter McGavin]

I poked fun at Xavier for being on the wrong end of an ass kicking last night because the announcers mentioned that Xavier had 12 transfers and a freshman on their team. Many scoopers pushing for going to the portal are SO sure that it would "improve" Marquette's team (and it might) but seem oblivious to the fact that the reverse is also a possibility, OR that there would be no change.

My source at Xavier has informed me that Little Pitino has set up a meeting with Shaka to learn about his system. The deal includes Pitino taking Sean off Shaka's hands.

You are taking the extreme side of the argument for using the portal (15 new players every year) to make your point.  That's not hard to do.  There is not a revelation or new thought with that argument. I don't think I have read anyone say that. 

I have no stake in this argument.  I am ok with the current situation even if we take a step back for a year.  But if Shaka wanted to fill a hole or two with transfers under certain circumstances I'd be ok with it as well. 

[Billy Hoyle]

Who has accepted mediocrity?

This is just more short-sighted, impatient, hyperbolic nonsense. 

I'm not saying we have, but if we are not competing for conference titles and deep NCAA runs and insists on sticking with RVG (like Dabo did) then I'd consider that accepting mediocrity.

[tower912]

The portal is a zero sum game.  Equal amounts of winners and losers.

[WhiteTrash]

The portal is a zero sum game.  Equal amounts of winners and losers.

Not for the P5.

[Scoop Snoop]

You are taking the extreme side of the argument for using the portal (15 new players every year) to make your point.  That's not hard to do.  There is not a revelation or new thought with that argument. I don't think I have read anyone say that. 

I have no stake in this argument.  I am ok with the current situation even if we take a step back for a year.  But if Shaka wanted to fill a hole or two with transfers under certain circumstances I'd be ok with it as well. 

You are taking the extreme side of the argument for using the portal (15 new players every year) to make your point.  That's not hard to do.  There is not a revelation or new thought with that argument. I don't think I have read anyone say that. 

I have no stake in this argument.  I am ok with the current situation even if we take a step back for a year.  But if Shaka wanted to fill a hole or two with transfers under certain circumstances I'd be ok with it as well. 

I simply am looking for an acknowledgement that there can be downsides or neutral effects to going to the portal. That is what seems to be ignored repeatedly. I make no apologies for offering an admittedly extreme example if that is what it takes. I think there is an extreme assumption that the team would be "improved" and my offering an extreme counter argument is a rebuttal.

[MU82]

The whole point of my response was to avoid discussing where the bar is set. The opinions on who is a stud and how much to pay them are so varied that it would be an exercise in futility to define who and who not to recruit as a transfer, until there is a specific target.

The joy of Scoop is that when someone suggest a transfer strategy, a half dozen posters hammer them with quotes and stats that "proves" Shaka will not take transfers. But if someone claims that Shaka will not take transfers, there are a half dozen posters who hammer them with quotes and stats that says Shaka does use the transfer portal.

C'mon, you know basketball. You know which players are and aren't studs.

For example, Owen Freeman was considered a "stud" when he left Iowa and entered the transfer portal. Lots of Scoopers were dreaming that Shaka would make tweaks to his philosophy and go for him.

But to get any stud like that, Shaka would have to do more than just tweak his philosophy. He would have to pay that player more - perhaps substantially more - than he is paying any returning player. And I just don't see it happening. Do you?

Again, I am not among those who says Shaka would never consider a transfer. I could see him bringing in a role player or two to fill a perceived need. It sure would have been nice if he had brought in a good backup PG before last season, which would have given Kam both rest and some time off the ball.

[WhiteTrash]

C'mon, you know basketball. You know which players are and aren't studs.

For example, Owen Freeman was considered a "stud" when he left Iowa and entered the transfer portal. Lots of Scoopers were dreaming that Shaka would make tweaks to his philosophy and go for him.

But to get any stud like that, Shaka would have to do more than just tweak his philosophy. He would have to pay that player more - perhaps substantially more - than he is paying any returning player. And I just don't see it happening. Do you?

Again, I am not among those who says Shaka would never consider a transfer. I could see him bringing in a role player or two to fill a perceived need. It sure would have been nice if he had brought in a good backup PG before last season, which would have given Kam both rest and some time off the ball.

I guess I would say that I'm not expecting Shaka and MU to go toe to toe with blue bloods on transfers. I think the thoughtful transfers makes sense. As you say, a backup PG or a dedicated rebounder or shooter, etc. I trust Shaka to look at lower level schools to find some impactful players. Kolek - like.

I still don't have an issue with Shaka trying a different approach, but you have to adapt in major college sports. I trust he will.

[panda]

I poked fun at Xavier for being on the wrong end of an ass kicking last night because the announcers mentioned that Xavier had 12 transfers and a freshman on their team. Many scoopers pushing for going to the portal are SO sure that it would "improve" Marquette's team (and it might) but seem oblivious to the fact that the reverse is also a possibility, OR that there would be no change.

My source at Xavier has informed me that Little Pitino has set up a meeting with Shaka to learn about his system. The deal includes Pitino taking Sean off Shaka's hands.

Who is asking for a roster full of transfers? We need one maybe two and we have a more competitive roster in an otherwise down year.

[Jay Bee]

The portal is a zero sum game.  Equal amounts of winners and losers.

Categorically false. There are many who enter the portal and go nowhere.

I'm waiting to see first semester GPAs before calling the nonconf a success or failure.

In the grand scheme of things, it's just basketball. Let's relax. Poor Tucker Carlson is getting mauled by demons, guys.

[MU82]

I guess I would say that I'm not expecting Shaka and MU to go toe to toe with blue bloods on transfers. I think the thoughtful transfers makes sense. As you say, a backup PG or a dedicated rebounder or shooter, etc. I trust Shaka to look at lower level schools to find some impactful players. Kolek - like.

I still don't have an issue with Shaka trying a different approach, but you have to adapt in major college sports. I trust he will.

Then you and I are most in agreement. Sounds like you're mostly in agreement with Shaka, too.