Open practice

[PointWarrior]

Chase had the best game. Hit a lot of threes.

Stevens was the best freshman.  Looked very very good tonight.

DO the best player on White. Hit some threes and had a nice dunk off a backdoor pass by Caedin.

Sean looks 100%. Made a lot of defenders look silly. Needs to work on finishing

Royce, Tre, Zaide, and Caedin looked about the same as they did last year. They tried point Caedin a few times to mixed results

Clark had some nice lob dunks and blocks.  That's the entirety of his game right now.

Nigel had a nice stepback three and some good D before having to sit.

Militic had some nice moments.  Grabbed some boards and hit some shots.  Probably a redshirt or last guy in the rotation.

Phillips gotta think he's a redshirt candidate.

Ben was off galavanting with some Tall Blacks

But were there hotdogs available?

[The Sultan]

Tre is Marquette's #17 all-time recruit in program history according to 247Sports. In 2 years at MU, he's averaging 1.9 points, 1.4 rebounds, and 0.5 assists over 68 games. He is shooting 34.4% from the field and a cringe-worthy 18.8% from 3. You can sit here and sugar coat all you want - but my assessment is based on facts and data. 

The issue is that people seem to want to bash Tre all the time - like in your initial post. Look, he obviously hasn't lived up to whatever ranking he had - although I have no idea what to expect from the "#17 all-time recruit" however. Recruits surprise. Recruits disappoint. Such is the way of the world in college basketball. But he apparently works hard and is a good teammate. That's really all one can ask right? I doubt he's not working on whatever shortfalls he may have.

But then you have bullsh*t like this...

Tre showed tonight that he is number 13

This just is a bad basketball thought. Unless he gets injured, there is zero chance he will be 13th in minutes when the season is done.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Thanks to everyone who gave practice reports.  I always love hearing about the freshman.  A lot of these observations match what I observed on their HS film.

Stevens— college ready body, defensive menace, very solid all around player

James— jet quick with the ball and pesky on defense (some cat on the other side said he left with leg cramps)

Miletic— flashes on offense, good effort, but a long way to go on defense, foul issues

Phillips— young and raw, legit shot blocker

Overall, my thoughts on playing time remain the same.  James and Stevens will be rotation players this year.  Miletic is probably a year away from rotation minutes; end of bench this year. It would not surprise me to see Phillips join Pearson as a redshirt.

[BCHoopster]

Most teams only play 8 to 10 players when the Big East games start, is Tre one of them, maybe maybe not.  Time will tell.

[The Sultan]

Most teams only play 8 to 10 players when the Big East games start, is Tre one of them, maybe maybe not.  Time will tell.

In other words, he's not "number 13" as you stated less than 12 hours ago.

[JTJ3]

If youre expecting Tre to make a leap to star, of course there is going to be disappointment.

If you recognize Tre as what he is, a role player and great culture guy, he was totally fine yesterday.  He looked quicker.  Defends well and doesnt mess up rotations. He was aggressive around the rim on offense.  No, he cant shoot which is unfortunate.

He's never going to have the offensive game to be a star, but its pretty easy to see why the coaches trust him as an 8-10th man off the bench.  And he is clearly bought into this program and one of the vocal leaders on this team.

[tower912]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3GeWrgQPI

What Shaka thought about the practice and the summer in general.   

[BCHoopster]

In other words, he's not "number 13" as you stated less than 12 hours ago.

If he is 11-13, he is not playing much.

[MUbiz]

The issue is that people seem to want to bash Tre all the time - like in your initial post. Look, he obviously hasn't lived up to whatever ranking he had - although I have no idea what to expect from the "#17 all-time recruit" however. Recruits surprise. Recruits disappoint. Such is the way of the world in college basketball. But he apparently works hard and is a good teammate. That's really all one can ask right? I doubt he's not working on whatever shortfalls he may have.

The narrative of "Tre works hard and is a good teammate" applies to the entire team - or else Shaka would not have recruited them. This is D1 basketball, not a lifetime fitness rec league; if you do not produce, you need to sit. I trust Shaka, but I also am one of those scoopers who expects to win every year - not just be happy to make the tournament. We spend top 15-20 in money in entire country every year and should expect more from the program. I hold MUBB to a high standard and will give credit where due, but also call out players that do not produce.

As far as the 17th ranked recruit - below is what Tre was being compared against when he first came to MU. It is more than fair to say he has not lived up to expectations to date.

https://x.com/MikeYagmin/status/1567303891187863554

[BCHoopster]

Bottom line, MU has added 3 better guards this year, happens

[Its DJOver]

It is more than fair to say he has not lived up to expectations to date.

If this was all you said, no one would disagree.  Your "I automatically assume whatever team Tre was on was the one that lost" assessment is a poor take in poor taste.

[tower912]

If this was all you said, no one would disagree.  Your "I automatically assume whatever team Tre was on was the one that lost" assessment is a poor take in poor taste.

NM.  I was following the wrong argument.  Mea culpa.

[MUbiz]

If this was all you said, no one would disagree.  Your "I automatically assume whatever team Tre was on was the one that lost" assessment is a poor take in poor taste.

I said that more tongue in cheek than anything, but it is clear it did not come across that way.

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not saying Tres been good but using the 17th best recruit as a reason for him to be better is lacking context.

1) these are since 247's been around (or whatever the previous company was called, I can't remember anymore)

2) lets see who was above him to gauge the accuracy of these rankings.

Henry Ellenson- Lived up to hype
Dawson Garcia- debatable
Jajuan Johnson- did not live up to hype
Vander Blue- took till Junior year to live up to hype
Joey Hauser- debatable but if nothing else did not emotionally live up to hype
Damarius Owens- TBD
Deonte Burton- lived up to hype elsewhere
Dameon Mason- did not live up to hype
Sheek Pearson- tbd
Symir Torrence- did not live up to hype
Lazar Hayward- Lived up to hype
Dominic James- lived up to hype
Duane Wilson- debatable, but mostly did not live up to hype
Nigel James- tbd
Junior Cadougan- did not live up to hype
Stevie Mitchell- did not live up to hype
Tre Norman- has not lived up to hype

So with that in mind maybe we can stop the "hes supposed to be one of the best recruits ever!" Line of thinking.

[MUbiz]

Stevie Mitchell- did not live up to hype

Out of curiosity, why did Stevie not live up to the hype?  He progressed to be a 10 point a game scorer and one of the best defenders in the big east, if not country. 

[The Sultan]

I'm not saying Tres been good but using the 17th best recruit as a reason for him to be better is lacking context.

1) these are since 247's been around (or whatever the previous company was called, I can't remember anymore)

2) lets see who was above him to gauge the accuracy of these rankings.

Henry Ellenson- Lived up to hype
Dawson Garcia- debatable
Jajuan Johnson- did not live up to hype
Vander Blue- took till Junior year to live up to hype
Joey Hauser
Damarius Owens- TBD
Deonte Burton- lived up to hype elsewhere
Dameon Mason- did not live up to hype
Sheek Pearson- tbd
Symir Torrence- did not live up to hype
Lazar Hayward- Lived up to hype
Dominic James- lived up to hype
Duane Wilson- debatable, but mostly did not live up to hype
Nigel James- tbd
Junior Cadougan- did not live up to hype
Stevie Mitchell- did not live up to hype
Tre Norman- has not lived up to hype

So with that in mind maybe we can stop the "hes supposed to be one of the best recruits ever!" Line of thinking.

Stevie "did not live up to the hype?" Yet Duane Wilson is "debatable?"

Stevie started over 100 games and played on four NCAA teams as well as a conference champion. Looking at advanced stats, he was WAY more impactful than Duane Wilson ever was.

[mileskishnish72]

Out of curiosity, why did Stevie not live up to the hype?  He progressed to be a 10 point a game scorer and one of the best defenders in the big east, if not country. 

Absolutely agree. Defensive force, team leader, a hair from a 1,000 point scorer.

[JakeBarnes]

Absolutely agree. Defensive force, team leader, a hair from a 1,000 point scorer.

Would have been a 1k scorer if he didn't have to duct tape his body together for half of last year.

[We R Final Four]

Tre is a solid defender. He also can get to and finish at the rim.

I was hoping that his "release from behind his head" 3 point shot would be addressed and altered since March. It has not.

If he continues to be a dog on D he will play. However, teams will be begging him to shoot from deep.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Tre is a solid defender. He also can get to and finish at the rim.

I was hoping that his "release from behind his head" 3 point shot would be addressed and altered since March. It has not.

If he continues to be a dog on D he will play. However, teams will be begging him to shoot from deep.

All of the other guards can defend, too.  Jones, Ross, Lowery, James, and Stevens... that's a deep group of perimeter defenders.

I think all 5 are better offensive players than Tre.  Tre's not all that quick or explosive on his drives.  His shooting struggles are well documented.

It's unfortunate Tre gets dumped on so much for not living up to his recruiting rankings.  But if we're being honest, I have a hard time seeing him getting more than spot minutes this year.  I don't think Shaka even mentioned him in yesterday's media session after the open practice.

Not every recruit is going to work out. Just the way it is.

[wadesworld]

The narrative of "Tre works hard and is a good teammate" applies to the entire team - or else Shaka would not have recruited them. This is D1 basketball, not a lifetime fitness rec league; if you do not produce, you need to sit. I trust Shaka, but I also am one of those scoopers who expects to win every year - not just be happy to make the tournament. We spend top 15-20 in money in entire country every year and should expect more from the program. I hold MUBB to a high standard and will give credit where due, but also call out players that do not produce.

As far as the 17th ranked recruit - below is what Tre was being compared against when he first came to MU. It is more than fair to say he has not lived up to expectations to date.

https://x.com/MikeYagmin/status/1567303891187863554

If you expected Trey Norman to be at the same level as Cade Cunningham, Ben Simmons, Paolo Banchero, Cam Reddish, etc. then I would suggest the issue is more you, not Tre.

And the good news is that with 15 roster spots, not everyone has to be those guys!  Marquette has been great under Shaka.  Pretending like fans are just "accepting mediocrity" because they don't call out Tre Norman more is dumb.  You aren't a better fan because you pick whichever team Tre Norman isn't on.

[The Sultan]

All of the other guards can defend, too.  Jones, Ross, Lowery, James, and Stevens... that's a deep group of perimeter defenders.

I think all 5 are better offensive players than Tre.  Tre's not all that quick or explosive on his drives.  His shooting struggles are well documented.

It's unfortunate Tre gets dumped on so much for not living up to his recruiting rankings.  But if we're being honest, I have a hard time seeing him getting more than spot minutes this year.  I don't think Shaka even mentioned him in yesterday's media session after the open practice.

Not every recruit is going to work out. Just the way it is.

He talked about the freshmen because he was asked about them. I don't recall him talking about Zaide Lowery or Chase Ross either.

But we will see. Stevens and James have to do it in real, actual games.

[Galway Eagle]

Out of curiosity, why did Stevie not live up to the hype?  He progressed to be a 10 point a game scorer and one of the best defenders in the big east, if not country. 

Defensively and culturally absolutely. However, take away his name and if I told you that the 16th best recruit ever at Marquette, who averaged 22.3ppg, 5.4 rpg and 1.9 apg his senior year, was going to have a career average here of 7.4ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.1 apg there is no way you say he lived up to the hype.

[The Sultan]

Defensively and culturally absolutely. However, take away his name and if I told you that the 16th best recruit ever at Marquette, who averaged 22.3ppg, 5.4 rpg and 1.9 apg his senior year, was going to have a career average here of 7.4ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.1 apg there is no way you say he lived up to the hype.

Well good thing I (and others) realize the game is played on both ends and actually...you know...watched him play.

[MUbiz]

If you expected Trey Norman to be at the same level as Cade Cunningham, Ben Simmons, Paolo Banchero, Cam Reddish, etc. then I would suggest the issue is more you, not Tre.

And the good news is that with 15 roster spots, not everyone has to be those guys!  Marquette has been great under Shaka.  Pretending like fans are just "accepting mediocrity" because they don't call out Tre Norman more is dumb.  You aren't a better fan because you pick whichever team Tre Norman isn't on.

When did I say Tre was going to be as good as Banchero, Reddish, Cunningham etc?  You missed my point completely.  My point was Tre was one of the best EYBL players in the country at one point - so much so he was being compared to other elite players. If Tre played half as good as he did in EYBL, he would be a sure fire starter this year for the team.

Insinuating I'm dumb because I'm calling out players who haven't performed is just lazy nonsense. I'm bringing facts to the table - care to match me with some actual arguments?


As far as picking a team who wins or loses in July in an open scrimmage, please read below:

I said that more tongue in cheek than anything, but it is clear it did not come across that way.