MU culture

[Scoop Snoop]

And Texas had his replacement lined up.

Yep. Worked out for a while, but then....

[Hards Alumni]

Yep. Worked out for a while, but then....

Yeah Beard was tough to beat that year and a half.

Well... you know the rest.

[JakeBarnes]

Yeah Beard was tough to beat that year and a half.

Well... you know the rest.

He choked.

[Scoop Snoop]

He choked her.

FIFY

[1SE]

MU waited for 12 yrs with Al, how long are we willing to wait?

Hypothetically, what if Shaka coaches at Marquette another 20 seasons and never makes a Final Four? But wins more Big East titles, BET titles, and gets to the Elite 8 a couple times. Would that allow him to "earn" retirement on his terms in your mind?

What if he is Gene Keady? Or John Chaney? Legendary, program defining coaches to never make a Final Four. Is that not satisfactory?

Is Mark Few a successful coach?

I'd definitely wait 9 for the championship game and 12 for the title.

And different era - but we were basically at the top table from year 3.

I think part of the rub is that Shaka is on an almost Al-like trajectory - and Al could have (and did) stay as long as he wanted to - that's what it takes. I want Shaka to have Al-success or Rupp, or Wooden, or K or Wright or Hurley or Few (but honestly - if he never cuts down the nets will he be considered one of the greats?). I want Shaka to be one of the all-time greats. I don't want having "good enough that 340 of the DI teams would die for"

I think Shaka can get there - but in that echelon there is very little margin for error. Mark Few has never missed the tournament. Jay Wright had 2 S16s (years 4 and 6), an E8 (in year 5) and a FF (in year 7) when 2011 happened. Hurley - well if you win back to back titles in years 5 and 6 you've punched the ticket.

We still have it all to play for this year - but a second round exit would be a disappointment. A first round exit would be a major regression.

[Jay Bee]

They wanted a truly hands-on coach

Wasn't bro a biter too?

[1SE]

I simply don't understand fans like that. If you can't enjoy the journey, sports is usually pretty miserable since there is only one champion at the end.

And I simply don't understand fans who are just happy that both teams tried their hardest and everyone had a fun time.

I'm too young for the Al days, but I was in Minneapolis and it was the single greatest sporting experience of my life. I was also in New Orleans and it was the single biggest gut punch of a sporting experience of my life.

But hey - some of us live for the dizzying highs and the terrifying lows. Others of us are the so-called "sweater vests" who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and live for the creamy middles. It takes all types.
 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

And I simply don't understand fans who are just happy that both teams tried their hardest and everyone had a fun time.

I'm too young for the Al days, but I was in Minneapolis and it was the single greatest sporting experience of my life. I was also in New Orleans and it was the single biggest gut punch of a sporting experience of my life.

But hey - some of us live for the dizzying highs and the terrifying lows. Others of us are the so-called "sweater vests" who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and live for the creamy middles. It takes all types.
 

You do realize that people can enjoy the journey and it's importance without minimizing tournament success, right?  It's certainly not an either-or scenario like you described. 

The recent losses to MSU, and especially NC State (I think we beat Duke if we played them) were absolute gut punches but that certainly didn't ruin how awesome they entirety of both of those seasons were.

[1SE]

You do realize that people can enjoy the journey and it's importance without minimizing tournament success, right?  It's certainly not an either-or scenario like you described. 

The recent losses to MSU, and especially NC State (I think we beat Duke if we played them) were absolute gut punches but that certainly didn't ruin how awesome they entirety of both of those seasons were.

I described nothing as an either-or - I've been consistently saying that everyone can have their own metric for success.

And for me - the losses to MSU (and especially NC State) did significantly diminish how awesome the season was for me - I also had fun along the way (I always have fun when we win - and it always sucks when we lose) - but in terms of how I feel overall about those seasons, yes, significantly worse than I would have if we had cut down the nets.

If you think you can have a great season while bowing out as a 2 seed in the second round more power to you - it's great that that's your metric - but it's not mine.

[Hards Alumni]

I described nothing as an either-or - I've been consistently saying that everyone can have their own metric for success.

And for me - the losses to MSU (and especially NC State) did significantly diminish how awesome the season was for me - I also had fun along the way (I always have fun when we win - and it always sucks when we lose) - but in terms of how I feel overall about those seasons, yes, significantly worse than I would have if we had cut down the nets.

If you think you can have a great season while bowing out as a 2 seed in the second round more power to you - it's great that that's your metric - but it's not mine.

Are you willie's son?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I described nothing as an either-or - I've been consistently saying that everyone can have their own metric for success.

And for me - the losses to MSU (and especially NC State) did significantly diminish how awesome the season was for me - I also had fun along the way (I always have fun when we win - and it always sucks when we lose) - but in terms of how I feel overall about those seasons, yes, significantly worse than I would have if we had cut down the nets.

If you think you can have a great season while bowing out as a 2 seed in the second round more power to you - it's great that that's your metric - but it's not mine.

This is absolutely framed as one or the other:

But hey - some of us live for the dizzying highs and the terrifying lows. Others of us are the so-called "sweater vests" who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and live for the creamy middles.

I was also not around or the Al years and was not fortunate enough to be in Minneapolis but I was in New Orleans to watch us get destroyed. 

You do you but I just think having some additional perspective and context helps, otherwise it feels like it would consistently miserable experience to look at it through that lens. 

[Uncle Rico]

Are you willie's son?

No, he can spell, punctuate and articulate himself without referring to any players as dung or having parts of their bodies inserted into various anuses.

[MU82]

You do realize that people can enjoy the journey and it's importance without minimizing tournament success, right?  It's certainly not an either-or scenario like you described. 

The recent losses to MSU, and especially NC State (I think we beat Duke if we played them) were absolute gut punches but that certainly didn't ruin how awesome they entirety of both of those seasons were.

Yep. 1SE approaches this as if fans go into a season with a choice of regular-season success or a Final Four.

This just in: It's not one of your polls; we don't get to choose.

I have thoroughly enjoyed Shaka's nearly 4 full seasons as Marquette's coach. Energy has returned to the program; we are respected nationally again; it's fun that some of my MU buddies who checked out during the Wojo years are really into Marquette hoops again (and they love reminding me that I stuck by Wojo for too long and that I was an early Shaka skeptic); it's fun to have something on the line every time we play; it's fun that the team has won the vast majority of those games.

Hearing 4-star recruits say that they selected Marquette over many other good options because of the culture Shaka has built really makes me feel good about where we're at.

That doesn't mean these nearly 4 seasons have been frustration-free. (I yell at the TV during games plenty.) That doesn't mean I'm "fine" with losing in the NCAAT. (I was grumpy for days after that loss to NC State.) That doesn't mean my desire for the program to succeed at the highest level is lower than that of other MU fans. (We all want to win - a lot.)

Shaka's been a gift to Marquette University, and I like to think our alma mater has been damn good for him, too. The idea that he somehow hasn't succeeded and/or that we easily could do better ... I have a lot of trouble buying that.

[Scoop Snoop]

I would describe 1SE's choice as either/or, even though he does not.

Either you watch 31 games in our regular season plus at least one in the BET and at least one in the NCAA. OR you watch 1-2, maybe 3 based upon Shaka's history at Marquette (1SE's choice).

Even with a 6-0 run and a natty, enjoy the 30-some some games before the NCAA.

[The Sultan]

And I simply don't understand fans who are just happy that both teams tried their hardest and everyone had a fun time. 

Of course I never said that. Never even implied it.

My point is that I can find joy out of a season that doesn't end the way everyone wants it to end. I loved the Big East and BET titles two years ago even though I was disappointed at losing to MSU. In no way did I view the overall season as a failure, or even a disappointment, because of the final game. Life's too short for that nonsense.

[PJDunn]

Performance in the NCAA tourney defines both the team and the coach. Winning one's conference is like getting a participant's ribbon. That may not be a popular opinion on scoop, but it is the reality of college bball.

[The Sultan]

Performance in the NCAA tourney defines both the team and the coach. Winning one's conference is like getting a participant's ribbon. That may not be a popular opinion on scoop, but it is the reality of college bball.

According to whom?

Again, Gene Keady is in the Basketball Hall of Fame. 6 time national coach of the year. Wooden Award winner. If Shaka mirrored his success at Marquette, I would be thrilled. 

But he didn't make a final four...so I guess he sucks.

[dgies9156]

Performance in the NCAA tourney defines both the team and the coach. Winning one's conference is like getting a participant's ribbon. That may not be a popular opinion on scoop, but it is the reality of college bball.

I agree.

What makes us special is we do have a Natty. Of the 300 or so schools that play Division 1 basketball, comparatively few of them have a basketball Natty.

The purpose of basketball is to project an image for a university, thereby attracting more interest and, ultimately, more students. Not to mention more money from generous alumni and, potentially profitable basketball operations.

In the long-run, who cares if you won the Big East? It's nice and should be a goal but THE GOAL is to go deep and even WIN an NCAA. What do you think people remember us for. A Big East title a few years back? Or the times went we went deep in the NCAA?

Forget this COLE nonsense. I want a Natty!

[wadesworld]

I agree.

What makes us special is we do have a Natty. Of the 300 or so schools that play Division 1 basketball, comparatively few of them have a basketball Natty.

The purpose of basketball is to project an image for a university, thereby attracting more interest and, ultimately, more students. Not to mention more money from generous alumni and, potentially profitable basketball operations.

In the long-run, who cares if you won the Big East? It's nice and should be a goal but THE GOAL is to go deep and even WIN an NCAA. What do you think people remember us for. A Big East title a few years back? Or the times went we went deep in the NCAA?

Forget this COLE nonsense. I want a Natty!

People definitely remember who wins the BE regular season and BE Tournament more than they remember any kind of NCAA Tournament that ends before a Final Four.

I'd personally rank them in importance as:

1) NCAA Title
2) Title appearance
3) Final Four
4) Elite 8
5) Big East regular season title
6) Sweet 16
7) Big East tournament title
8) 2nd round appearance
9) Making the Tourney

But that's my personal ranking of importance.  What people remember, Final Four is the needle mover.  Conference champions in general are much more memorable.

[The Sultan]

It's nice and should be a goal but THE GOAL is to go deep and even WIN an NCAA.

Undoubtedly. No one has stated otherwise.

[MuMark]

Either you win it all or you're a loser!

Seems like a really great way to enjoy a hobby..........

Yeah I'll pass on the "NCAA tournament is all that matters" philosophy of fandom.

[tower912]

Unless you are tOSU.  Then natties don't matter if you lose to Michigan.

[1SE]

People definitely remember who wins the BE regular season and BE Tournament more than they remember any kind of NCAA Tournament that ends before a Final Four.

I'd personally rank them in importance as:

1) NCAA Title
2) Title appearance
3) Final Four
4) Elite 8
5) Big East regular season title
6) Sweet 16
7) Big East tournament title
8) 2nd round appearance
9) Making the Tourney

But that's my personal ranking of importance.  What people remember, Final Four is the needle mover.  Conference champions in general are much more memorable.

I think this is a reasonable enough valuation - but the conference musical chairs devalues conference accolades for me. When our conference foes change every couple years it's hard to build the rivalries that would make winning the conference matter.

[Scoop Snoop]

Dgies, I get that the goal is always a natty and we have one. Ours will be 48 years old this Spring, and in between then and now we have had some nice runs. I was there during the Al years, and as much as he did to put Marquette on the map, our identity today is Shaka Smart and Tyler Kolek's and Kam's names among others are associated with Marquette.

Did I just commit heresy? Will the Lord smite me? He just might if Jaques Marquette asks him to.

I remember the feeling I had when we won the natty but cannot find the words to do it justice. But to me, the regular season blends into the BET, which blends into the NCAA. The natty is the grand prize. I hope we win another natty before I croak, but I'll enjoy the ride along the way regardless. 

[Newsdreams]

Unless you are tOSU.  Then natties don't matter if you lose to Michigan.

Well if MU wins a championship this year people here will still be bitching about the Dayton loss and saying that made it a disappointing season, book it.