2025-26 NFL Thread

[Pakuni]

LOL...you still don't understand how you misread it huh?

I understand the point you think you're making. It's just wrong.
Merely contemplating turning down $39.5 million from the NFL for $62,000 from the UFL is insane.
Playing a year overseas before the NBA draft had been a successful path for several players pre-LaMelo and was neither novel or nutty.
Hope that helps.

[BM1090]

I understand the point you think you're making. It's just wrong.
Merely contemplating turning down $39.5 million from the NFL for $62,000 from the UFL is insane.
Playing a year overseas before the NBA draft had been a successful path for several players pre-LaMelo and was neither novel or nutty.
Hope that helps.

Lithuania isn't Spain or Germany.

[The Sultan]

Not only that, but Big Baller sponsored a team that pulled out of the main Lithuanian league to play a bunch of games against lower level teams. Saying it was similar to a Brandon Jennings like situation is completely dishonest.

But Pak will keep digging instead of admitting defeat. It's his way.

[Pakuni]

Lithuania isn't Spain or Germany.

He also played in the NBL.
The level of competition clearly damaged LaMelo's draft standing and NBA prospects. Fell all the way to #3 in the draft and won rookie of the year. Imagine what he could have accomplished had he spent a year under Steve Alford instead.

[The Sultan]

He also played in the NBL.
The level of competition clearly damaged LaMelo's draft standing and NBA prospects. Fell all the way to #3 in the draft and won rookie of the year. Imagine what he could have accomplished had he spent a year under Steve Alford instead.

Keep shifting the goalposts.

[Pakuni]

Keep shifting the goalposts.

How am I shifting goalposts?
The idea of skipping a year of college basketball to play a year overseas isn't crazy. The idea of skipping year of the NFL to play in the UFL is very crazy.
You're free to disagree, but this isn't as nearly as hard as you're trying make it.

[The Sultan]

How am I shifting goalposts?

Because draft position was never a question. If Williams would have spent a year in the UFL with NFL free agency a year away, he would have been signed to a nice contrct in the end.

The idea of skipping a year of college basketball to play a year overseas isn't crazy.

The way the Balls did it was definitely crazy.

The idea of skipping year of the NFL to play in the UFL is very crazy.

Yes. But Williams didn't do that.

Get it now?

[Pakuni]

Yes. But Williams didn't do that.

Get it now?

Yeah, you're the one the shifting of goalposts here.
You seem to be under the impression that a crazy idea isn't actually crazy unless acted upon. Interesting theory, but wrong.
Perhaps ask ChatGPT to define "idea."

[The Sultan]

Yeah, you're the one the shifting of goalposts here.
You seem to be under the impression that a crazy idea isn't actually crazy unless acted upon. Interesting theory, but wrong.
Perhaps ask ChatGPT to define "idea."

Your original statement: "Carl Williams makes Lavar Ball seem almost reasonable."

And yes, ACTING on a crazy idea makes one less reasonable than merely CONSIDERING one. In the end, Williams chose the most reasonable idea - and yes, as crazy as it seems, being drafted to play quarterback for the Bears was the most reasonable option.

I don't believe that playing low level basketball in Lithuania was the most reasonable option for Lamelo. He overcame his father's desire to build up his family's "brand," but more reasonable options would have included played in college or playing at higher level options in Europe.

[wadesworld]

Playing for Steve Alford really hurt older son Lonzo Ball's draft status so much.

Let's be honest here. Williams was never going to play in the UFL. They "explored" it in the sense of trying to find a loophole to become a free agent the following year, but there was no loophole so the only reason he would've played in the UFL was not a possibility. It wasn't just delaying his move to the NFL until someone that isn't the Bears had the first overall pick. If that's what he was looking to do he would've gone back to USC and made millions.

It's no different than what Elway did to the Colts.

[The Sultan]

Playing for Steve Alford really hurt older son Lonzo Ball's draft status so much.

Let's be honest here. Williams was never going to play in the UFL. They "explored" it in the sense of trying to find a loophole to become a free agent the following year, but there was no loophole so the only reason he would've played in the UFL was not a possibility. It wasn't just delaying his move to the NFL until someone that isn't the Bears had the first overall pick. If that's what he was looking to do he would've gone back to USC and made millions.

It's no different than what Elway did to the Colts.

Or Manning did to the Chargers. Figuring out what leverage you have is a tale as old as time for top prospects.

[WhiteTrash]

Playing for Steve Alford really hurt older son Lonzo Ball's draft status so much.

Let's be honest here. Williams was never going to play in the UFL. They "explored" it in the sense of trying to find a loophole to become a free agent the following year, but there was no loophole so the only reason he would've played in the UFL was not a possibility. It wasn't just delaying his move to the NFL until someone that isn't the Bears had the first overall pick. If that's what he was looking to do he would've gone back to USC and made millions.

It's no different than what Elway did to the Colts.

Good points. I don't think the real story is all of Mr. Williams 'questionable' ideas, it is he and Caleb going public. I'm curious as to what the end game is.

As for LaMelo going over seas, I don't remember that being a big deal, as he was not the first, but maybe the other craziness of Ball made that appear reasonable.

But I still feel like debating, at length, who is less crazy is like having a multi page debate about who is worse in the MEAC, Maryland Eastern Shore or Coppin State; in the end they are both bad teams not of consequence.

[The Sultan]

Good points. I don't think the real story is all of Mr. Williams 'questionable' ideas, it is he and Caleb going public. I'm curious as to what the end game is.

They didn't "go public" now. It was a book written about what occurred prior to the 2024 draft.

[WhiteTrash]

They didn't "go public" now. It was a book written about what occurred prior to the 2024 draft.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it appears by the reports that the Williams participated with Wickersham in the book.

If this is all third party / hearsay reporting, I withdraw my question of their motive.

[Pakuni]

Or Manning did to the Chargers. Figuring out what leverage you have is a tale as old as time for top prospects.

Except Archie didn't look into signing his kid up with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and calling San Diego a sh*thole.
I'm not taking issue with any football dad trying to put his kid in a better situation. Good for them. I'm taking issue with Carl flirting with ideas that would have put his kid in a worse situation.

[The Sultan]

Except Archie didn't look into signing his kid up with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and calling San Diego a sh*thole.
I'm not taking issue with any football dad trying to put his kid in a better situation. Good for them. I'm taking issue with Carl flirting with ideas that would have put his kid in a worse situation.

Flirting with ideas that end up going nowhere is a nothingburger.

He was rightfully skeptical of the Bears for reasons that turned out to be 100% accurate, but in end everyone realized it was the best option. And it may be a better situation now anyway.

[The Sultan]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it appears by the reports that the Williams participated with Wickersham in the book.

If this is all third party / hearsay reporting, I withdraw my question of their motive.

I believe the quotes initially provided to him were prior to the draft.

[WhiteTrash]

I believe the quotes initially provided to him were prior to the draft.

So, he went public. I find that curious. He was aware and wanted this to go public at some point.
(Note: I never addressed the timing in my post.)

[WhiteTrash]

Flirting with ideas that end up going nowhere is a nothingburger.

"Move along. Nothing to see here" 

[Pakuni]

Flirting with ideas that end up going nowhere is a nothingburger.

I completely understand you think a bad idea that goes nowhere isn't a bad idea. I disagree.
Again, not nearly as complicated as you're trying to make it.

[GB Warrior]

I gotta say, I lost track of what you all are arguing about.

I'm curious the timing of the quotes (e.g was it before the Bears said they were drafting him no matter what?).

Ultimately I don't think it matters. If he's good (and vis a vis the team is good), no one cares. If he's meh, they're probably not getting to the promised land anyway and the fans will be happy to move on down the road. If he's good and the team is bad, well, he called his shot early and was right.

My guess is he holds an inordinate amount of sway within the organization for an unproven, first contract QB. And these quotes and this story serves as a good reminder to the Bears brass of that

[The Sultan]

So, he went public. I find that curious. He was aware and wanted this to go public at some point.
(Note: I never addressed the timing in my post.)

Well you said "what the end game is," which makes it sound current. I don't think there is an end game now. I think the end game then was to keep Caleb from going to the Bears.

[WhiteTrash]

Well you said "what the end game is," which makes it sound current. I don't think there is an end game now. I think the end game then was to keep Caleb from going to the Bears.

The end game of going public in a book to be released after the draft was to keep Caleb from going to the Bears?

I don't even know what to say about that.

[The Sultan]

The end game of going public in a book to be released after the draft was to keep Caleb from going to the Bears?

I don't even know what to say about that.

???  Wickersham is writing a book about last year. Williams isn't.

[Pakuni]

I gotta say, I lost track of what you all are arguing about.

I'm curious the timing of the quotes (e.g was it before the Bears said they were drafting him no matter what?).

Ultimately I don't think it matters. If he's good (and vis a vis the team is good), no one cares. If he's meh, they're probably not getting to the promised land anyway and the fans will be happy to move on down the road. If he's good and the team is bad, well, he called his shot early and was right.

My guess is he holds an inordinate amount of sway within the organization for an unproven, first contract QB. And these quotes and this story serves as a good reminder to the Bears brass of that

Yes, like a lot of Scoop arguments, this one is very dumb and semantical.

As for whether this matters for Williams ... it depends.
If he plays like the guy the Bears drafted him to be, it'll be soon forgotten.
If he doesn't, I think the fanbase will turn on him way harder and faster than they did Trubisky or Fields. A not insignificant portion of Bears fans were still very much in Fields' corner to the bitter end (some of them here), after all.
Whether that would matter to or affect Williams, I have no idea. I don't think many athletes enjoy being booed at home, or thrive under those circumstances, but maybe Williams is different.