Hoosier beat down

[MUbiz]

Sorry double post for some reason

[MUBurrow]

The sophomores? Parham, Owens and Hamilton? Man, I hope so...but I'm not sure about that.

I think that by the start of the conference season 2026-2027, Parham really puts it all together.  I know it feels a long way off, but I think he's going to continue to struggle a bit as a role player. Once he's in a spot where his usage % goes up, I think he gets better and better.  Hamilton I think will just continue to improve and be an extremely solid frontcourt presence as an upper classman.  Owens remains a bit of a wildcard. 

[willie warrior]

This game was like getting hit by a truck. Didn't see it coming. What a big difference it makes to have ten transfers of older guys that are getting paid. They played like a semi pro team who learned a lot from playing in Europe. Its disappointing and sad that college basketball has morphed away from student athletes to semi pro ball players. It's two different games. I know I will continue to root for Marquette.

What Sleazeball Pitino said.

[willie warrior]

not sure what Maryland presents, but Purdue, Oklahoma and Wisconsin present experienced, talented teams. If...big IF, MU enters conference play with 4 L's, not sure they play much better than .500 ball on the season. If so, doesn't it force the HC to rethink how a roster is assembled? MU has a roster of solid guys, it seems. Rep the University at a high level. BUT, taking the no-offer-development-guy will have to change. Or, accept what it is. 

Shaka won't rethink that

[GoldenEagles03]

I think that by the start of the conference season 2026-2027, Parham really puts it all together.  I know it feels a long way off, but I think he's going to continue to struggle a bit as a role player. Once he's in a spot where his usage % goes up, I think he gets better and better.  Hamilton I think will just continue to improve and be an extremely solid frontcourt presence as an upper classman.  Owens remains a bit of a wildcard. 

I like what you said about Royce here. I think he should be getting major minutes. He has impact starter potential.Let him try to reach it!

A loss like yesterday can help you learn a lot about a team. It can also help the players learn a lot about themselves.

One game at a time but there is a path to being 6-1 headed back for another go around in Chicago. Saturday could be a huge swing game for the season.

[Viper]

No, a potentially disappointing year will not force Shaka to reconsider his current roster construction philosophy, nor should it. 

With 15 scholarships and redshirts available, taking development guys won't change either, nor should it. 

Yes, yesterday really sucked and it's completely fair to have concerns and questions.  But I'm seeing an awful lot of overreaction and hyperbole right now, which I guess shouldn't be that surprising. 

I believe in the talent of Parham and Owens, the freshman class looks good, next year's incoming class looks good, and Shaka is in on a lot of talent right now.  Multiple high-ceiling recruits have stated that his retention philosophy is a major reason in why they've committed to Marquette. 

Even some of the best programs have down years and, perhaps this will be one of ours, but I still see the arrow pointing up in regard to the future.

... "No, a potentially disappointing year will not force Shaka to reconsider his current roster construction philosophy, nor should it.

With 15 scholarships and redshirts available, taking development guys won't change either, nor should it." Why? As a hypothetical, things go south on the season, would adjusting, i.e. go the portal route, move on from a player or two, not happen? Does it matter how many scholly guys you have if player talent doesn't result in wins?

[MU82]

Sean -28  - YIKES
Ross -15
Parham -12
Gold -17
Hamilton -6
Lowery -10
Clark -2
Stevens -13

Nigel James only positive at +8

Even as limiting as 1-game plus/minus is as an evaluation tool, this is eye-opening.

[mileskishnish72]

Sean -28  - YIKES
Ross -15
Parham -12
Gold -17
Hamilton -6
Lowery -10
Clark -2
Stevens -13

Nigel James only positive at +8

Yes, +/- has its limitations, doesn't always give a good reflection of real events, blah, blah, blah.

Still and all -28 compared to +8? Shaka has to take a long look at what's going on. And,
IMO those numbers were pretty reflective of what we were seeing. I agree that it's disappointing to see 22 playing so badly, but what we are getting is the Bad Sean with the same flaws we've seen before. I'm not one of those "Get him out of there" guys and I am
confident that Shaka will give Sean a long leash, but it will be interesting to watch the
minutes as the season progresses.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

... "No, a potentially disappointing year will not force Shaka to reconsider his current roster construction philosophy, nor should it.

With 15 scholarships and redshirts available, taking development guys won't change either, nor should it." Why? As a hypothetical, things go south on the season, would adjusting, i.e. go the portal route, move on from a player or two, not happen? Does it matter how many scholly guys you have if player talent doesn't result in wins?

Why? With 15 scholarships, you have a lot more flexibility to take a developmental guy like a Clark or Hamilton, redshirt them, and have them in the program for 5 years.  There are more than enough roster spots where taking 1 developmental guy every year or two shouldn't impede the program from building really good teams. 

Hamilton has 3 years left and Clark has 4.  Might it make sense to see how their careers turn out before whining about taking developmental guys?  If the # of scholarships was more limited, that criticism would make a lot more sense to me but not with 15.

And no, why would one potential down year cause Shaka to abandon everything he believes in and has sold recruits on regarding the Marquette program?  How do you think he's going to look to the returning and incoming players? 

Jesus, these overreactions are something else. 

[WhiteTrash]

Why? With 15 scholarships, you have a lot more flexibility to take a developmental guy like a Clark or Hamilton, redshirt them, and have them in the program for 5 years.  There are more than enough roster spots where taking 1 developmental guy every year or two shouldn't impede the program from building really good teams. 

Hamilton has 3 years left and Clark has 4.  Might it make sense to see how their careers turn out before whining about taking developmental guys?  If the # of scholarships was more limited, that criticism would make a lot more sense to me but not with 15.

And no, why would one potential down year cause Shaka to abandon everything he believes in and has sold recruits on regarding the Marquette program?  How do you think he's going to look to the returning and incoming players? 

Jesus, these overreactions are something else. 

I think you are guilty of an equally misguided overreaction to suggestions MU use the transfer portal. I think Shaka is a great, yes great, coach and he will continue to grow and adjust as all great coaches do. I think he will adjust by adding a few transfers going forward in addition to his recruit and develop strategy. 2 time National champion Dabo Sweeney has learned that eschewing the transfer portal does not work and I believe Shaka will too.

I still like what he tried and believe it was a valid attempt to build a roster, but sometimes things don't work so you learn and adapt.

[tower912]

15 scholarships filled for next season. 

Shak... Shak...Shakagone, let me rock you, let me rock you Shakagone  ...

I don't see him running off players.   Coach Smart is too invested in his process.

The only hope for the portal lovers is if 1 or more of the 10 players between 6'3 and 6'8 looks at the numbers situation and doesn't like their chances.

[jfp61]

15 scholarships filled for next season. 

Shak... Shak...Shakagone, let me rock you, let me rock you Shakagone  ...

I don't see him running off players.   Coach Smart is too invested in his process.

The only hope for the portal lovers is if 1 or more of the 10 players between 6'3 and 6'8 looks at the numbers situation and doesn't like their chances.

I mean... if you bench 2 juniors for freshmen who are as good as them they might leave. You can be invested in the process and still do the smart thing. (play young guys if the are good/or better than your guys)

[Galway Eagle]

15 scholarships filled for next season. 

Shak... Shak...Shakagone, let me rock you, let me rock you Shakagone  ...

I don't see him running off players.  Coach Smart is too invested in his process.

The only hope for the portal lovers is if 1 or more of the 10 players between 6'3 and 6'8 looks at the numbers situation and doesn't like their chances.

Didn't Ellis, Wrightsil, Amadou, and itejere essentially get run off? I agree I don't think he will, but part of me wonders if he essentially doubled down on his core for a few good years, people noticed and then he adopted it as a feature of his iteration of the MU program.

[tower912]

This season you are going to see that.  It has already been seen.  It is possible that members of this team follow Ellis, Itejere, and Amadou. 

But Shaka isn't going to push them.

[tower912]

If Itejere had been pushed, I doubt his HS coach would have called about Phillips.

[The Sultan]

Didn't Ellis and itejere essentially get run off? I agree I don't think he will, but part of me wonders if he essentially doubled down on his core for a few good years, people noticed and then he adopted it as a feature of his iteration of the MU program.

What do you mean by run off? I believe in both cases that they could have stayed with the program had they be confortable with a likely diminished role. I don't think either were told they had to leave.

[panda]

I like what you said about Royce here. I think he should be getting major minutes. He has impact starter potential.Let him try to reach it!

A loss like yesterday can help you learn a lot about a team. It can also help the players learn a lot about themselves.

One game at a time but there is a path to being 6-1 headed back for another go around in Chicago. Saturday could be a huge swing game for the season.

Relationships/culture be damned - if I have the pedigree of parham and sit behind Caedin Hamilton, I'm high tailing out to greener pastures on the first train from town.

[The Sultan]

Relationships/culture be damned - if I have the pedigree of parham and sit behind Caedin Hamilton, I'm high tailing out to greener pastures on the first train from town.

Royce Parham averages more minutes than Caedin Hamilton, but yes, I understand what you are saying.

[Galway Eagle]

What do you mean by run off? I believe in both cases that they could have stayed with the program had they be confortable with a likely diminished role. I don't think either were told they had to leave.

Didn't we over sign recruits? We needed people to leave if I recall correctly.

[wadesworld]

Relationships/culture be damned - if I have the pedigree of parham and sit behind Caedin Hamilton, I'm high tailing out to greener pastures on the first train from town.

If I'm Parham I'm learning how to stay in front of my man defensively and learning defensive rotations.  After I figure that out I'll worry about the minutes I'm getting.

[Shooter McGavin]

Relationships/culture be damned - if I have the pedigree of parham and sit behind Caedin Hamilton, I'm high tailing out to greener pastures on the first train from town.

That will be the same case for Nigel James if Sean Jones doesn't start to become more impactful.  Shaka is no dummy as evidenced by starting Nigel in the second half yesterday. 

[MUbiz]

I think you are guilty of an equally misguided overreaction to suggestions MU use the transfer portal. I think Shaka is a great, yes great, coach and he will continue to grow and adjust as all great coaches do. I think he will adjust by adding a few transfers going forward in addition to his recruit and develop strategy. 2 time National champion Dabo Sweeney has learned that eschewing the transfer portal does not work and I believe Shaka will too.

I still like what he tried and believe it was a valid attempt to build a roster, but sometimes things don't work so you learn and adapt.

IMHO Marcus Freeman needs to be the role model for Shaka and the xfer portal. Freeman has said "We will not major in the xfer portal, but we will minor in it" ie taking xfers when they make sense to take. It does not mean 8-10 new guys every year.

[The Sultan]

Didn't we over sign recruits? We needed people to leave if I recall correctly.

When Emarion announced his transfer, that is what was being said. However OMax declared for the draft like ten days later.

So I guess the questions are, when did Emarion make his decision? When did OMax tell the staff he was leaving?

But even they didn't sign Caedin until the summer.

[MUDPT]

Scored 77 points in 76 possessions. The live ball turnovers killed them though defensively. I was sitting on the end and you can see the "Nevada" offense, lots of open lanes for drives with lots of free throws. Defensively, Devries gets his 4th, they are up 13 and MU went to that 3-2 high zone and just let them dribble and got a 3 and a dunk on back to back possessions. Thought they could have come out and pressured IU more at that point.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I think you are guilty of an equally misguided overreaction to suggestions MU use the transfer portal. I think Shaka is a great, yes great, coach and he will continue to grow and adjust as all great coaches do. I think he will adjust by adding a few transfers going forward in addition to his recruit and develop strategy. 2 time National champion Dabo Sweeney has learned that eschewing the transfer portal does not work and I believe Shaka will too.

I still like what he tried and believe it was a valid attempt to build a roster, but sometimes things don't work so you learn and adapt.

Except I'm not opposed to Shaka using the portal.  My point is he's not going too overhaul his approach if faced with adversity. To suggest he do so at this point is just way too short-sighted, IMO.   

Also, it's been 3 games.  We don't actually know what has worked or not worked yet. 

Additionally, if the team doesn't meet expectations this season, that is not proof his process/approach doesn't work.