What a difference a year makes

[TallTitan34]

I'm not going to take the time to read that but rather continue laughing at you.

[🏀]

I'm very happy for Koby Brea, sounds like Dayton was holding him back. Access to better medical facilities and treatment goes a long way.

[wadesworld]

Yet, you still persist in talking about Dayton on this thread, so I'm going to tell you a story that is highly relevant to the Big East Conference. I'll start by introducing you to Koby Brea – a totally unknown, unscouted, unrahked high school senior five years ago, who received only one Division I basketball scholarship offer – from Coach Anthony Grant.

Koby Brea Recruiting Profile (HS Class of 2020) – 247 Sports

Koby Brea Bio – Dayton Flyers official website

Koby rarely, if ever, was in the Flyers' starting line-up during his injury-plagued four seasons at Dayton. His injuries hampered his lateral movement, so he was a defensive liability, but kept working to improve his strength and mobility.

Last summer it was learned (from multiple sources in UD's wealthy benefactor / NIL syndicate) that the Kentucky's wealthy benefactor / NIL syndicate had offered Koby $1 million to play is fifth season at Kentucky.  Dayton's NIL syndicate (not nearly as rich as Kentucky's) coulf only come up with $500,000 fo the 2024-25 season, so they wished Koby well, as he now had a fiancée and child to support.

Kentucky Lands Koby Brea; Dayton Transfer Considered Duke, UNC, More – Bleacher Report – May 2, 2024
Koby Brea Bio – Kentucky Wildcats official website

Koby Brea Career Stats – ESPN – updated March 24, 2025

As things turned out, Kentucky is getting their money's worth:

#6 Illinois Fighting Illini 86, # 11 Xavier Musketeers 73 – ESPN Box Score – March , 2025

#3 Kentucky Wildcats 84, #6 Illinois Fighting Illini 75 – ESPN Box Score – March 24, 2025

#3 Kentucky Wildcats 84, #6 Illinois Fighting Illini 75 – ESPN Game Recap – March 24, 2025 
 
The moral of this story is highly relevant to the Big East conference, as well as the other triple-A conferences:

If P4 programs such as Kentucky can afford to pay $1 million per season for a Dayton Flyers' reserve player, they can afford to buy most players on Big East rosters, and the situation will only become worse in the future, as the P4 conferences are widening the gap over triple-A conferences in both the accumulation of NCAA Tournament 'credits' for wins, and the value of TV media rights contracts between the P4 conferences and triple-A conferences is widening each year. They're going to have a lot of money to spend in the years ahead, and that's a direct threat to Big East and the other triple-A conferences.

 

Koby Brea is now an NBA Draft prospect – SB Nation – February 13, 2025

2025 NBA mock draft: Pick projections ahead of March Madness – ESPN – updated March 13, 2025

i ain't reading all that.  im happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.

[wadesworld]

T-Rank is free as well, but why upgrade to a 2005 Cavalier when the 1994 is still running strong.

Good point.

Here's a free link for our Dayton friend.  ACC is the Big Leagues and we're effed.

https://barttorvik.com/?year=2025&sort=&hteam=&t2value=&conlimit=All&state=All&conyes=1&begin=20241101&end=20250501&top=0&revquad=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0#

[TallTitan34]

@Fieldhouse Flyer what made you choose that image of money?  So many good options out there and you chose a computer generated "Cash Money Stack Glossy Poster" from e-bay.

Not sure I can trust your judgement.

[wadesworld]

Same fanbase that provided us with these beauts.  Will Dayton fans continue telling Marquette fans the Big East is effed?  Someday they'll be right, right?

I can tell you from the A10's perspective, those institutions are not going anywhere -- namely Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Butler, St. Joe, etc.  The league just expanded with Butler and VCU and is the best basketball only league in the country.

There is zero incentive for some of those schools to pick up and leave the complete security, certainty, and future of the A10, for some half-baked new conference in a new world order of college athletics that has exit fees, entrance fees, unknown certainty, unknown security, new rivals, new geographies, new travel partners, no TV package, and no automatic postseason NCAA bid.

The A10 members are exactly where they want to be. They are ALREADY in a good, stable, secure basketball conference with 100% security.  The postseason tourney is moving to the Barclays Center in Brooklyn this season. Everything about the league is on the up-tick. It is a destination league for basketball schools -- not an exit platform. The only schools leaving are those with grandiose, half-baked plans for BCS football.

Furthermore, the A10 doesn't even need to expand. They are going to be at 14 teams when the smoke clears from Charlotte and Temple. Going to 16 is not a priority or even likely a roundtable agenda item. The only way Marquette or DePaul associates with A10 basketball schools is if they beg for mercy and the A10 sends them an invitation. The BE hoops schools are no longer driving this train; they are in the caboose at the mercy of everyone else. They lost all of their leverage because they held on to football money for far too long. The time to get out was about five years ago. That window has passed because other conferences have been proactive to improve their own situations and lock in their future identities.

Fans thinking they can just break from the BE football schools and "the A10 brand schools will follow us" are over-reaching. Marquette and DePaul simply dont have the leverage anymore. Your name alone does not trump conference security -- and the A10 already has that.  The A10 will never be the Big East of 5 years ago, but nothing ever will.  But it doesnt have to be. The thing about A10 schools is they've never tried to be something they aren't.  While it may have cost them in terms of money and prestige over the last 10 years, it's paying off now because most members have always had the same goals in mind. Everyone was rowing in the same direction.

There is a lot of loyalty among member basketball institutions of the A10. Even among the haves and have-nots.  Based on performance, Fordham or Duquesne or LaSalle could have been kicked out years ago. But the conference values the relationships and sees the league as being in it together. You have members with 13,000-seat arenas and 3,000-seat Arenas.  So you can also put away the idea that the A10 will kick a couple bottomfeeders out to make room for new members. No A10 school will be asked or even encouraged to leave. If they leave, it will be of their own doing. And that's unlikely in the near future.

Having said all of this, I dont think BE basketball schools do much until Louisville and UC decide what to do. Louisville has already publicly stated they want out. UC will follow in their shadow (or attempt to).  The Big East is a giant fustercluck however. You have teams spread all over the country, abysmal scheduling issues and odd travel and travel partners, fewer and fewer historical rivalries, fractured fan bases from different geographies with little or nothing in common, and two completely different sets of academic and spiritual values trying to homogenize.  You have small private catholic schools trying to assimilate with large state schools attempting to become a football factory.  You might as well be mixing oil and water.

The A10 has none of these problems. Which is why those members are putting roots down.

Ive stated several times that A10 schools will have the most leverage in the basketball-only world. The A10 recently added Butler and VCU when football-destined schools Temple and Charlotte left. That was a very good swap and further focused the league on hoops-only.

The A10 has security and right now security is 9/10ths of the law.  There are league rivalries, schedules, TV deals, conference tourney sites (Barclays), NCAA automatic berths, and many other things going for the A10. Most important: more people want into the A10 than out of it. We can speculate on what teams might want in at any given moment -- some better or worse than others -- but the list of schools will continue to get longer and more competitive as conference shakeups occur.

The top A10 schools are not going to leave the stability and security of the A10 for some new-fangled league that takes 4-5 years to get an NCAA automatic bid, has no conference tournament home, no TV package, etc. Not when they see what's going on right now with everyone jockeying for new leagues left and right.  No A10 school is going to jump from whats already the best basketball-only league to jumpstart a new league with new members whom have made most of their decisions over the last 15 years on nothing but the dollar bill. These A10 schools would be fearful that they join a new league and in 2-3 years some members of the new league split town and leave them behind (see also Great Midwest Conference, Conference-USA).

Five years ago, a new hoops-only league with A10 schools might have been possible. But the A10 has added Sloo, Butler, VCU, and are looking to caulk their own hulls and fasten the hatches for the long haul.

Considering most of those Big East schools refuse to even schedule A10 schools in the non-con, I think its also safe to say there's not as much love out there as some think.  The A10 has simply moved on and I dont think they feel they even need the BE basketball schools anymore.  They have never operated with that massive BE football money and have managed to earn their success on far smaller budgets. And yet many A10 schools have outstanding athletic departments as good or better than some BE schools.

Money is not the answer to everything.  I think the BE hoops schools waited far too long and now they may pay a price and get left out if the A10 doesnt feel the need to throw a life vest.

While everyone is ultimately out for their own survival, there is very little interest in A10 schools exiting the A10 to align with BE schools. If realignment occurs, the A10 will be the one doing the poaching because the existing A10 schools are not going to voluntarily give up their negotiating strength.  A10 schools dont need the BE schools. BE schools may need the A10 schools however -- heck they may need them just on numbers alone to qualify as an automatic bid conference. Big difference.

If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking. 

You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.

If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess.  The A10 schools have the high ground.  They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.

While you guys were sitting around counting the checks the last 6-7 years, the A10 was busy trying to position themselves as the best basketball-only conference. They never tried to be something they were not. They didn't sit still. They added Butler and VCU and St. Louis.  They never twiddled thumbs waiting on conference collapses to snag a Georgetown.

Five years ago, some of the A10 schools might have listened to your plea to form a new hoops only league. But you were too busy counting benjamins. That ship has sailed, my friend. There may or may not be a collective empowerment between the Big East and A10, but if there is, it will be on the A10's terms.

The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal.  Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.

The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians.  That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.

Many of you are right in this sense: you are second class citizens in the Big East and have been for years. You cashed the paychecks, but were otherwise red-headed stepchildren. Your say never counted at the board meetings and you were to be seen and not heard. Football drove the bus and basketball was back-burner.  But you should have seen this coming a long time ago. You waited far too long. Instead of being proactive and guaranteeing your own autonomy, nothing mattered as long as the checks didnt bounce. From the very beginning you never had a hand on the wheel -- and no conference should ever be run without all hands steering together in the same direction.

The A10 has always had that luxury. And member institutions are not in any hurry to jump ship in 50-foot seas when the boat ain't leaking. It might not be the fastest or prettiest ship on the high seas, but she's not foundering, and that's quite impressive given the current climate.

If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic?  Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Ignore is your friend.  Especially when the posts take up so much space.

[Uncle Rico]

This reminds me of what diarrhea feels like

[WhiteTrash]

Kudos to Flyer, this is one of the most successful trolls I've seen.

[Hards Alumni]

Kudos to Flyer, this is one of the most successful trolls I've seen.

It's not trolling if he's serious... which I'm pretty sure he is.

[Uncle Rico]

It's not trolling if he's serious... which I'm pretty sure he is.

Correct.  He used to post this nonsense at Holy Land of Hoops.

[Uncle Rico]

KenPom:

4. KenPom +13.70
8. A10 +2.92, just ahead of Conference USA and just behind the WCC

[🏀]

KenPom:

4. KenPom +13.70
8. A10 +2.92, just ahead of Conference USA and just behind the WCC

The Big East is almost 5 times better than the A10.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Yet, you still persist in talking about Dayton on this thread, so I'm going to tell you a story that is highly relevant to the Big East Conference. I'll start by introducing you to Koby Brea – a totally unknown, unscouted, unrahked high school senior five years ago, who received only one Division I basketball scholarship offer – from Coach Anthony Grant.

Koby Brea Recruiting Profile (HS Class of 2020) – 247 Sports

Koby Brea Bio – Dayton Flyers official website

Koby rarely, if ever, was in the Flyers' starting line-up during his injury-plagued four seasons at Dayton. His injuries hampered his lateral movement, so he was a defensive liability, but kept working to improve his strength and mobility.

Last summer it was learned (from multiple sources in UD's wealthy benefactor / NIL syndicate) that the Kentucky's wealthy benefactor / NIL syndicate had offered Koby $1 million to play is fifth season at Kentucky.  Dayton's NIL syndicate (not nearly as rich as Kentucky's) coulf only come up with $500,000 fo the 2024-25 season, so they wished Koby well, as he now had a fiancée and child to support.

Kentucky Lands Koby Brea; Dayton Transfer Considered Duke, UNC, More – Bleacher Report – May 2, 2024
Koby Brea Bio – Kentucky Wildcats official website

Koby Brea Career Stats – ESPN – updated March 24, 2025

As things turned out, Kentucky is getting their money's worth:

#6 Illinois Fighting Illini 86, # 11 Xavier Musketeers 73 – ESPN Box Score – March , 2025

#3 Kentucky Wildcats 84, #6 Illinois Fighting Illini 75 – ESPN Box Score – March 24, 2025

#3 Kentucky Wildcats 84, #6 Illinois Fighting Illini 75 – ESPN Game Recap – March 24, 2025 
 
The moral of this story is highly relevant to the Big East conference, as well as the other triple-A conferences:

If P4 programs such as Kentucky can afford to pay $1 million per season for a Dayton Flyers' reserve player, they can afford to buy most players on Big East rosters, and the situation will only become worse in the future, as the P4 conferences are widening the gap over triple-A conferences in both the accumulation of NCAA Tournament 'credits' for wins, and the value of TV media rights contracts between the P4 conferences and triple-A conferences is widening each year. They're going to have a lot of money to spend in the years ahead, and that's a direct threat to Big East and the other triple-A conferences.

 

Koby Brea is now an NBA Draft prospect – SB Nation – February 13, 2025

2025 NBA mock draft: Pick projections ahead of March Madness – ESPN – updated March 13, 2025

[TallTitan34]

the 2025 NCAA Tournament was a PR disaster for the Big East.

I am somehow surviving this PR disaster by telling myself the Big East has won 8 of the last 21 NCAA Tournaments.

[tower912]

I am somehow surviving this PR disaster by telling myself the Big East has won 8 of the last 21 NCAA Tournaments.

Which, coincidentally, is the same number of times Dayton has been to the NCAA tournament in the last 22 seasons.

[Galway Eagle]

Which, coincidentally, is the same number of times Dayton has been to the NCAA tournament in the last 22 seasons.

Oof I mean some programs would kill for that but imagine thinking you were on the upper tier of programs with a shot at the big East putting up those numbers

[Scoop Snoop]

With scoopers at war with each other over going to the portal vs. developing HS recruits, perhaps we should try to find a middle ground. I suggest that Marquette buy the Dayton basketball team-but not the university-to use as our very own G League. Fieldhouse could keep us updated on how players are coming along, and which ones will likely be sent to Milwaukee. We could send underperforming players from Milwaukee to Dayton and try to help them overcome their deficiencies. 

Edit: They can keep the Dayton name so students and other fans attend the games and cheer loudly, but the Flyers name has to go. They could be the Gold, the Warriors, or the Golden Beagles. Fieldhouse, your thoughts?

[MuggsyB]

With scoopers at war with each other over going to the portal vs. developing HS recruits, perhaps we should try to find a middle ground. I suggest that Marquette buy the Dayton basketball team-but not the university-to use as our very own G League. Fieldhouse could keep us updated on how players are coming along, and which ones will likely be sent to Milwaukee. We could send underperforming players from Milwaukee to Dayton and try to help them overcome their deficiencies. 

No one is at war. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

What does this guy think of the mid-range shot?  That's what I want to know

[Scoop Snoop]

No one is at war.