Louvre Robbery

[Shaka Shart]

It's not the same thing and we're talking about movies. 

I'm talking about a movie too

[Uncle Rico]

I'm talking about a movie too

I consider it a documentary and it's a great movie because the bad guys won

[wadesworld]

Inside Man

[Shaka Shart]

Inside Man

Buy me dinner first

[JWags85]

Lot of really interesting facets to this robbery (no pun intended).  But the biggest tragedy, if it was indeed originals that were stolen and won't be recovered, is it nearly ALWAYS leads to the end of the items and/or precious stones.

Hundreds of years ago, even decades, things would get stolen and then randomly appear in a collection when someone died, a house of a collector was sold, or even when items would reappear for sale.  Some of the worlds largest or most famous diamonds were "lost" and then found that way.  But there is no rich or notable collector that either wants to buy something this hot that they can't display or even if its broken up, the technology is such that the stones will be easily able to be traced back to the stolen item.

So what ends up happening is the stones are recut.  So a magnificent huge historical emerald or ruby or diamond that size of a golf ball gets cut into numerous smaller stones and sold that way.  Diamonds can still be tricky when it comes to origin and provenance, especially in stones of that size, as big stones are pretty well known once they come out of the ground, much less polished.  But the colored gemstones trade is literally the Wild West.  A massive rough or polished diamond comes out and a big deal is made of the mine where it was found and who bought and cut the rough.  Yet every year massive colored gemstones appear and MAYBE they know what country it came from, cause it passes through so many hands going to market.

Hopefully they are found, but every day that passes, the chances of recovery plummets.  The irony is those stones, especially the emeralds, are going to end up as smaller stones in the hands of random every day consumers who don't know that their 1-2 carat emerald recut from a stolen necklace commissioned by Napoleon is any different than another emerald in the store mined normally in Colombia.

[Uncle Rico]

Lot of really interesting facets to this robbery (no pun intended).  But the biggest tragedy, if it was indeed originals that were stolen and won't be recovered, is it nearly ALWAYS leads to the end of the items and/or precious stones.

Hundreds of years ago, even decades, things would get stolen and then randomly appear in a collection when someone died, a house of a collector was sold, or even when items would reappear for sale.  Some of the worlds largest or most famous diamonds were "lost" and then found that way.  But there is no rich or notable collector that either wants to buy something this hot that they can't display or even if its broken up, the technology is such that the stones will be easily able to be traced back to the stolen item.

So what ends up happening is the stones are recut.  So a magnificent huge historical emerald or ruby or diamond that size of a golf ball gets cut into numerous smaller stones and sold that way.  Diamonds can still be tricky when it comes to origin and provenance, especially in stones of that size, as big stones are pretty well known once they come out of the ground, much less polished.  But the colored gemstones trade is literally the Wild West.  A massive rough or polished diamond comes out and a big deal is made of the mine where it was found and who bought and cut the rough.  Yet every year massive colored gemstones appear and MAYBE they know what country it came from, cause it passes through so many hands going to market.

Hopefully they are found, but every day that passes, the chances of recovery plummets.  The irony is those stones, especially the emeralds, are going to end up as smaller stones in the hands of random every day consumers who don't know that their 1-2 carat emerald recut from a stolen necklace commissioned by Napoleon is any different than another emerald in the store mined normally in Colombia.

And that's why I only buy conflict diamonds

[Shaka Shart]

Lot of really interesting facets to this robbery (no pun intended).  But the biggest tragedy, if it was indeed originals that were stolen and won't be recovered, is it nearly ALWAYS leads to the end of the items and/or precious stones.

Hundreds of years ago, even decades, things would get stolen and then randomly appear in a collection when someone died, a house of a collector was sold, or even when items would reappear for sale.  Some of the worlds largest or most famous diamonds were "lost" and then found that way.  But there is no rich or notable collector that either wants to buy something this hot that they can't display or even if its broken up, the technology is such that the stones will be easily able to be traced back to the stolen item.

So what ends up happening is the stones are recut.  So a magnificent huge historical emerald or ruby or diamond that size of a golf ball gets cut into numerous smaller stones and sold that way.  Diamonds can still be tricky when it comes to origin and provenance, especially in stones of that size, as big stones are pretty well known once they come out of the ground, much less polished.  But the colored gemstones trade is literally the Wild West.  A massive rough or polished diamond comes out and a big deal is made of the mine where it was found and who bought and cut the rough.  Yet every year massive colored gemstones appear and MAYBE they know what country it came from, cause it passes through so many hands going to market.

Hopefully they are found, but every day that passes, the chances of recovery plummets.  The irony is those stones, especially the emeralds, are going to end up as smaller stones in the hands of random every day consumers who don't know that their 1-2 carat emerald recut from a stolen necklace commissioned by Napoleon is any different than another emerald in the store mined normally in Colombia.

Or in Swiss vaults

[JWags85]

Or in Swiss vaults

Its not highly publicized, but most of the major Swiss institutions require documentation surrounding gems and jewelry.  They are happy to be aloof and unbothered about the flow of funds into the accounts, but they don't like to be sitting on stolen goods or artwork.  There was a fairly large rough diamond that was stolen about 20 years ago from an auction in Antwerp.  Inside job with armored car and some swapping.  The thieves got away pretty cleanly for about 9 months. 

Unbeknownst to most, they didn't polish it but basically cleaved it into 2 pieces.  One was sold to a dealer in London who contacted DeBeers when his buyer fell through (once their monopoly broke down, DeBeers for awhile was pretty obsessive about buying any large rough diamonds discovered anywhere outside of their mines.  Not for any real reason other than pride).  He was directed to the executive at DeBeers who headed up their rough sourcing operations at the time, who is a family friend.  The Debeers exec, coincidentally, was contacted the same week by one of the prestigious Swiss banks who had someone who had deposited/wanted to a hold a large rough diamond there but couldn't provide any sort of purchase/chain of custody info.  The Debeers exec flew down, with the other half of the rough diamond, and basically place them together and see it was two parts of the original stolen stone.

Real National Treasure/James Bond crap, but totally true.  The Debeers guy was basically the point man for finding any of the aforementioned large rough stones and acquiring them for the company, originally in the time before smartphones and the internet.  So it was a lot of flying to places in Europe/Africa and using connections and friends/associates cultivated over decades.  The man has the most insane stories.  He has one about Idi Amin, a Ugandan diamond mine, and using a satellite phone while hiding in a bush away from armed militants distracted by a friendly soldier who he bribed that makes Solomon Vandy and Blood Diamond sound like poorly written African conflict fan fiction.

But yea, long story short, Swiss banks aren't your sealed lip confidant for expensive stolen gems unless MAYBE you're a long standing customer of theirs with tons of other assets under their protection.  But most jewel thieves, even the best ones, aren't super wealthy dudes like Francois Toulour.

[Shaka Shart]

Its not highly publicized, but most of the major Swiss institutions require documentation surrounding gems and jewelry.  They are happy to be aloof and unbothered about the flow of funds into the accounts, but they don't like to be sitting on stolen goods or artwork.  There was a fairly large rough diamond that was stolen about 20 years ago from an auction in Antwerp.  Inside job with armored car and some swapping.  The thieves got away pretty cleanly for about 9 months. 

Unbeknownst to most, they didn't polish it but basically cleaved it into 2 pieces.  One was sold to a dealer in London who contacted DeBeers when his buyer fell through (once their monopoly broke down, DeBeers for awhile was pretty obsessive about buying any large rough diamonds discovered anywhere outside of their mines.  Not for any real reason other than pride).  He was directed to the executive at DeBeers who headed up their rough sourcing operations at the time, who is a family friend.  The Debeers exec, coincidentally, was contacted the same week by one of the prestigious Swiss banks who had someone who had deposited/wanted to a hold a large rough diamond there but couldn't provide any sort of purchase/chain of custody info.  The Debeers exec flew down, with the other half of the rough diamond, and basically place them together and see it was two parts of the original stolen stone.

Real National Treasure/James Bond crap, but totally true.  The Debeers guy was basically the point man for finding any of the aforementioned large rough stones and acquiring them for the company, originally in the time before smartphones and the internet.  So it was a lot of flying to places in Europe/Africa and using connections and friends/associates cultivated over decades.  The man has the most insane stories.  He has one about Idi Amin, a Ugandan diamond mine, and using a satellite phone while hiding in a bush away from armed militants distracted by a friendly soldier who he bribed that makes Solomon Vandy and Blood Diamond sound like poorly written fan African conflict fiction.

But yea, long story short, Swiss banks aren't your sealed lip confidant for expensive stolen gems unless MAYBE you're a long standing customer of theirs with tons of other assets under their protection.  But most jewel thieves, even the best ones, aren't super wealthy dudes like Francois Toulour.

Irish vaults probably more affordable anyway

[MU82]

Irish vaults probably more affordable anyway

Irish you wouldn't have said that.