Shaka's Next 4 Years

[1SE]

Whether or not the "grace period is over" it is absolutely right that in the next four years Shaka is 100% in control of the program - all his guys - all his development - all his choices. So, what results do we need to see for you to still say Shaka's seat is as ice-cold in April 2029 as it is this year?

For me, no surprise, we need to see some deep tourney success (for me - FF) - this is why we made the change. If we wanted a clean program that keeps us in the tourney convo most years we could have hung on to "try harder". Winning a couple NCAAT games over a 4 year span where we're the heavy favorite and no more isn't really much better IMO. At this point, Shaka's NCAAT struggles are a feature, not a bug. If he can figure out how to get over that hurdle in the next 4 keep him forever - but if our program's aspirations under Shaka top out at "hopefully we make the 2nd weekend every once in a while" I'm not sold. 

[MUDAN05]

Marquette needs to become a consistent S16 team and then once in a while make a deeper run.  Gonzaga has been to two final fours, but the most impressive thing about Mark Few is the amount of S16s he has been to.  Jim Boeheim is one of the greatest coaches ever, coached 47 years, and made 5 final fours.  So that is about once a decade.  Maybe Shaka can do better than my expectations, but I'd like to compete for conference titles and get out of opening weekend on a consistent basis and life will be pretty good in my book. 

[willie warrior]

If nit the bunson burner should already be firmly placed under somebody's ass.

[brewcity77]

I'm between the second and third options. If we continue to get bids every year, half as protected seeds, I fully believe the E8/F4 results will follow. For years guys like Jay, Bennett, and Drew were the guys who always got in but didn't win the big one. Hell, I'm old enough to remember when they said that about Coach K. Keep positioning yourself in the regular season and that breakthrough will come.

[1SE]

I'm between the second and third options. If we continue to get bids every year, half as protected seeds, I fully believe the E8/F4 results will follow. For years guys like Jay, Bennett, and Drew were the guys who always got in but didn't win the big one. Hell, I'm old enough to remember when they said that about Coach K. Keep positioning yourself in the regular season and that breakthrough will come.

Sure, but if at some point the breakthrough doesn't come, then you're stuck in slight better than Wojoville.

K was in the title game in year 6 at Duke.
Jay was EE in year 5 and FF in year 8.
Bennett EE in year 7.

[brewcity77]

Sure, but if at some point the breakthrough doesn't come, then you're stuck in slight better than Wojoville.

K was in the title game in year 6 at Duke.
Jay was EE in year 5 and FF in year 8.
Bennett EE in year 7.

And the narrative around K was that he couldn't win until he knocked off UNLV in year 10. Jay's F4 was long forgotten and there were calls for him to be fired in 2012, along with fan frustration when he earned 1/2 seeds and bowed out in the first weekend in 2014 & 2015. And Bennett was the poster child for "his teams always flame out" until the insane endgame heroics against Purdue, Auburn, & Texas Tech.

If you really think this is "slight better than Wojoville" I have to assume you were born in 2020. We're in a much, much better place than we were, while still being short of where we want to be. The program is on par with where Buzz had it, probably slightly ahead. The difference is Buzz got the huge shot from DJO (after a regular season worse than any Shaka has had), managed the comeback on Murray State, and had that final frenetic minute against Davidson.

[MuggsyB]

Sure, but if at some point the breakthrough doesn't come, then you're stuck in slight better than Wojoville.

K was in the title game in year 6 at Duke.
Jay was EE in year 5 and FF in year 8.
Bennett EE in year 7.

Slightly better than Wojo is nonsense.  Look up cataclysmic disaster in the dictionary.  That's where we were under Wojo. 

[HutchwasClutch]

And the narrative around K was that he couldn't win until he knocked off UNLV in year 10. Jay's F4 was long forgotten and there were calls for him to be fired in 2012, along with fan frustration when he earned 1/2 seeds and bowed out in the first weekend in 2014 & 2015. And Bennett was the poster child for "his teams always flame out" until the insane endgame heroics against Purdue, Auburn, & Texas Tech.

If you really think this is "slight better than Wojoville" I have to assume you were born in 2020. We're in a much, much better place than we were, while still being short of where we want to be. The program is on par with where Buzz had it, probably slightly ahead. The difference is Buzz got the huge shot from DJO (after a regular season worse than any Shaka has had), managed the comeback on Murray State, and had that final frenetic minute against Davidson.

In other words, multiple examples of Buzz's players rising to the occasion and playing with poise in the biggest moments.  We're still waiting on that under Shaka other than Colorado last year.

We made three consecutive S16, with an E8 among that under Buzz.  Shaka's not "slightly ahead".  Get real.

But enjoying the new narrative- hey, he's better than Wojoke.  Sit down and shut up now! 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There's nothing magic or special about coaching in March. You keep getting high seeds to give yourself the best chance at making a run,  eventually it will happen.

If you think MU would ever fire a coach that maskes the tourney every year,  you would be mistaken

[MuggsyB]

There's nothing magic or special about coaching in March. You keep getting high seeds to give yourself the best chance at making a run,  eventually it will happen.

If you think MU would ever fire a coach that maskes the tourney every year,  you would be mistaken

I 90% agree with you.  At the end of the day it's about getting a high protected seed.  That said, we've played well in one Shaka coached tournament game.  We've played pretty poorly in the other games, including our 1st rds as a #2. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I 90% agree with you.  At the end of the day it's about getting a high protected seed.  That said, we've played well in one Shaka coached tournament game.  We've played pretty poorly in the other games, including our 1st rds as a #2. 

Tyler injury and going 4/31 from 3 the following year, both against teams that went to the final 4.

Not saying Shaka shouldn't have some accountability but if your star gets hurt or shots don't fall I don't see a ton you can do.

[drbob]

If the level of recruiting doesn't improve there will be no tournament every year.  Look at Hurley's incoming class

[Mu8891]

Shaka has done a lot of good things, and we are in way better shape than with Wojo.

BUT ... he has had no success whatsoever in the NCAAT.  He has two 2/15 wins. Wow
And a win v. Colorado

Otherwise:
Losing to NC by about 100 points, and terrible games / losses v. MSU, NCST and yesterday

Let's not forget... he's here cuz TX was going to fire him for not winning a single NCAAT game.

And ... the cupboard is bare for next season.  His recruiting has been poor at best


Do we really need THREE " project " big men ?

[brewcity77]

In other words, multiple examples of Buzz's players rising to the occasion and playing with poise in the biggest moments.  We're still waiting on that under Shaka other than Colorado last year.

We made three consecutive S16, with an E8 among that under Buzz.  Shaka's not "slightly ahead".  Get real.

But enjoying the new narrative- hey, he's better than Wojoke.  Sit down and shut up now! 

Dude, if you think that 2011 season was better than any under Shaka, you're still drunk from last night. Buzz had 5 NBA players (Jimmy, Jae, DJO, Buycks, Blue) and barely made the tourney. He had one year in his first four (2012) that was close to Shaka's years 2 & 3. But no, his best year in that span (3-seed, S16) was still not better than Shaka's (2-seed, S16).

[GB Warrior]

In other words, multiple examples of Buzz's players rising to the occasion and playing with poise in the biggest moments.  We're still waiting on that under Shaka other than Colorado last year.

We made three consecutive S16, with an E8 among that under Buzz.  Shaka's not "slightly ahead".  Get real.

But enjoying the new narrative- hey, he's better than Wojoke.  Sit down and shut up now! 

I want what we had in the Buzz years. That's where it felt like the breakthrough was coming before it came crashing down.

I worry about his stubbornness with recruiting.

[WolfganghisKhan]

Why are we even comparing and bringing up the Wojo years? Is that the standard for comparing ourselves to? Or should it be similar spending programs?

[Galway Eagle]

Dude, if you think that 2011 season was better than any under Shaka, you're still drunk from last night. Buzz had 5 NBA players (Jimmy, Jae, DJO, Buycks, Blue) and barely made the tourney. He had one year in his first four (2012) that was close to Shaka's years 2 & 3. But no, his best year in that span (3-seed, S16) was still not better than Shaka's (2-seed, S16).

Jamil made the NBA if you're counting Vander. I don't know who you're attributing Wes, Jerel and Juan to but they all played for Buzz as well.

The rest I agree with.

[HutchwasClutch]

Why are we even comparing and bringing up the Wojo years? Is that the standard for comparing ourselves to? Or should it be similar spending programs?

Shaka's results are getting more and more difficult to defend.  Hence, he's better than Wojo for crying out loud! 

[NickelDimer]

I don't ever see a day where Shaka's seat gets warm at MU. His floor is far too high for that to happen. That aside though if he wants to be considered one of the all time great MU coaches he's going to need some deep tourney runs and his early exits are hard to ignore

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Shaka's results are getting more and more difficult to defend.  Hence, he's better than Wojo for crying out loud! 

They don't need defending at all.

[Galway Eagle]

I want what we had in the Buzz years. That's where it felt like the breakthrough was coming before it came crashing down.

I worry about his stubbornness with recruiting.

This is where I'm at, right now I feel like we're basically on par with that minus the tournament.

seeds 6, 6, 11, 3, 3 avg 5.8 vs 9, 2, 2, 7 avg 5

Big East standings

5, 5, 9, 2, 1 avg 4.4 Vs 5, 1, 2, 4 avg 3

I think next year's going to be rough, and there probably needs to be some tweaks in the system long term

[brewcity77]

Jamil made the NBA if you're counting Vander. I don't know who you're attributing Wes, Jerel and Juan to but they all played for Buzz as well.

The rest I agree with.

Jamil didn't play until 2012 though.

[HutchwasClutch]

Dude, if you think that 2011 season was better than any under Shaka, you're still drunk from last night. Buzz had 5 NBA players (Jimmy, Jae, DJO, Buycks, Blue) and barely made the tourney. He had one year in his first four (2012) that was close to Shaka's years 2 & 3. But no, his best year in that span (3-seed, S16) was still not better than Shaka's (2-seed, S16).

Buycks took 2 years to make the NBA and 6 after leaving MU to play more than 14 games. Vander and DJO played a combined 17 NBA games.  Butler and Jae were 2nd rounders coming out.  No one predicted in their wildest dreams how Butler's career took off. 

The only Buzz NCAA underperformance was a two pt loss in 2010.  He won a first round game without Dominic in 2009.  His teams continued to be tough, clutch, and poised when the season hung in the balance. 

The one and only accomplishment Shaka holds over Buzz is the BET championship. 

Buzz didn't way outperform Shaka to current, but is still ahead at this juncture. 

[Galway Eagle]

Jamil didn't play until 2012 though.

Oh misread your post thought you were referencing all Buzz's NBA guys not just the 2011 ones

[HutchwasClutch]

They don't need defending at all.

Sure they do and are.  Another NCAAT underperformance will do that.  Been a long time since even close to this many Wojo references