Psyched about the future of Marquette hoops

[tower912]

Of course there are going to be down cycles.  There are down cycles for teams that use the portal heavily. 

I look at it this way.  Every high major team other than MU used the portal last season.    There were the same number of wins, the same number of losses, the same number of surprise teams, the same number of disappointing teams.   So, from that perspective, since everybody is using it, it is essentially background noise.
   There were some old school coaches complaining and retiring.  There were some young coaches embracing the new structure.   Again, same as it ever was.
   There are a number (I have little doubt that the data guys can figure out the exact number) of players who entered the portal who haven't landed anywhere yet.   Who aren't getting a bag, who aren't moving up.

A recurring theme among MU signees and potential signees is that they really admire Shaka's commitment to his recruits and that they won't be buried by portal transfers.

So, yes, there will be misses.  There will be down seasons.  There always have been and always will be, even among schools that go heavy into the portal. 
  I am enjoying zigging when everyone else is zagging.  I am enjoying watching the players develop.  I am enjoying watching MU have an identity again.

[The Sultan]

I'm in on Shaka, but I actually think there's a rational argument that 2023 & 2024 were more outliers than what we should expect going forward. College basketball IS changing. The portal and NIL has transformed how programs are built. When you look at the college landscape, for most programs the months after the Final Four are just as, if not more, exciting than the Tournament itself.

And yet while everyone else is moving into that future, Shaka is the one guy who is fervently holding on to a past that many feel doesn't exist anymore. When people have been saying "we just need one more guy" for three years, and the last two years ended at a lower level than the one before with most pundits predicting another drop, it's easy to say that his rosters with a pair of NBA-talent transfers and a trio of four-year players that originally committed to the last coach might've been the outlier.

In 7 of the 8 years before coming to Marquette, Shaka finished below his preseason kenpom projection, and the only time he beat it was in 2018 when he was projected 37th and finished 36th. I can see skeptics thinking "that's the guy we hired, and he's stuck in the past with his roster builds."

I'm still in on Shaka. He's only 48 and as fifth and sixth year players go away, I think the value of a program built on continuity will rise. It's going to get harder to buy experience and take longer to build cohesion, and Shaka's continuity addresses both of those. But I do think it will go in cycles. When we have a couple solid recruiting classes in a row that are juniors and seniors at the same time, we'll be really good. When we have a down class or two in a row become upperclassmen, it'll be tough sledding. The longer we sustain success, the fewer down classes I imagine we'll have. But this program is going to take more time than the "buy stars now" schools like St. John's are to build back from the losses of program cornerstones like Tyler, Oso, Stevie, and Kam.

Until he significantly underperforms in more than one season, I am not going to worry how he builds his teams.

[Scoop Snoop]

A recurring theme among MU signees and potential signees is that they really admire Shaka's commitment to his recruits and that they won't be buried by portal transfers.

So, yes, there will be misses.  There will be down seasons.  There always have been and always will be, even among schools that go heavy into the portal.
 
  I am enjoying zigging when everyone else is zagging.  I am enjoying watching the players develop.  I am enjoying watching MU have an identity again.

Great post Tower.

Scoop's portal pushers very conveniently ignore that the portal swings both ways. Kolek. Oso, Stevie, and others could have easily transferred out. "Improving the team" with transfers destroys the premise of your top sentence here. And going the portal route does not guarantee better results than Shaka's approach.

I love not only Marquette's identity but also knowing the players from previous seasons and watching them develop. 

[MUbiz]

I'm in on Shaka, but I actually think there's a rational argument that 2023 & 2024 were more outliers than what we should expect going forward. College basketball IS changing. The portal and NIL has transformed how programs are built. When you look at the college landscape, for most programs the months after the Final Four are just as, if not more, exciting than the Tournament itself.

And yet while everyone else is moving into that future, Shaka is the one guy who is fervently holding on to a past that many feel doesn't exist anymore. When people have been saying "we just need one more guy" for three years, and the last two years ended at a lower level than the one before with most pundits predicting another drop, it's easy to say that his rosters with a pair of NBA-talent transfers and a trio of four-year players that originally committed to the last coach might've been the outlier.

In 7 of the 8 years before coming to Marquette, Shaka finished below his preseason kenpom projection, and the only time he beat it was in 2018 when he was projected 37th and finished 36th. I can see skeptics thinking "that's the guy we hired, and he's stuck in the past with his roster builds."

I'm still in on Shaka. He's only 48 and as fifth and sixth year players go away, I think the value of a program built on continuity will rise. It's going to get harder to buy experience and take longer to build cohesion, and Shaka's continuity addresses both of those. But I do think it will go in cycles. When we have a couple solid recruiting classes in a row that are juniors and seniors at the same time, we'll be really good. When we have a down class or two in a row become upperclassmen, it'll be tough sledding. The longer we sustain success, the fewer down classes I imagine we'll have. But this program is going to take more time than the "buy stars now" schools like St. John's are to build back from the losses of program cornerstones like Tyler, Oso, Stevie, and Kam.

Great post Alan. I am all in on Shaka - this is truly the first year the team will have fully 100% Shaka recruits - and I am excited for Shaka to try it his way.

But I have to admit, I am a bit concerned about this roster, especially the Junior and Senior class.  Shaka did great the first 2 years on portal players, then our current junior and senior class have performed less than advertised imho. So I am hoping a few stars emerge from the current soph and freshman classes.

And before 75% of scoop jumps on me for voicing a rational opinion, Shaka had 4 NBA players in the first 2 years - time will tell, but the next 2 years (current Jr and Sr) are not looking nearly as fruitful if you are being 100% honest with yourself.

[Its DJOver]

There's a difference between "having" NBA players and "developing" NBA players.  Duke has NBA players, Cal has NBA players, those guys are going to the association no matter what.  Shaka developed NBA players. A couple of them might have made it anyways, but I highly doubt all of them would.

[MUbiz]

There's a difference between "having" NBA players and "developing" NBA players.  Duke has NBA players, Cal has NBA players, those guys are going to the association no matter what.  Shaka developed NBA players. A couple of them might have made it anyways, but I highly doubt all of them would.

100% agree with you and my sentiment still stands, our current Jr and Sr classes to date have not developed to be NBA caliber players. Not saying that can't change, but its very unlikely at this point we get 4 NBA draft picks out of BG, Chase, Sean, Tre or Zaide.

[Its DJOver]

100% agree with you and my sentiment still stands, our current Jr and Sr classes to date have not developed to be NBA caliber players. Not saying that can't change, but its very unlikely at this point we get 4 NBA draft picks out of BG, Chase, Sean, Tre or Zaide.

Was it not very unlikely that all of OMax, TKO, Oso, and Kam make it?

[MUbiz]

Was it not very unlikely that all of OMax, TKO, Oso, and Kam make it?

It is more than fair to say you saw the development of Omax, TKO, Oso and Kam and could tell they were going to NBA a year before it happened. Other college coaches were saying Oso was a pro (Hurley), Omax was a freak athletically, TKO was BE player of year and Kam was shooting 40% from 3. Also - those 4 players had a buzz around them in NBA circles.

I do not see the development of our current Jr and Sr right now to NBA players and the only one that has had any talk about "he might be NBA talent" to date is Chase that I am aware of.

[Its DJOver]

It is more than fair to say you saw the development of Omax, TKO, Oso and Kam and could tell they were going to NBA a year before it happened. Other college coaches were saying Oso was a pro (Hurley), Omax was a freak athletically, TKO was BE player of year and Kam was shooting 40% from 3. Also - those 4 players had a buzz around them in NBA circles.

I do not see the development of our current Jr and Sr right now to NBA players and the only one that has had any talk about "he might be NBA talent" to date is Chase that I am aware of.

So your argument is "I just saw Shaka develop these players into NBA level, but I don't think he can do it again with different players."

I get CBB is very much a "what have you done for me lately" business and of course he's not going to have 4 future NBA players on every roster, but as others have said, until Shaka's way starts not working, I'm going to let him do things his way.

[MUbiz]

So your argument is "I just saw Shaka develop these players into NBA level, but I don't think he can do it again with different players."

How did you extrapolate this take? I never even said that. LOL.  It is fair to say we knew Oso, TKO and Kam were getting drafted a year before it happened. Again, Hurley comments, BE player of year and all 3 were being discussed in NBA circles.

My point is we do not have that currently on our team currently from any of the Jr class or senior class. I am not saying it can't happen, but the first 2 years of Shaka's teams developed much faster and produced more than the players from the next 2 years. Which in turn, limits our ceiling as a team this coming year - unless of course 2-3 guys step up and become stars - but the likelihood of that happening is not great. Which is why I am leaning in on the current fresh and sohp to step up.