I understand why Texas was done with Shaka

[muwarrior69]

No, little willie.  Our expectations are irrelevant.  This is a message board.  We are not the administration.  We are a bunch of dumbasses on the internet talking about basketball.  You're imploring us to have higher expectations.  What would an angrier message board do?  Do you think it would have ANY material impact on the program?  If this entire place was just bitching about our coach not being Al McGuire do you think it would solve anything?  Would you feel better?

No one likes losing, but if you can find a way to assure wins year in and year out you should probably be a coach.  You'd be undefeated, I'm sure. 

But you can't do any of those things.  You're just a dumbass on a message board along with the rest of us.

I am 78. With my years of wisdom, it is impossible for me to be a dumbass. Senile, cognitively impaired, forgetful; absolutely, but not a dumbass. After all, most here attended or graduated MU. So, we all cannot be dumbasses.

[rocky_warrior]

I am 78. With my years of wisdom, it is impossible for me to be a dumbass. Senile, cognitively impaired, forgetful; absolutely, but not a dumbass. After all, most here attended or graduated MU. So, we all cannot be dumbasses.

Plus, you've mastered teal!

[NCMUFan]

Don't see any anger at all. Too many people on this board have low expectations as evidenced by the excuses offered for this year's performance flameout. If you have higher expectations, great. So do I. But the direction does not feel right for that.

Al is a legend we all love and we would agree is the bar.
But Al was as good a salesman as he was a coach.
Marquette was an independent back then and could schedule who they wanted.
A lot of cupcakes in the schedule.
Would Al have been as successful if in a conference like the Big East?

[Billy Hoyle]

Al is a legend we all love and we would agree is the bar.
But Al was as good a salesman as he was a coach.
Marquette was an independent back then and could schedule who they wanted.
A lot of cupcakes in the schedule.
Would Al have been as successful if in a conference like the Big East?

during the 1976-77 season MU played seven teams ranked in the top 20. They played home and homes with DePaul and Bucky and finished the season with five straight road games. Not exactly "cupcake city" except for the opener against St. Leo. And during Al's tenure MU played fewer regular season games than the 31 + the BE tourney they can play these days.

[Galway Eagle]

Al is a legend we all love and we would agree is the bar.
But Al was as good a salesman as he was a coach.
Marquette was an independent back then and could schedule who they wanted.
A lot of cupcakes in the schedule.
Would Al have been as successful if in a conference like the Big East?

This peaked my curiosity so u decided to take a look. If we say that Al began his era on top when we lost in the NIT finals then here's the ranked games by year:
67: 0-0
68: 0-2 (Houston & Kentucky
69: 2-1 (Detroit, Kentucky, Purdue)
70: 0-0
71: 4-1 (Fordham, ND, MiamiOH, OSU, UK)
72: 3-2 (Marshall, USC, UM, UK, MN)
73: 3-3 (UT, Mem, MN, CSLB, IU, AP)
74: 5-2 (AZ,CSLB, ND, Vandy, UM, KU, NCST)
75: 2-2 (Ville, USC, Creighton, UK)
76: 4-1 (VATech, Ville, ND, WMU, IU)
77: 6-5 (Ville, MN, Clem, Cincy, ND. Detroit, Cincy, UM, WFU, UNCC, UNC)

Take from this what you will, but most of these happened in the tournament as well.

[Galway Eagle]

during the 1976-77 season MU played seven teams ranked in the top 20. They played home and homes with DePaul and Bucky and finished the season with five straight road games. Not exactly "cupcake city" except for the opener against St. Leo. And during Al's tenure MU played fewer regular season games than the 31 + the BE tourney they can play these days.

Bucky... the team whose only respectable year during Al was 16-8 in 74

[Billy Hoyle]

Bucky... the team whose only respectable year during Al was 16-8 in 74

rivalry games are rivalry games, especially when we were playing at the Fieldhouse once a year.

However the biggest thing about the "98 wins in four years" is that Shaka had more opportunities for wins (6 more at a minimum before the tourney). Much like offensive stats in football (especially passing yards) you really can't compare eras.

I'm not posting any of these to slag on Shaka, but the whole more wins than Al over a four year stretch thing is just what, a stretch.

[Zog from Margo]

It is a fact that Shaka's record at Texas was remarkably similar to Wojo's at MU.

That's true. Unlike Wojo, however, Shaka had a history indicating that he could do better. Shaka also obviously had a little more going on in the coconut. Another similarity is that Shaka was a bad fit for Texas just like Wojo was a bad fit for MU. I do wonder whether Wojo has any interest in coaching at the college level again. He is getting a few years removed from it and he might prefer an assistant's job in the pros.

[willie warrior]

I am 78. With my years of wisdom, it is impossible for me to be a dumbass. Senile, cognitively impaired, forgetful; absolutely, but not a dumbass. After all, most here attended or graduated MU. So, we all cannot be dumbasses.

I am glad that little Warrior recognizes he is a dumbass. He said it, I did not. And as far as what i would do to improve the team, I have stated many times what needs to be done. As far as MU grads being smart asses, I have no dog in that hunt, however there are a few here here that approach Notre Dame dumb ass status.
I want MU to compete for conference championships and natties. Make deep runs. There is not any excuse that they cant. They have the resources, They are a good University They have a stubborn coach who apparently is stuck on his philosophy, but he is a good coach that needs to change and adapt. If player agents are becoming a norm, then Shaka needs to earn his salary and deal with that issue. It does not feel that saying no to those players is taking the team where we would like it to go.

[Its DJOver]

The ones that whine and cry about not winning chips assumes that no one else wants to win chips because no one else is whining and crying about it.

Everyone's on the same page about what the goal is. Some trust Shaka to continue to have success with his methods, other's do not. Until the success consistently starts drying up, I will continue to trust Shaka.

[willie warrior]

I am 78. With my years of wisdom, it is impossible for me to be a dumbass. Senile, cognitively impaired, forgetful; absolutely, but not a dumbass. After all, most here attended or graduated MU. So, we all cannot be dumbasses.

I am glad that little Warrior recognizes he is a dumbass. He said it, I did not. And as far as what i would do to improve the team, I have stated many times what needs to be done. As far as MU grads being smart asses, I have no dog in that hunt, however there are a few here here that approach Notre Dame dumb ass status.
I want MU to compete for conference championships and natties. Make deep runs. There is not any excuse that they cant. They have the resources, They are a good University They have a stubborn coach who apparently is stuck on his philosophy, but he is a good coach that needs to change and adapt. If player agents are becoming a norm, then Shaka needs to earn his salary and deal with that issue. It does not feel that saying no to those players is taking the team where we would like it to go.

Al is a legend we all love and we would agree is the bar.
But Al was as good a salesman as he was a coach.
Marquette was an independent back then and could schedule who they wanted.
A lot of cupcakes in the schedule.
Would Al have been as successful if in a conference like the Big East?

What you said is pretty accurate. One thing Al did was to bring in studs every year. Look at that track record: Thompson, Meminger, Lee, Ellis, Mc Neil, Lucas, Walton, Tatum, Whitehead and many others, as well as complementary players. So he had a formula to build his team. He was successful. Not sure that  the team is going in right direction now. Hope Shaka gets it done, but he needs to accelerate.

[muwarrior69]

I am glad that little Warrior recognizes he is a dumbass. He said it, I did not. And as far as what i would do to improve the team, I have stated many times what needs to be done. As far as MU grads being smart asses, I have no dog in that hunt, however there are a few here here that approach Notre Dame dumb ass status.
I want MU to compete for conference championships and natties. Make deep runs. There is not any excuse that they cant. They have the resources, They are a good University They have a stubborn coach who apparently is stuck on his philosophy, but he is a good coach that needs to change and adapt. If player agents are becoming a norm, then Shaka needs to earn his salary and deal with that issue. It does not feel that saying no to those players is taking the team where we would like it to go.

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. It's the ad hominins I try to avoid and the point of my post.

[muwarrior69]

Plus, you've mastered teal!

Amazing!

[NCMUFan]

I am glad that little Warrior recognizes he is a dumbass. He said it, I did not. And as far as what i would do to improve the team, I have stated many times what needs to be done. As far as MU grads being smart asses, I have no dog in that hunt, however there are a few here here that approach Notre Dame dumb ass status.
I want MU to compete for conference championships and natties. Make deep runs. There is not any excuse that they cant. They have the resources, They are a good University They have a stubborn coach who apparently is stuck on his philosophy, but he is a good coach that needs to change and adapt. If player agents are becoming a norm, then Shaka needs to earn his salary and deal with that issue. It does not feel that saying no to those players is taking the team where we would like it to go. What you said is pretty accurate. One thing Al did was to bring in studs every year. Look at that track record: Thompson, Meminger, Lee, Ellis, Mc Neil, Lucas, Walton, Tatum, Whitehead and many others, as well as complementary players. So he had a formula to build his team. He was successful. Not sure that  the team is going in right direction now. Hope Shaka gets it done, but he needs to accelerate.

Al had phenomenal players and credit Al for being able to land them.  I just can't rate Shaka yet.  I think he is an exceptional coach.

[Galway Eagle]

rivalry games are rivalry games, especially when we were playing at the Fieldhouse once a year.

However the biggest thing about the "98 wins in four years" is that Shaka had more opportunities for wins (6 more at a minimum before the tourney). Much like offensive stats in football (especially passing yards) you really can't compare eras.

I'm not posting any of these to slag on Shaka, but the whole more wins than Al over a four year stretch thing is just what, a stretch.

By that logic we should include DePaul as a tough out twice a year because "rivalry" 

But yes I 100% agree with the other point.

[willie warrior]

By that logic we should include DePaul as a tough out twice a year because "rivalry" 

But yes I 100% agree with the other point.

Ah yes. DePaul. There was an era when they had stud teams with stud players. How they have fallen.

[Uncle Rico]

Ah yes. DePaul. There was an era when they had stud teams with stud players. How they have fallen.

When?  Were dinosaurs around?

[Billy Hoyle]

When?  Were dinosaurs around?

The Ray Meyer years in the 70s:
1973–74   DePaul   16–9   
1974–75   DePaul   15–10   
1975–76   DePaul   20–9   NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1976–77   DePaul   15–12   
1977–78   DePaul   27–3   NCAA Division I Elite Eight
1978–79   DePaul   26–6   NCAA Division I Final Four
1979–80   DePaul   26–2   NCAA Division I second round
1980–81   DePaul   27–2   NCAA Division I second round
1981–82   DePaul   26–2   NCAA Division I second round
1982–83   DePaul   21–12   NIT Runner-up
1983–84   DePaul   27–3   NCAA Division I Sweet 16

The Joey Meyer years:
1984–85   DePaul   19–10         NCAA Division I first round
1985–86   DePaul   18–13         NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1986–87   DePaul   28–3         NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1987–88   DePaul   22–8         NCAA Division I second round
1988–89   DePaul   21–12         NCAA Division I second round
1989–90   DePaul   20–15         NIT Quarterfinals
1990–91   DePaul   20–9         NCAA Division I first round
1991–92   DePaul   20–9   8–2   T–1st   NCAA Division I first round

Conference membership really hurt DePaul. They've only made the NCAA tourney three times since joining a conference (The GMC) in 1991-92 and the NIT six times since then.

[PointWarrior]

When?  Were dinosaurs around?

Before the giant took a nap...

[Uncle Rico]

The Ray Meyer years in the 70s:
1973–74   DePaul   16–9   
1974–75   DePaul   15–10   
1975–76   DePaul   20–9   NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1976–77   DePaul   15–12   
1977–78   DePaul   27–3   NCAA Division I Elite Eight
1978–79   DePaul   26–6   NCAA Division I Final Four
1979–80   DePaul   26–2   NCAA Division I second round
1980–81   DePaul   27–2   NCAA Division I second round
1981–82   DePaul   26–2   NCAA Division I second round
1982–83   DePaul   21–12   NIT Runner-up
1983–84   DePaul   27–3   NCAA Division I Sweet 16

The Joey Meyer years:
1984–85   DePaul   19–10         NCAA Division I first round
1985–86   DePaul   18–13         NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1986–87   DePaul   28–3         NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1987–88   DePaul   22–8         NCAA Division I second round
1988–89   DePaul   21–12         NCAA Division I second round
1989–90   DePaul   20–15         NIT Quarterfinals
1990–91   DePaul   20–9         NCAA Division I first round
1991–92   DePaul   20–9   8–2   T–1st   NCAA Division I first round

Conference membership really hurt DePaul. They've only made the NCAA tourney three times since joining a conference (The GMC) in 1991-92 and the NIT six times since then.

I didn't start watching college basketball until Dick Bennett got hired at Wisconsin

[willie warrior]

That's true. Unlike Wojo, however, Shaka had a history indicating that he could do better. Shaka also obviously had a little more going on in the coconut. Another similarity is that Shaka was a bad fit for Texas just like Wojo was a bad fit for MU. I do wonder whether Wojo has any interest in coaching at the college level again. He is getting a few years removed from it and he might prefer an assistant's job in the pros.

Besides, is MU still paying Wojo?

[tower912]

I didn't start watching college basketball until Dick Bennett got hired at Wisconsin

Right.  He invented the game, according to some Wiscy fans.

[Uncle Rico]

Right.  He invented the game, according to some Wiscy fans.

I've heard basketball used to be played by dentists and plumbers in the 70's and early 80's

[tower912]

At the Y.

[Scoop Snoop]

I've heard basketball used to be played by dentists and plumbers in the 70's and early 80's

They got absolutely clobbered every time they played against drywall guys on stilts.